briefcase
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im looking at studying abroad e.g. europe or the Caribbean but i wanted to ask if anyone on tsr has studied abroad or even if you haven't to give me some giudance

would studying abroad affect chances of getting a job? i know that i need to ensure my course is recognised by the gmc but what about actual work. would others be favoured over me for studying in the uk?
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Cheesychips1
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^ the above is not massively relevant when it comes to medicine...

Are you a UK national? That makes it a bit easier I think

http://www.foundationprogramme.nhs.u...ility#answer69 - there should be some good answers here for you, http://www.foundationprogramme.nhs.u...ty-information - look at the eligibility document

As far as I can tell it is a competitive process to return to the UK after studying elsewhere, EU students are favoured over international, and med students in the UK get first pick. You need to make sure the course is GMC accredited. You may have to sit the PLAB or a language exam depending on your nationality and where you train. There's quite a few threads on here from people studying abroad, mainly in Europe. I don't know a huge amount about the process I'm sorry, I just thought I should reply because the above response is a bit misleading (completing your medical degree abroad will not help an application to be a doctor in the UK).

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho....php?t=5157926 - here's a recent one, there's a bit of chatter about whether you are guaranteed a job at the end of your studies, I think that is slightly misleading. Also I don't know how Brexit will affect the process. Anyways good luck with your application.
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girl_in_black
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(Original post by BCU Amina)
Hi,

I haven’t studied abroad but may be able to give you some guidance non the less.

I think studying abroad is an incredibly interesting thing to do and can really help you to stand out. You mentioned that a UK student may be favoured over one who didn’t study in the UK. However, I may disagree with this in that being able to show you studied somewhere else will really help with standing out. How many other people looking at the same job as you in the future can say the same? It may really help when it comes to applying for jobs as it can be competitive. Being able to stand out these days is probably the most important aspect in being successful for the role in a job.

Hope that helps! Good luck! 😃
Although it might be an interesting experience, none of the other things apply to medicine, unfortunately.
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briefcase
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(Original post by girl_in_black)
Although it might be an interesting experience, none of the other things apply to medicine, unfortunately.
what other things?
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briefcase
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(Original post by Cheesychips44)
^ the above is not massively relevant when it comes to medicine...

Are you a UK national? That makes it a bit easier I think

http://www.foundationprogramme.nhs.u...ility#answer69 - there should be some good answers here for you, http://www.foundationprogramme.nhs.u...ty-information - look at the eligibility document

As far as I can tell it is a competitive process to return to the UK after studying elsewhere, EU students are favoured over international, and med students in the UK get first pick. You need to make sure the course is GMC accredited. You may have to sit the PLAB or a language exam depending on your nationality and where you train. There's quite a few threads on here from people studying abroad, mainly in Europe. I don't know a huge amount about the process I'm sorry, I just thought I should reply because the above response is a bit misleading (completing your medical degree abroad will not help an application to be a doctor in the UK).

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho....php?t=5157926 - here's a recent one, there's a bit of chatter about whether you are guaranteed a job at the end of your studies, I think that is slightly misleading. Also I don't know how Brexit will affect the process. Anyways good luck with your application.
thanks for helping out. yes i am a uk national. i heard that by applying abroad some unis give an md which means you graduate at f2 doctor and that most courses are recognised by the gmc. (dont worry i will 100% ensure its gmc approved). i think the gmc said that pleb isnt required when graduating from eu if recognised by gmc. i will email them once i am certain with what im doing but thanks anyway!
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girl_in_black
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(Original post by briefcase)
what other things?
Studying abroad will not make it easier for you to get a job in the UK. For foundation training, jobs are allocated to UK graduates first, and any left-over jobs are then available to non-UK graduates. EU graduates are favoured over non-EU graduates.

Another to consider is that if you study abroad, you may not be able to do things such as audits and poster presentations or an intercalated degree, which will get you points when you apply for training after foundation.
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Cheesychips1
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(Original post by briefcase)
thanks for helping out. yes i am a uk national. i heard that by applying abroad some unis give an md which means you graduate at f2 doctor and that most courses are recognised by the gmc. (dont worry i will 100% ensure its gmc approved). i think the gmc said that pleb isnt required when graduating from eu if recognised by gmc. i will email them once i am certain with what im doing but thanks anyway!
Yeah the thing is there is limited standalone F2 posts, and UK grads will be applying for them as well if they want a different location or whatever.

TBH I don't know a huge amount about it, but I think it is definitely more difficult than people in this forum make out! Jobs are still allocated to UK grads first, you may need to learn a new language to study in whichever country you go to, certain EU med schools kick a large % of the students out in the early years, as others have mentioned - intercalation and research may be more difficult, and often it is more expensive. I've only ever met 1 doctor who trained outside of the UK, and he said quite a few people didn't get posts (I think he trained in Czech republic), or what they were offered was in undesirable locations i.e. the shetlands.

I obviously don't know anything about your circumstances, but I would consider trying to apply to the UK again if that's at all possible.
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ForestCat
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Actually when it comes to the centralised application for foundation years, graduates from the UK are absolutely placed first. Their medical school will enter them into FPAS and that is how the majority of foundation jobs are allocated.

Yes there are some stand alone posts but these make up a much smaller proportion of the total foundation jobs. And given by the thread on here, there turned out to be far fewer (training) posts than originally expected so a lot of applicants who trained elsewhere have missed out.

