Why is music to blame for the surge in violence and not cuts?

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Waldorf67
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It all seems like a perfectly wrapped up scapegoat, to blame music for the surge in violence in London, than the more tangible alternative of a smaller, less equipped police force.

Doesn’t it?

All so convenient, that the ex Police Commissioners warnings of the effect of budget cuts on the ability of our police force to fight crime, is undermined by the new Commissioner’s argument. It’s not because the streets are less patrolled, it’s because of songs.


Songs are enciting violence. Not cuts to the police, not deprivation, not lack of opportunity.

Am I the only one who finds this a little bit sickening? It’s a very subtle form of propaganda.


Violent lyrics in music have been present in both pop and underground culture for years. There is no relation between the amount of “violence” in music and the amount of violence in the streets. At least I’ve yet to have seen one.

It’s nonsense, like I said, a perfect cover up. And in the mean time it is only going to further marginalise those communities.
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Captain Haddock
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Violent songs have been around for a very, very long time.
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Trinculo
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But do you apply the same rationale to all media?

By this rationale, Blurred Lines should never have been banned by student unions. The Mail shouldn't have been taken off sale at unions. There's nothing wrong with TV programmes that portray Muslims as terrorists - because there's no causation.
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Waldorf67
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(Original post by Trinculo)
But do you apply the same rationale to all media?

By this rationale, Blurred Lines should never have been banned by student unions. The Mail shouldn't have been taken off sale at unions. There's nothing wrong with TV programmes that portray Muslims as terrorists - because there's no causation.
I didn’t say that media has no influence on attitudes, I said that music is not as sufficient or direct a cause of violent behaviour, than budget cuts and poverty.

Do you disagree?
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Trinculo
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(Original post by Waldorf67)
I didn’t say that media has no influence on attitudes, I said that music is not as sufficient or direct a cause of violent behaviour, than budget cuts and poverty.

Do you disagree?
I agree that music is not a proximal cause of violence. I also believe that other media are just as removed from other negative effects.

If 1000 tracks about shooting people and having hoes doesn't cause violence, one Robin Thicke song doesn't cause sexual assault - but which one gets all the attention?
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Waldorf67
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(Original post by Trinculo)
I agree that music is not a proximal cause of violence. I also believe that other media are just as removed from other negative effects.

If 1000 tracks about shooting people and having hoes doesn't cause violence, one Robin Thicke song doesn't cause sexual assault - but which one gets all the attention?
Umm, I’d have to say the one which is being blamed for murders?

Why are taking a completely unrelated angle on this?
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Trinculo
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(Original post by Waldorf67)
Umm, I’d have to say the one which is being blamed for murders?

Why are taking a completely unrelated angle on this?
It's a debate. I can take any angle I like.

The point is that violent music is *apparently* being blamed for murder; whereas other music is called misogynistic and being blamed for sexual assault - yet only one type of music has action taken to censor it.
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Tommy123Hull
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I was going to say Oasis didn't do that but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaeLKhRnkhQ

It's just the way society is at the minute, a lot of people can't think for themselves so they let the music do the thinking!

I am 17 and I hate the fact that quite a lot of people my age are disrespectful and do not care one bit. And they expect things to just happen for them - it doesn't work like that you have to work your arse off!.

Enjoy the rest of your days! - my rant is over.
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PooPooHead123
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Nobody seriously suggests music causes violence

Only people who do are just hipsters offering alternative viewspoints to the widely accepted truth that though violent music & violent behaviour are sometimes related, you cannot always claim there’s a direct causation between the two

This music vs violence debate has been around for a long time. At least 50 years tbh. So this thread is just pointless lol

And finally, to completely deconstruct the whole argument I’d like to put forth someone else’s view on this subject (I think it was Prince but I can’t remember). They said, most music we hear on the radio is to do with love, so if music really is as impactful and influential on behaviour as we think, why do the majority of people not act with love & compassion? Because love and compassion is for soybois
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Waldorf67
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(Original post by Trinculo)
It's a debate. I can take any angle I like.

The point is that violent music is *apparently* being blamed for murder; whereas other music is called misogynistic and being blamed for sexual assault - yet only one type of music has action taken to censor it.
30 drill songs have been removed from YouTube? Why are you annoyed that Drill music isn’t being censored enough, when what should annoy you is the censorship in itself.

