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    (Original post by Afcwimbledon2)
    Both.
    Fsh, no.
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    Something quite important to me seeing as I made a handsome living from online poker for a couple of years - what is the socialist parties view on gambling? Do you find it unethical? Should gambling winnings be taxed (chance casino games, poker (if you don't think this is a skill game please gtfo), lottery etc)? Would you support more government regulation of gambling (bans or partial bans, such as the US in which gambling is illegal in most of the state and where recent regulation banned US citizens from making credit card deposits onto online poker sites)?
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    (Original post by Jay Riall)
    Something quite important to me seeing as I made a handsome living from online poker for a couple of years - what is the socialist parties view on gambling? Do you find it unethical? Should gambling winnings be taxed (chance casino games, poker (if you don't think this is a skill game please gtfo), lottery etc)? Would you support more government regulation of gambling (bans or partial bans, such as the US in which gambling is illegal in most of the state and where recent regulation banned US citizens from making credit card deposits onto online poker sites)?
    I personally don't have much of an opinion. It would seem logical that you should get taxed on it, but that's about the extent of my opinion...
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    (Original post by Jay Riall)
    Something quite important to me seeing as I made a handsome living from online poker for a couple of years - what is the socialist parties view on gambling? Do you find it unethical? Should gambling winnings be taxed (chance casino games, poker (if you don't think this is a skill game please gtfo), lottery etc)? Would you support more government regulation of gambling (bans or partial bans, such as the US in which gambling is illegal in most of the state and where recent regulation banned US citizens from making credit card deposits onto online poker sites)?
    Gambling is historically a firm part of working-class male culture and part of thesreason it is banned is because of middle-class reformist desires which see gambling as part of that trio of badness which lends itself to poverty: sexual incontinence, laziness, and gambling (included in this would be drinking). Now, whilst I see gambling as potentially dangerous and it does have - if it goes seriously wrong - quite bad outcomes for families and the individuals involved but ultimately it is better to have tried and be taxed, than never to have been taxed at all :p:

    I'm uncomfortable with online gambling sites because of their potential links to crime syndicates and other rather less savoury pastimes so I would advocate curtailment of those avenues but gambling per se on the high street or in casinos (properly licenced of course) is much less problematic.

    Does that make sense?
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    Why do you lot hate freedom?
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    Probably not the same reasons you do, Seven_Three.
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    Look at the second quote in my sig - Russell sums it up far better than I could.
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    (Original post by Seven_Three)
    Why do you lot hate freedom?
    Just a tad ironic coming from mr. "segregate ethnic groups and surpress communists!", don't you think?
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    (Original post by TheFriendlySocialist)
    Look at the second quote in my sig - Russell sums it up far better than I could.
    Not really, beacuse how is someone having more money than you 'tyranny'? Bill Gates doesn't oppress you does he?

    (Original post by Gremlins)
    Just a tad ironic coming from mr. "segregate ethnic groups and surpress communists!", don't you think?
    No I don't hate freedom I just don't think it is the overridingly important thing.
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    (Original post by Seven_Three)
    Not really, beacuse how is someone having more money than you 'tyranny'? Bill Gates doesn't oppress you does he?
    His class does. The rich, or more important - the middle class managerial classes ensure that the system the world is ordered by continues to be a system that benefits their class...
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    (Original post by Alasdair)
    His class does. The rich, or more important - the middle class managerial classes ensure that the system the world is ordered by continues to be a system that benefits their class...
    Class? What is a 'class'? He still ain't oppressing you with money.
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    (Original post by Seven_Three)
    Class? What is a 'class'? He still ain't oppressing you with money.
    It's not about individuals at this level - there's a capitalist managerial class that basically runs the system of the world. That's not to say there's some kind of Bilderberg Group sort of conspiracy running the world, but rather that people who make the rules are of a certain type and from a certain background, and that they act to maintain a system that favours their class.

    As for what a class is, I suggest a good dictionary.
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    (Original post by Alasdair)
    It's not about individuals at this level - there's a capitalist managerial class that basically runs the system of the world. That's not to say there's some kind of Bilderberg Group sort of conspiracy running the world, but rather that people who make the rules are of a certain type and from a certain background, and that they act to maintain a system that favours their class.

    As for what a class is, I suggest a good dictionary.
    So what is this mythical class that controlls the world and keeps the proletariate down in an enormous global conspiracy?