I appreciate you’re trying to help out and it may sound as if we’re saying ‘oh but medicine is special’ to be precious. The fact is there are a lot of ins and outs of training in medicine and it generally doesn’t follow the rules of most other uni courses.
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girl_in_black
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(Original post by BCU Amina)
That’s not necessarily true. They don’t choose UK students over international ones. Everyone has an equal footing. It’s not based on whether or not you graduated from a university in the U.K or in a university abroad.
To quote the Applicant Guidance for F1 / F2 Stand-alone Programme Vacancies:

" UK and EEA nationals and doctors whose immigration status entitles them to work as a doctor in training in the UK are eligible to apply for F1 / F2 stand-alone programmes. [...]

Other non-UK or non-EEA nationals with limited leave to remain in the UK, whose employment will require a Tier 2 visa, are subject to the Resident Labour Market Test and would only be considered for appointment if there were no suitable UK or EEA national (settled status) candidates for the post."

The rules are similar for those applying to the foundation programme - non-EU graduates are only allocated jobs once all eligible UK and EU applicants have been matched to programmes.

So unfortunately no, not everyone has an equal footing and studying in the UK is an advantage when it comes to medicine. It isn't impossible for foreign graduates to get a job, but it is a lot less straightforward than for those who studied in the UK.
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Cheesychips1
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I guess other people have replied for me, but they do choose UK grads over international. This is well established within medicine, it’s not an underhand thing at all. There is a clear application system with guidelines.

If you’d like more information, there’s quite a lot on the links I posted above and on the UKFPO/ GMC/FPAS websites.
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briefcase
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(Original post by Cheesychips44)
Yeah the thing is there is limited standalone F2 posts, and UK grads will be applying for them as well if they want a different location or whatever.

TBH I don't know a huge amount about it, but I think it is definitely more difficult than people in this forum make out! Jobs are still allocated to UK grads first, you may need to learn a new language to study in whichever country you go to, certain EU med schools kick a large % of the students out in the early years, as others have mentioned - intercalation and research may be more difficult, and often it is more expensive. I've only ever met 1 doctor who trained outside of the UK, and he said quite a few people didn't get posts (I think he trained in Czech republic), or what they were offered was in undesirable locations i.e. the shetlands.

I obviously don't know anything about your circumstances, but I would consider trying to apply to the UK again if that's at all possible.
true the local language must be learnt but this is usually later on during the 6 year course when it comes to pts interactions.

and i dont think its more expensive. its acc a lot cheaper than the uk depending on where you apply obviously

thank you! but i havent applied, i applied for a different course which im not interested in but im thinking of studying abroad to escape having to pay over £50,000 student loan
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Cheesychips1
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(Original post by briefcase)
true the local language must be learnt but this is usually later on during the 6 year course when it comes to pts interactions.

and i dont think its more expensive. its acc a lot cheaper than the uk depending on where you apply obviously

thank you! but i havent applied, i applied for a different course which im not interested in but im thinking of studying abroad to escape having to pay over £50,000 student loan
Oh really? I thought standard tuition fees was €14000+ , which a SFE loan wouldn't cover

A quick google showed this - https://www.eu-medstudy.com/study-me...versity-prague
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Stakanovicius
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(Original post by Cheesychips44)
Oh really? I thought standard tuition fees was €14000+ , which a SFE loan wouldn't cover

A quick google showed this - https://www.eu-medstudy.com/study-me...versity-prague
It depends on which country you are applying to. In Spain and Italy (places where I have lived throughout my life) uni fees for all subjects range from 1000 to 2000 euros (about 850 to 1700 pounds) per year

In my opinion, you should try applying to the Netherlands and Ireland, as they have quite cheap uni fees for UK standards, everyone in Ireland and most people in the Netherlands speaks english, and I think the degree you would obtain would be valid in England.

Also, Slovenia has free tuition fees for most courses (you should check that out), and there are some courses (not many though) taught in English in Sweden, maybe even including medicine.
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briefcase
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(Original post by Cheesychips44)
Oh really? I thought standard tuition fees was €14000+ , which a SFE loan wouldn't cover

A quick google showed this - https://www.eu-medstudy.com/study-me...versity-prague
oh interesting. i guess i’ll research properly once exams are over
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briefcase
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(Original post by Stakanovicius)
It depends on which country you are applying to. In Spain and Italy (places where I have lived throughout my life) uni fees for all subjects range from 1000 to 2000 euros (about 850 to 1700 pounds) per year

In my opinion, you should try applying to the Netherlands and Ireland, as they have quite cheap uni fees for UK standards, everyone in Ireland and most people in the Netherlands speaks english, and I think the degree you would obtain would be valid in England.

Also, Slovenia has free tuition fees for most courses (you should check that out), and there are some courses (not many though) taught in English in Sweden, maybe even including medicine.
yes i have considered ireland. i havent looked into the netherlands but i think italy would probably be incredible if there was an affordable english degree. im learning the language purely because i like italian and ive learnt spanish so its helps when theres an overlap
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Stakanovicius
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(Original post by briefcase)
yes i have considered ireland. i havent looked into the netherlands but i think italy would probably be incredible if there was an affordable english degree. im learning the language purely because i like italian and ive learnt spanish so its helps when theres an overlap
IDK if there are any degrees in English in Italy, I'm not familiar with the university system there, but there are some places in Spain where you can study a degree in English (although there aren't many, and in some places the teachers might not really speak English)
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