What a strange moral compass. Rather than be frustrated at the injustice of music being used as a mask for the effects of poverty and further budget cuts, let’s be annoyed that those pesky feminists had a louder voice than the government.


It just shows how distanced some people are from social issues.
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Waldorf67
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(Original post by PooPooHead123)
Nobody seriously suggests music causes violence

Only people who do are just hipsters offering alternative viewspoints to the widely accepted truth that though violent music & violent behaviour are sometimes related, you cannot always claim there’s a direct causation between the two

This music vs violence debate has been around for a long time. At least 50 years tbh. So this thread is just pointless lol

And finally, to completely deconstruct the whole argument I’d like to put forth someone else’s view on this subject (I think it was Prince but I can’t remember). They said, most music we hear on the radio is to do with love, so if music really is as impactful and influential on behaviour as we think, why do the majority of people not act with love & compassion? Because love and compassion is for soybois
The thread isn’t pointless because this is actually happening. You say no one seriously suggests music incites violence but that’s precisely what the Head of Police is stating

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.tim...0%3fsource=dam
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Waldorf67
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(Original post by Tommy123Hull)
I was going to say Oasis didn't do that but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaeLKhRnkhQ

It's just the way society is at the minute, a lot of people can't think for themselves so they let the music do the thinking!

I am 17 and I hate the fact that quite a lot of people my age are disrespectful and do not care one bit. And they expect things to just happen for them - it doesn't work like that you have to work your arse off!.

Enjoy the rest of your days! - my rant is over.
So you agree with the media that drill music is the cause of the surge in violence?
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Tommy123Hull
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(Original post by Waldorf67)
So you agree with the media that drill music is the cause of the surge in violence?
Not the root cause but certainly a major influence.
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Waldorf67
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(Original post by Tommy123Hull)
Not the route cause but certainly a major influence.
Do you think more so than poverty, or lack of proesects, or cut to the police force?
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PooPooHead123
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(Original post by Waldorf67)
The thread isn’t pointless because this is actually happening. You say no one seriously suggests music incites violence but that’s precisely what the Head of Police is stating

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.tim...0%3fsource=dam
The head of police asked for any music that *glamourises* violence to be taken down. Glamourising is not the same as inciting
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999tigger
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(Original post by Waldorf67)
It all seems like a perfectly wrapped up scapegoat, to blame music for the surge in violence in London, than the more tangible alternative of a smaller, less equipped police force.

Doesn’t it?

All so convenient, that the ex Police Commissioners warnings of the effect of budget cuts on the ability of our police force to fight crime, is undermined by the new Commissioner’s argument. It’s not because the streets are less patrolled, it’s because of songs.


Songs are enciting violence. Not cuts to the police, not deprivation, not lack of opportunity.

Am I the only one who finds this a little bit sickening? It’s a very subtle form of propaganda.


Violent lyrics in music have been present in both pop and underground culture for years. There is no relation between the amount of “violence” in music and the amount of violence in the streets. At least I’ve yet to have seen one.

It’s nonsense, like I said, a perfect cover up. And in the mean time it is only going to further marginalise those communities.
Why does it have to be one or the other? Why not consider whether both are contributing factors and to what extent?
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Tommy123Hull
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(Original post by Waldorf67)
Do you think more so than poverty, or lack of proesects, or cut to the police force?
Lack of sufficient education about the real issues in life and police cuts will ovbiously result in more crime.

Poverty shouldn't even exist. But it does, people have no drive in life so they just turn to crime.

These need to be sorted, people need to open their eyes and see what't happening on our streets.
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Waldorf67
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(Original post by PooPooHead123)
The head of police asked for any music that *glamourises* violence to be taken down. Glamourising is not the same as inciting
So why would they ask for such videos to be removed if they believed that “glamourising” violence had no effect on real life behaviour?
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Waldorf67
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Why does it have to be one or the other? Why not consider whether both are contributing factors and to what extent?
Because one possible cause is being targeted and the other completely ignored?
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JTfoxlove
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Even if it's not the music - it'll still be footballers' tattoos before it'll be the cuts.
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