Is being opposed to outsourcing jobs racist?

If not, what is the real difference between that and insourcing (bringing immigrants to do jobs here?)

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/04/summer-employers-trump-guest-worker-visas-immigration-242271

Reply 1

Opinel

8

Original post by Davij038

If not, what is the real difference between that and insourcing (bringing immigrants to do jobs here?)

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/04/summer-employers-trump-guest-worker-visas-immigration-242271

I wouldn't say it is "racist" to hold that view at all. I would say one who holds such a view believes that is more beneficial to try and reduce unemployment at home. This has it's challenges of course, such as with work that people do not have the skill set to do at home, so outsourcing seems logical.

And when in comes to it in opposition to insourcing, insourcing causes higher net migration. This may be undesirable to some (for perhaps racist or non racist reasons). This causes a need to house and give services to new people whilst some would say those at home could be fit to do the work themselves, making importing new people just a burden.

I wouldn't say opposing these two ideas to be "racist" but rather more dependant on their views on unemployment, skill shortage or surplus and the idea that it is rather pointless, and only driven by a companies want for profit.

I am undecided on this issue, but I have decided to bring up these ideas I have heard on the issue before.

Reply 2

HighOnGoofballs

16

Well, it's got nothing to do with race so how can it be racist?

Reply 3

Davij038

OP

13

Original post by Opinel

I wouldn't say it is "racist" to hold that view at all. I would say one who holds such a view believes that is more beneficial to try and reduce unemployment at home.

And Theron lies the potential problem, you’re making the argument that one group should be treated differently to others.

@HighOnGoofballs

This has it's challenges of course, such as with work that people do not have the skill set to do at home, so outsourcing seems logical.

Not really, it seems logical to train your people rather than to bring in foreigners from a different continent or/ and culture

Reply 4

Opinel

8

Original post by Davij038

Not really, it seems logical to train your people rather than to bring in foreigners from a different continent or/ and culture

I would agree

Reply 5

HighOnGoofballs

16

Original post by Davij038

And Theron lies the potential problem, you’re making the argument that one group should be treated differently to others.@HighOnGoofballs

Well, that still isn't racism. I think children should be treated differently from adults. I think non-citizens should be treated differently from citizens.

Clearly, that isn't racist, so why would being opposed to outsourcing be?

It's only racist if you wish to treat people differently solely due to their race.

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 6

PilgrimOfTruth

17

HighOnGoofballs has it right

A society can not survive unless there is some level of cohesion and support for itself. The population of Britain can not survive (as a cohesive functioning unit) unless there is some level of support for that community. Undermining the jobs of the people in that community by giving the jobs to people outside of that community (ostensibly for cheap labour) is simply counter productive. It's a selfish move by corporations to make more personal money at the expense of the wider problems it creates for Britain's community. The other problem is that outsourcing seldom actually works. The skills needed are seldom there in the outsourced country and the British workers end up having to train those foreigners to do the job which is frankly utterly ridiculous. Been there, lived through it, seen companies outsource their IT to India etc, then seen the mayhem produced and the subsequent bringing back in of the IT services a few years later.

Your original question ultimately begs the wider question:

"Is it right for a mass of people living on a mass of land to identify themselves as a country"

Isn't it actually racist to have the concept of a country at all?!

It's a silly argument because ultimately people live in communities and need structure and commonality to survive.

Reply 7

username1799249

19

Original post by Davij038

Not really, it seems logical to train your people rather than to bring in foreigners from a different continent or/ and culture

You seem to be talking about something that isn't outsourcing. The driver for outsourcing is almost always cost. So a hospital or business might outsource its cleaning because it is cheaper for a company that is employing cleaners en-mass to clean your premises rather than you employing a full time cleaner with all the admin that that would bring. Similarly with things like manufacturing and call centres. They are outsourced to other companies simply because people who work there earn less than in the UK. It has little to do with skills. Simply that employees in this country expect to paid more to do the same job. For the business, it is a no brainer. If the iPhone were manufactured in the US, it would cost twice as much.

Reply 8

ohdearstudying

22

Original post by ByEeek

You seem to be talking about something that isn't outsourcing. The driver for outsourcing is almost always cost. So a hospital or business might outsource its cleaning because it is cheaper for a company that is employing cleaners en-mass to clean your premises rather than you employing a full time cleaner with all the admin that that would bring. Similarly with things like manufacturing and call centres. They are outsourced to other companies simply because people who work there earn less than in the UK. It has little to do with skills. Simply that employees in this country expect to paid more to do the same job. For the business, it is a no brainer. If the iPhone were manufactured in the US, it would cost twice as much.

Probably cost twice as much but the quality be identical and instead of having 10000% profit margins they would be 3000%.

Reply 9

ohdearstudying

22

If there's not one qualified nearby you outsource.

For example, if you're looking to fill a position within a company, you try and fill it internally but if no one's qualified you would have to outsource. The suggestion of training doesn't make sense to wait weeks, months and sometimes years to try and fill a position because you don't want to outsource.

Same applies to the world, if you can't find someone nearby to do it-you go further away until someone is qualfiied and wants to do it-to the standard you require.

Reply 10

Bang Outta Order

20

what...? people dont like outsourcing because they want a job. Not everything is "because ma skin."

Reply 11

SHallowvale

14

Original post by Davij038

If not, what is the real difference between that and insourcing (bringing immigrants to do jobs here?)

