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    (Original post by Aph)
    having more female prime ministers isn't a measure of gender equality.

    :eek: citation?
    The loan system is no less generous than a decade ago, women are simply being smart.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    having more female prime ministers isn't a measure of gender equality.


    :eek: citation?
    Do you mind reminding me later? On mobile right now
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    The loan system is no less generous than a decade ago, women are simply being smart.
    I'd argue that in effect it is. The loan system relies on most families being able to help support their child at university. There are fewer able to do so today than there were in 2006, and if you're from such a family you're utterly screwed by the student loan system. What's more, while the loans are for roughly the same amount, they haven't caught up with increasing accommodation costs which are crippling for many students. Finally, although it's gone largely unnoticed, support for the poorest students has drastically decreased in the last couple of years - most used to give out decent sized grants voluntarily which were then replaced by the National Scholarship Scheme, but haven't been reinstated since that was scrapped.
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    In regards to loans my own experience is I am having to find £500 extra on top of my loan for both my first two terms just to cover rent, and that is before I think about books, transport, food, not even consider leisure such as drinking, social events, gigs ect. My parents have two kids both going to uni next week and a 10 year old who is starting secondary school next year, on top of a mortgage, a big long term loan and increasing costs despite having had a 1% pay freeze for 5 years. But my loan doesn't take into any consideration of that, effectively expected my parents to be able to pay for me while I am at university. Thankfully a friend I made through labour works for the student uni so I should be able to get a job and I have a £500 overdraft for term one which goes up to £1,000 for term two, but that means I am relying on fortune of getting a job (where everywhere I have tried isn't interested in employing students) and on bank overdrafts.

    My own experience as I said, but one the vast majority of my uni going friends are also in.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    In regards to loans my own experience is I am having to find £500 extra on top of my loan for both my first two terms just to cover rent, and that is before I think about books, transport, food, not even consider leisure such as drinking, social events, gigs ect. My parents have two kids both going to uni next week and a 10 year old who is starting secondary school next year, on top of a mortgage, a big long term loan and increasing costs despite having had a 1% pay freeze for 5 years. But my loan doesn't take into any consideration of that, effectively expected my parents to be able to pay for me while I am at university. Thankfully a friend I made through labour works for the student uni so I should be able to get a job and I have a £500 overdraft for term one which goes up to £1,000 for term two, but that means I am relying on fortune of getting a job (where everywhere I have tried isn't interested in employing students) and on bank overdrafts.

    My own experience as I said, but one the vast majority of my uni going friends are also in.
    Are you in halls, my experience is that your willingly impoverishing yourself is so.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    The Conservative Party who've closed SureStart centres that helped millions of mothers? The Conservative Party who've made getting by so hard for students that one in ten female undergraduates are resorting to sex work? The Conservative Party who've presided over an economy where the traditional family structure is nothing more but a distant memory, and the vast majority of women now have to work at least part-time in addition to raising their children and running the house? I couldn't care less that they've made two women Prime Minister, when both those Prime Ministers have made life harder for women whether they're studying, working or raising children. That isn't progress on gender equality, it certainly isn't feminism, it's an ugly tokenism that distracts from the very real issues we face in our day-to-day lives.
    So women making the most of their assets through their own free will is a bad thing to be blamed on the government? Or is it only that one in ten that are so hard off, I really wouldn't be surprised if they were some of the better off that just wanted a bit more money, but then again, clearly the best part of ten grand isn't enough...

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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    In regards to loans my own experience is I am having to find £500 extra on top of my loan for both my first two terms just to cover rent, and that is before I think about books, transport, food, not even consider leisure such as drinking, social events, gigs ect. My parents have two kids both going to uni next week and a 10 year old who is starting secondary school next year, on top of a mortgage, a big long term loan and increasing costs despite having had a 1% pay freeze for 5 years. But my loan doesn't take into any consideration of that, effectively expected my parents to be able to pay for me while I am at university. Thankfully a friend I made through labour works for the student uni so I should be able to get a job and I have a £500 overdraft for term one which goes up to £1,000 for term two, but that means I am relying on fortune of getting a job (where everywhere I have tried isn't interested in employing students) and on bank overdrafts.

    My own experience as I said, but one the vast majority of my uni going friends are also in.
    It's a ridiculous situation and all too common Only two things I would say practically. First, try to look for a job early on - plenty of students leave it till October once things have calmed down, there's definitely an advantage to being an early bird in that regard. Secondly, you could look at moving banks for a better loan - when I started out the co-operative gave me their standard overdraft for a first year of £1,400 despite no credit history at all, so maybe give them a try Hope you get through it alright in the end!
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So women making the most of their assets through their own free will is a bad thing to be blamed on the government? Or is it only that one in ten that are so hard off, I really wouldn't be surprised if they were some of the better off that just wanted a bit more money, but then again, clearly the best part of ten grand isn't enough...

