Household income and social class Watch

The Strangest Quark
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#21
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#21
Money isn't all that relevant. Builders and plumbers can earn loads, but they're generally upper working class jobs. Whereas some typically middle-class jobs are quite poorly paid. It's more about attitudes and values, really. And the weird subtle class-based indicators in English society, like how you say 'scones', or what you do with your napkin... Class is silly, really.
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L i b
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#22
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#22
****ing daft thread. Social class in Britain has nothing to do with income.
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coldplasma
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#23
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#23
(Original post by L i b)
****ing daft thread. Social class in Britain has nothing to do with income.
I beg to differ. It has everything to do with income.
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L i b
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#24
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#24
(Original post by coldplasma)
I beg to differ. It has everything to do with income.
Nope. There are loads of lower class types who have lots of money, and plenty of middle and upper class people who are skint.
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xxxchrisxxx
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#25
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#25
(Original post by L i b)
Nope. There are loads of lower class types who have lots of money, and plenty of middle and upper class people who are skint.

how could one be upperclass and skint?
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L i b
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#26
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(Original post by xxxchrisxxx)
how could one be upperclass and skint?
Most of the traditional upper class is quite skint, at least in terms of income. Probably because they are unlikely to work, the cost of labour has increased and former sources of income are dying out. That's a trend that's been going on since the war and is firmly entrenched.

Secondly, you have your middle and upper class types who do not attempt to make any great income. Artists, for example. I fit into this mould too - I have a household income that probably falls into four figures, and quite a few outstanding debts - financially, I am considerably worse off than many working class people, yet I consider myself quite firmly middle class.
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Origami Bullets
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#27
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#27
(Original post by xxxchrisxxx)
how could one be upperclass and skint?
If they were born into that class but were frankly thick and ended up in a crap job

If they lost the money for some other reason (inheritance tax, upkeep of large house that has been in the family for centuries etc.)
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Kater Murr
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#28
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It can't be done objectively, however:

< £15 000 Working Class
£15 000 - £25 000 Lower Middle Class
£25 000 - £50 000 Middle Class
£50 000 + ...is just completely off my radar.
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weet_ABI_x
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#29
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#29
(Original post by buttons_andbeads)
I saw a newspaper article about a chav who won the lottery and said his life long dream had been to buy a council house of his own and a vauxhall corsa. Which he did!
In a way I think that's quite sweet!
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halátnost
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#30
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(Original post by Kater Murr)
It can't be done objectively, however:

< £15 000 Working Class
£15 000 - £25 000 Lower Middle Class
£25 000 - £50 000 Middle Class
£50 000 + ...is just completely off my radar.

Somebody who actually answered the OP with a subjective opinion, instead of getting into the whole "definition of class" debate, which was not what the op was asking. Well done.
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xxxchrisxxx
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Helena in Bristol)
If they were born into that class but were frankly thick and ended up in a crap job

If they lost the money for some other reason (inheritance tax, upkeep of large house that has been in the family for centuries etc.)

so does this mean there is no social class mobility then? you are what you were born into? if one "ends up in a crap job", does that not make one working class?
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halátnost
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#32
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(Original post by xxxchrisxxx)
so does this mean there is no social class mobility then? you are what you were born into? if one "ends up in a crap job", does that not make one working class?

I'm too lazy to massively elaborate right now, but I did ramble on this topic a while ago. The post can be seen here if you are interested. Haven't re-read it since so not sure whether my opinions have changed since or not. It's basically my two cents worth anyhow (whether it represents value for money I couldn't possibly say!).
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Kater Murr
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#33
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(Original post by halátnost)
Somebody who actually answered the OP with a subjective opinion, instead of getting into the whole "definition of class" debate, which was not what the op was asking. Well done.


...
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dogtanian
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#34
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(Original post by halátnost)
Somebody who actually answered the OP with a subjective opinion, instead of getting into the whole "definition of class" debate, which was not what the op was asking. Well done.

