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Hate speech = Free speech watch

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  • View Poll Results: Do you believe in the right to free speech?
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    Yeah as long as its not racist so basically no
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    It annoys me when people say they're an advocate of free speech "as long as it's not racist, sexist, homophobic etc."

    That's not 'free speech'!
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    Freedom of speech =/= freedom from criticism. As free as you are to voice an opinion, I am also free to oppose it and label it as I want, as well as it is your right to criticise that - as that is exercising your right to free speech.
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    (Original post by JessThomas6)
    Freedom of speech =/= freedom from criticism. As free as you are to voice an opinion, I am also free to oppose it and label it as I want, as well as it is your right to criticise that - as that is exercising your right to free speech.
    Agreed
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    Free speech is not free from consequences.

    If you say something that is racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic, don't complain about the consequences.
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    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    Free speech is not free from consequences.

    If you say something that is racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic, don't complain about the consequences.
    Depends on these consequences. If they're not justified then you absolutely have the right to complain.
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    I'm an advocate of free speech even if it's racist, sexist, homophobic, etc - how else are racists, sexists, and homophobes going to demonstrate for us just how idiotic their ideologies are? I draw the line at actually inciting people to violence, though.
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    (Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
    I'm an advocate of free speech even if it's racist, sexist, homophobic, etc - how else are racists, sexists, and homophobes going to demonstrate for us just how idiotic their ideologies are? I draw the line at actually inciting people to violence, though.
    Damn I actually haven't thought about that. I agree.
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    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    Free speech is not free from consequences.

    If you say something that is racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic, don't complain about the consequences.
    Well, if it involves official sanctions of some sort, or legal action, then no, that wouldn't exactly be "free" speech.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    Well, if it involves official sanctions of some sort, or legal action, then no, that wouldn't exactly be "free" speech.
    Why are official sanctions worse than societal sanctions?

    Official sanctions have more oversight, they have due process, rights to appeals, etc.

    Societal sanctions are far more widely abused, surely - e.g. your employer can fire you simply for disagreeing with them politically.
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    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    Why are official sanctions worse than societal sanctions?

    Official sanctions have more oversight, they have due process, rights to appeals, etc.

    Societal sanctions are far more widely abused, surely - e.g. your employer can fire you simply for disagreeing with them politically.
    I'll rephrase. It's not free speech if an authority (government, employer, or educator) punishes you for that speech or otherwise prohibits it through threat of punishment. Free speech is exercised freely, i.e. needs no permission and has no penalty issued by rulemakers.
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    I mean these people can advocate for free speech, but as soon as their own extremist beliefs slide under the blanket of hate speech they suddenly go back on their opinion, Just because someones political opinions may be seen as irrational by other people doesn't mean that they should be shut down. Everyone's opinion should matter in society otherwise it isn't democratic, at least in my opinion
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    (Original post by johnny.snow)
    Depends on these consequences. If they're not justified then you absolutely have the right to complain.
    Would you kindly define "justified" here?
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    There is also a certain doouble standard being evidenced here - take that toss pot Robinson for example; he spews bile at how sick and perverse Islam is and bashes Muslimsover the head as potential terrorists or pedos, when people bash him over the head he then whines about it being a violation of free speech. Yet he also gets rather offended when certain preachers start banging on about the sinful west and how evil it is - wouldnt that be just as serious a violation of their free speech?
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    As long as it does not incite violence, it's fine
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    (Original post by johnny.snow)
    It annoys me when people say they're an advocate of free speech "as long as it's not racist, sexist, homophobic etc."

    That's not 'free speech'!
    This is an overly simplistic view of free speech. “It annoys me when people say they’re an advocate of free speech... and then get free speech theory wrong.”

    “Free speech” doesn’t allow:

    Obscenity, libel/slander, speech incidental to the commission of a crime, fighting words, incitement to violence, child pornography, perjury, true threats, blackmail, solicitation to commit a crime.

    And even more/others when you consider more jurisdictions.

    I see no reason to think that hate speech ought to be protected by freedom of speech. Quite the opposite, I view hate speech laws as necessary for protecting the free speech rights of all citizens — including the minorities who would otherwise be the target of hate speech.

    See: Jeremy Waldron’s The Harm in Hate Speech.
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    This is an overly simplistic view of free speech. “It annoys me when people say they’re an advocate of free speech... and then get free speech theory wrong.”

    “Free speech” doesn’t allow:

    Obscenity ... child pornography, ...
    How is child pornography speech?

    Besides, obscenity is not illegal in most countries. There have been specific rulings that even swearing at police officers is fine.
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    i'm glad racists, sexists, homophobes, have free speech. it's best not to hide it. i need to know who i'm dealing with so i may choose not to associated you.

    BUT there seems to be a HUGE misbelief in here and in life in general. just because you have the right to say hateful things, doesn't mean i don't have the right to hate you. i don't have to give you a platform and i'm free to call you a racist et al and you shouldn't cry about it because you are a free speech warrior(!). i swear, i've never heard so much whinging and self martyring from the other side in my life.
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    (Original post by johnny.snow)
    It annoys me when people say they're an advocate of free speech "as long as it's not racist, sexist, homophobic etc."

    That's not 'freespeech'!
    Why should we accept racist, sexist and homophobic speech, even in an otherwise free and open environment?
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    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    How is child pornography speech?
    Just like regular pornography is speech. SCOTUS has ruled that simulated child pornography is protected by the first amendment, whereas actual child pornography is not because it harms a child; but absent harm, it’s protected speech.

    Besides, obscenity is not illegal in most countries. There have been specific rulings that even swearing at police officers is fine.
    Obscenity is illegal in most countries. The US, UK, Canada and many others have various laws regulating obscenity. You seem to have confused obscenity with swearing. This is patently incorrect. That’s now what obscenity is.
 
 
 
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