    I know the English definition of class. It is socialists you seem to apply it willy nilly to anything and everything to make their case. You can't just go, 'They are a class, therefore they are a class'. How are you defining class?
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    (Original post by Thunder and Jazz)
    Well, either way it wouldn't be a bill. It would have to be a VoNC or a petition to Brown IRL (or a coup and get the new leader to call one). On TSR, there's no Governemnt so you'ld have to convince Dayne to call it.
    I would still accept a VoNC in the government. If it passed I would call a GE.
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    I would still accept a VoNC in the government. If it passed I would call a GE.
    Well, he'd need to pass two things. One would be a VonC in the government. The second would be a Motion calling for a General Election in RL.
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    (Original post by Alasdair)
    Well, he'd need to pass two things. One would be a VonC in the government. The second would be a Motion calling for a General Election in RL.
    On here though a VoNC in the government will do. If that passed we would have a GE. seems fairly pointless to me though as the real TSR GE is getting fairly close now anyway. As their is no government though I will either call it on 31st October, or if the two coalition leaders agreed and asked me to call it sooner I would do so in place of the government calling it.
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    (Original post by Alasdair)
    It's not about individuals at this level - there's a capitalist managerial class that basically runs the system of the world. That's not to say there's some kind of Bilderberg Group sort of conspiracy running the world, but rather that people who make the rules are of a certain type and from a certain background, and that they act to maintain a system that favours their class.

    As for what a class is, I suggest a good dictionary.
    You know if you have the drive and ability theres nothing stopping you joining this class, look at Richard Branson or to be even more populist the Dragons from Dragon's Den, anything is possible if you put your mind to it.

    See this is the difference between the right and the left, the right promotes the idea of hard work and innovation improving your life and living standards, the left meanwhile is jealous of anyone who's done well for themselves and wants to pull them down and promote the working class and level them out somewhere in the middle, which stifles any kind of innovation or desire to achieve within people.

    At least Blair and Brown realised there is nothing inherantly wrong with being middle or upper class and actually promoted social mobility, using the taxes gained off those high earners to help the working class, but keeping the taxation levels low so as not to stifle the economy, which is exactly how it should be, rather than this tired class warfare nonsense and trying to drag the middle and upper classes down.

    And before you jump on me as some kind of reactionary middle class arch tory, I'm working class from a single parent family who lived off state benefits until I was 15, so I'm not insulting the working class, merely this flawed ideology that rather than encouraging them and letting the wealth trickle down via an improved economy and greater taxation revenues, attacks the well off.
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    On here though a VoNC in the government will do. If that passed we would have a GE. seems fairly pointless to me though as the real TSR GE is getting fairly close now anyway. As their is no government though I will either call it on 31st October, or if the two coalition leaders agreed and asked me to call it sooner I would do so in place of the government calling it.
    Well, I meant in relation to the 'both' answer AFC gave...
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    And before you jump on me as some kind of reactionary middle class arch tory, I'm working class from a single parent family who lived off state benefits until I was 15, so I'm not insulting the working class, merely this flawed ideology that rather than encouraging them and letting the wealth trickle down via an improved economy and greater taxation revenues, attacks the well off.
    I have only one problem with all of that: "letting the wealth trickle down". It simply doesn't trickle down. There is a bottleneck in the distribution of wealth and it stops with the lower middle classes. Very little of the nation's wealth - except that which is pushed down with redistribution - goes below that socio-economic group. If it did go all the way to the bottom, we'd all be Tories.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    You know if you have the drive and ability theres nothing stopping you joining this class, look at Richard Branson or to be even more populist the Dragons from Dragon's Den, anything is possible if you put your mind to it.
    That doesn't make it any better, you know. As Gerald Cohen would have said, there's nothing wrong with wanting to rise with your class rather than above it.

    See this is the difference between the right and the left, the right promotes the idea of hard work and innovation improving your life and living standards,
    No it doesn't, the right promotes laissez-faire economics which doesn't necessarily mean any of the above, and it's not like wealth is massively linked to hard work anyway - what's more important is how much your labour sells for (unless you're a capitalist), of which how hard you work is only one component. Saying people should be remunerated for the effort they put in and sacrifices they make during their work has traditionally been a left-wing thing; people doing manual labour and the like work bloody hard, but are paid significantly less than white-collar workers.

    At least Blair and Brown realised there is nothing inherantly wrong with being middle or upper class and actually promoted social mobility, using the taxes gained off those high earners to help the working class, but keeping the taxation levels low so as not to stifle the economy, which is exactly how it should be, rather than this tired class warfare nonsense and trying to drag the middle and upper classes down.
    Yes, they carried on neoliberal economic policies, and look where *that's* got us.
 
 
 
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