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    Not necessarily, to be fair - I'm very much a liberal when it comes to sex work (as with most things) and where women or indeed anyone else genuinely wants to do it, all power to them. But when it's people in a similar financial situation to what Kay described who don't feel at all comfortable with it, but see little choice between accepting a job that is in a legal grey area, often dangerous and for many deeply dehumanising and dropping out of education, that isn't right at all.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    In regards to loans my own experience is I am having to find £500 extra on top of my loan for both my first two terms just to cover rent, and that is before I think about books, transport, food, not even consider leisure such as drinking, social events, gigs ect. My parents have two kids both going to uni next week and a 10 year old who is starting secondary school next year, on top of a mortgage, a big long term loan and increasing costs despite having had a 1% pay freeze for 5 years. But my loan doesn't take into any consideration of that, effectively expected my parents to be able to pay for me while I am at university. Thankfully a friend I made through labour works for the student uni so I should be able to get a job and I have a £500 overdraft for term one which goes up to £1,000 for term two, but that means I am relying on fortune of getting a job (where everywhere I have tried isn't interested in employing students) and on bank overdrafts.

    My own experience as I said, but one the vast majority of my uni going friends are also in.
    How on earth have you managed that I only applied to unis where I would be £2k better off s year if not more...
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    In regards to loans my own experience is I am having to find £500 extra on top of my loan for both my first two terms just to cover rent, and that is before I think about books, transport, food, not even consider leisure such as drinking, social events, gigs ect. My parents have two kids both going to uni next week and a 10 year old who is starting secondary school next year, on top of a mortgage, a big long term loan and increasing costs despite having had a 1% pay freeze for 5 years. But my loan doesn't take into any consideration of that, effectively expected my parents to be able to pay for me while I am at university. Thankfully a friend I made through labour works for the student uni so I should be able to get a job and I have a £500 overdraft for term one which goes up to £1,000 for term two, but that means I am relying on fortune of getting a job (where everywhere I have tried isn't interested in employing students) and on bank overdrafts.

    My own experience as I said, but one the vast majority of my uni going friends are also in.
    You could have put off going to uni for a couple of years and got a job to save up some money of your own, rather than relying on the taxpayer and your parents to fund it all for you.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Are you in halls, my experience is that your willingly impoverishing yourself is so.
    I am in halls yes, the rent most places were looking for in shared housing would have been even higher

    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    It's a ridiculous situation and all too common Only two things I would say practically. First, try to look for a job early on - plenty of students leave it till October once things have calmed down, there's definitely an advantage to being an early bird in that regard. Secondly, you could look at moving banks for a better loan - when I started out the co-operative gave me their standard overdraft for a first year of £1,400 despite no credit history at all, so maybe give them a try Hope you get through it alright in the end!
    My bank starts me of at £500, but I can increase it by £500 each term so should even if I have to rely on that be okay, just hoping I get a job with the union early on. Sadly as you said it is too common

    (Original post by Aph)
    How on earth have you managed that I only applied to unis where I would be £2k better off s year if not more...
    Everywhere I applied I would have been this bad off unless I stayed at home for uni.

    (Original post by #ChaosKass)
    You could have put off going to uni for a couple of years and got a job to save up some money of your own, rather than relying on the taxpayer and your parents to fund it all for you.
    The point of going to uni is to qualify and get a job, unless I have missed something. Also if you had read my post you will have seen I plan to work during my time at uni, as my parents can't afford to fund it for me, and I wouldn't want them to even if they could. Unfortunately everywhere I have applied since last September has turned me down, the vast majority (talking over 90%) as I was in full time education and couldn't be flexible enough for them.
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    Yeah, I'm living off a bank loan next year. Middle class but parental funding scheme cut.

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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Do you mind reminding me later? On mobile right now

    I'd argue that in effect it is. The loan system relies on most families being able to help support their child at university. There are fewer able to do so today than there were in 2006, and if you're from such a family you're utterly screwed by the student loan system. What's more, while the loans are for roughly the same amount, they haven't caught up with increasing accommodation costs which are crippling for many students. Finally, although it's gone largely unnoticed, support for the poorest students has drastically decreased in the last couple of years - most used to give out decent sized grants voluntarily which were then replaced by the National Scholarship Scheme, but haven't been reinstated since that was scrapped.
    Really I come from a low income household get no extra help and my budget leaves £80 a week after food rent travel and my mobile.
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    (Original post by #ChaosKass)
    You could have put off going to uni for a couple of years and got a job to save up some money of your own, rather than relying on the taxpayer and your parents to fund it all for you.
    No, not really. Hard to get a job before university. My job (local) was paying £3.50 per hour, a min wage job I applied for offered only 15hrs per week. Including living and rent costs it would take ages to alternatively fund.

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    No, not really. Hard to get a job before university. My job (local) was paying £3.50 per hour, a min wage job I applied for offered only 15hrs per week. Including living and rent costs it would take ages to alternatively fund.