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/04/summer-employers-trump-guest-worker-visas-immigration-242271

Not inherently.

Outsourcing doesn't have to involve more than one country. A chain of retailers operating in the South East could outsource their customer services to a call centre in Scotland, for example.

Outsourcing, either to another part of the country or to a different country entirely, can be done for a bunch of reasons independent of race, eg the cost effectiveness of it.

Original post by Davij038

Not really, it seems logical to train your people rather than to bring in foreigners from a different continent or/ and culture

True, but the real world is a lot more complicated than that. You can't just wave a magic wand and generate a skill/trade/industry in a country which doesn't have one of it's own. It can take generations to create something like this from scratch.

Reply 12

username1799249

19

Original post by ohdearstudying

Probably cost twice as much but the quality be identical and instead of having 10000% profit margins they would be 3000%.

But they don't have 10000% profit margins. An iPhone x doesn't cost 10 cents to manufacture. They make money on the basis of the fact that they are able to produce a quality product at a good cost and then sell it to a market that perceive it as a premium product and are prepared to pay a premium price.

Reply 13

ohdearstudying

22

Original post by ByEeek

But they don't have 10000% profit margins. An iPhone x doesn't cost 10 cents to manufacture. They make money on the basis of the fact that they are able to produce a quality product at a good cost and then sell it to a market that perceive it as a premium product and are prepared to pay a premium price.

Oh my god can't you even understand these figures were plucked out of the air for effect?

A premium product that costs <£100 so I would be accepting £400-£500 not £1K

Reply 14

PilgrimOfTruth

17

Ok Time out on this thread! It's obvious that OP used the wrong term here.He/she should have used the term OFFSHORING rather than outsourcing.Is opposing OFFSHORING racist?No I would say not. It's an awful practice that, as others have pointed out, greedy companies engage it for the soel reason of using cheap labour and thereby increasing profits. It doesn't work in the long run and is hugely damaging to UK workers and the UK community as a whole. Racism has nothing to do with it.A similar greed based dilemma occurs when people see pairs of jeans on sale in supermarkets for £3 a pop.The selfish route is to simply say, it's a pair of cheap jeans why should I pay higher prices in my local high street. The reality is that taking that decision undermine the UK working community and manufacturing and the entire food chain from top down. When we buy cheap foreign goods we are ignoring the wider picture of the UK economy. People have done this for years and as a result the UK pretty much now doesn't manufacture anything. Most of the business is services.We are all stupid. Our demise is our own fault. We failed to pull togther as a national community and thrive and as a result our country is on its knees.

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 15

username1799249

19

Original post by ohdearstudying

Oh my god can't you even understand these figures were plucked out of the air for effect?

A premium product that costs <£100 so I would be accepting £400-£500 not £1K

Ok - so I got my sums wrong. But so did you. The iPhone X doesn't cost <$100 to manufacture. Have you factored in shipping, marketing, development, sales and tax into your calculations? But at the end of the day, there are people stupid enough to pay £1k for it, so why would you charge less?

And either way, if a company exists to provide a return for its investors, why would you pay more to manufacture your product? And either way, consumers say they are bothered about local jobs but then happily pay bottom price for product manufactured in sweat shops around the globe.

Reply 16

Davij038

OP

13

Yeah I meant offshoring, my bad.

Original post by HighOnGoofballs

I think non-citizens should be treated differently from citizens.

Why?

Reply 17

Davij038

OP

13

Original post by SHallowvale

Not inherently.

Outsourcing doesn't have to involve more than one country. A chain of retailers operating in the South East could outsource their customer services to a call centre in Scotland, for example.

Outsourcing, either to another part of the country or to a different country entirely, can be done for a bunch of reasons independent of race, eg the cost effectiveness of it.

See above, I meant off shoring. I agree that it is done for non racist reasons (cost) but I am more interested in why exactly people opppse it .

True, but the real world is a lot more complicated than that. You can't just wave a magic wand and generate a skill/trade/industry in a country which doesn't have one of it's own. It can take generations to create something like this from scratch.

I was having an argument about this with s family member which I found very interesting. Basically they conceded that it’s better for us to do jobs instead of offshoring them or bringing in foreigners but said that the skills/willingness to do them aren’t there- which may be the case.

But

A) it appears there’s no attempt at doing this
B) these measures to fill in the labour gap/ skill shortage often become long term, create interest groups and exacerbate the already existing skill shortage

Reply 18

Davij038

OP

13

Original post by Bang Outta Order

what...? people dont like outsourcing because they want a job.

You can make the same argument for being against immigration in general though- in which there can clearly be a racial argument for too

Reply 19

Bang Outta Order

20

Original post by Davij038

You can make the same argument for being against immigration in general though- in which there can clearly be a racial argument for too

No. You can't. You can't say outsourcing is racist or even racial. They don't want outsourcing because they want the jobs to stay in their country, for them. The jobs could be outsourced anywhere and it wouldnt matter, it's nothing to do with where the jobs are going to. The issue with outsourcing is with the companies who do it, not with the countrymen in the foreign call centre. Whereas people who hate immigration hate it for a number of reasons, not just for employment purposes. I know people, I'm sure we all do, who have solid careers and nice homes who don't want immigrants and dont care about outsourcing. I know the vice versa as well. So tl;dr, outsourcing is usually not personal, while immigration can be.

Is being opposed to outsourcing jobs racist?

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