Thing is though, if like me you believe the notion of income directly correlates to your class is hugely flawed, how can we answer without giving our opinion on what class is? I do not believe you can quantify it in terms of income alone.


My household income is very low (I'd be well within Kater Murr's 'Working Class' category), yet thanks to my grammar school and university education, I have prospects and dreams far beyond those of the previous generations of my family. I have a very middle class outlook and aspirations. I do not consider myself to be working class.
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Clubber Lang
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#35
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I class people on how they carry themselves for example a chav with loads of money isn't middle class IMO

As has been said, people with lower of income have loads of good shizzle these days, so the gaps between standards of living are not even as big as they were once.

if you want to split it up by income you would better off doing working class and thsoe rich enough not to need to work.

(edited to fix a few mistakes!)
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Kater Murr
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#36
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(Original post by dogtanian)
Thing is though, if like me you believe the notion of income directly correlates to your class is hugely flawed, how can we answer without giving our opinion on what class is? I do not believe you can quantify it in terms of income alone.


My household income is very low (I'd be well within Kater Murr's 'Working Class' category), yet thanks to my grammar school and university education, I have prospects and dreams far beyond those of the previous generations of my family. I have a very middle class outlook and aspirations. I do not consider myself to be working class.
Are you from a working class household, though? That's closer to what it would be judging.
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L i b
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#37
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#37
(Original post by halátnost)
Somebody who actually answered the OP with a subjective opinion, instead of getting into the whole "definition of class" debate, which was not what the op was asking. Well done.
Well, the OP's question doesn't make sense really, that's the problem.

(Original post by xxxchrisxxx)
so does this mean there is no social class mobility then? you are what you were born into? if one "ends up in a crap job", does that not make one working class?
Basically yes. The entry requirements get higher with every class and, as a rule, you can usually only hope to jump one in your lifetime. Equally, it's difficult to drop classes in the same fashion.

No, ending up in a crap job does not make you working class.
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halátnost
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#38
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I totally agree with dogtanian and Lib that it was a vague and misguided question - I too really do not believe that household income is explicitly linked to class, which is why I did link to a previous post on what I feel class is. Although I do feel people have focused more on 'money' rather than earned income, which was the original question and is more of a factor in class strata than simply the amount of money an individual is in possession of. ie. people are talking about 'chavs' (horrible word btw) winning the lottery. But this thread was not about lump sums of money, it was about earnings. The 'chav' individual would not have earned £1 million (say) - and - assuming that he/she gave up work on the back of their win, then their income would be nothing, which would still see them categorised as working class/underclass. Earnings is a factor in class, more than simply acquirement of money. So in that particular instance, actually what people have said is wrong, because his/her income would still be linked to the class, regardless of a million windfall.

For the purpose of this thread, I tried to answer within the frame of what was being asked and I think Kater Murr did too. I totally agree with dogtanian & Lib though that it is frustrating and we have had this discussion before: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...8#post10751578
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dogtanian
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#39
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(Original post by Kater Murr)
Are you from a working class household, though? That's closer to what it would be judging.

Probably yes (the household income bit refers to my family, not my uni loan/part time job), but I wouldn't call myself working class still. Maybe it would have been relevant when I was younger, but I think my outlook and the opportunities afforded to me largely thanks to my education mean I'm a world away from the 'working class' people I grew up with.


Reading back that sounds snobbish, but I didn't mean it to. Bah.


Maybe that's where my issue is actually. If my parents are working class, but I don't expect to me, surely the fact people like me (ie: students) haven't made our mark on the world yet means we're floating oddly outside of the equation. I've moved on from my more modest childhood and have moved into a middle class environment of education and opportunity. I'm not for a second saying that the working class are all thickos living in the gutter, but I do think university is a very middle class institution. even if you're a kid from a working class background, the opportunities university opens up for you are (sweeping generalisation time) pretty stereotypically middle class.
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Indievertigo
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#40
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#40
I thought it was defined by drug use. Anyone who took cocaine socially was upper class, and anyone who smoked weed socially was middle class. Working class... smoked cigarettes?
At least in the nineties...
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