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    Only £3.50 an hour I'm 19 and on 7.82
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    (Original post by Tory Dan)
    What sort of cake do you like?
    Fruit cake
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    (Original post by niteninja1)
    Really I come from a low income household get no extra help and my budget leaves £80 a week after food rent travel and my mobile.
    Low-income households actually aren't the biggest problem here - the financial support for them is good enough that in most cases students are able to cope financially. The problem is for those from middle-class households earning too much to qualify for enough government support, but whose parents don't earn enough to help them while they're away.

    (Original post by #ChaosKass)
    You could have put off going to uni for a couple of years and got a job to save up some money of your own, rather than relying on the taxpayer and your parents to fund it all for you.
    Here's the thing. For a lot of people, living at home isn't an option - their parents plan to downsize, move a younger sibling into the room or rent it out. Coming out of college with only academic qualifications, you're unlikely to find a job on much more than the minimum wage - if you have to pay for your own accommodation and living costs, it's impossible to save enough to fund a degree. And here's the killer - even if you DO manage it, say if your parents are kind enough to let you stay at home in return for some financial contribution, the amount you earn then gets added to your household income when you apply for student finance, and you therefore just get less in loans! The system is set up in such a way that parents are expected to contribute where they're often not able to, and in many cases it's near-impossible to get around that if they can't.

    But just to play the devil's advocate, let's say that it was possible to work solidly for two years and save enough to go to uni. What's really achieved by that? For the first two years of their adult life, we're telling some of the most talented young people in the country to go and do menial work, when the alternative is that we have a sensible funding system that lets them go to uni straight away and then spend those two years afterwards in a graduate job. A job where they'd be fuelling the economy by spending far more, paying into the state through far higher taxes, starting their pension funds two years earlier! A system that forces these people to waste two years doing work far below that of which they're capable so they can afford the education they need to realise their talent is utterly insane. It's not just them that's worse off for it, it's everyone.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    I am in halls yes, the rent most places were looking for in shared housing would have been even higher

    My bank starts me of at £500, but I can increase it by £500 each term so should even if I have to rely on that be okay, just hoping I get a job with the union early on. Sadly as you said it is too common

    Everywhere I applied I would have been this bad off unless I stayed at home for uni.

    The point of going to uni is to qualify and get a job, unless I have missed something. Also if you had read my post you will have seen I plan to work during my time at uni, as my parents can't afford to fund it for me, and I wouldn't want them to even if they could. Unfortunately everywhere I have applied since last September has turned me down, the vast majority (talking over 90%) as I was in full time education and couldn't be flexible enough for them.
    I'm guessing your in London? Here in Leeds i paid about half what i did in halls by going private in second and third years (rent was something like £240 bill inc) and i know the story was similar for Manchster and Nottingham.

    (Original post by niteninja1)
    Really I come from a low income household get no extra help and my budget leaves £80 a week after food rent travel and my mobile.
    Same. I had about £8k in third year with accommodation costs of about £2.5k.

    In hindsight i calculated that had i actually worked during university, i could have left with savings of about £10k.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Low-income households actually aren't the biggest problem here - the financial support for them is good enough that in most cases students are able to cope financially. The problem is for those from middle-class households earning too much to qualify for enough government support, but whose parents don't earn enough to help them while they're away.

    Here's the thing. For a lot of people, living at home isn't an option - their parents plan to downsize, move a younger sibling into the room or rent it out. Coming out of college with only academic qualifications, you're unlikely to find a job on much more than the minimum wage - if you have to pay for your own accommodation and living costs, it's impossible to save enough to fund a degree. And here's the killer - even if you DO manage it, say if your parents are kind enough to let you stay at home in return for some financial contribution, the amount you earn then gets added to your household income when you apply for student finance, and you therefore just get less in loans! The system is set up in such a way that parents are expected to contribute where they're often not able to, and in many cases it's near-impossible to get around that if they can't.

    But just to play the devil's advocate, let's say that it was possible to work solidly for two years and save enough to go to uni. What's really achieved by that? For the first two years of their adult life, we're telling some of the most talented young people in the country to go and do menial work, when the alternative is that we have a sensible funding system that lets them go to uni straight away and then spend those two years afterwards in a graduate job. A job where they'd be fuelling the economy by spending far more, paying into the state through far higher taxes, starting their pension funds two years earlier! A system that forces these people to waste two years doing work far below that of which they're capable so they can afford the education they need to realise their talent is utterly insane. It's not just them that's worse off for it, it's everyone.
    Regarding your final point i find that a false equivalency since most people have the option to work during university (i'll grant you that a minority of courses will prevent that) and further that working part time does not significantly impact grades until you start packing 20+ hours per week in.
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    During my BTEC (worth 3 a levels ) I worked 39 hours a week and still got the maximum grade.

    As for budgeting it is easy
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    (Original post by niteninja1)
    Only £3.50 an hour I'm 19 and on 7.82
    Wow, gold star for you.

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