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deleting ex-friends - why so hard?
Deleting ex-friends on msn?
I need to delete someone who was once a close friend on msn, but I can’t bring myself to do it. It’s a really complicated problem that’s been going on for over a year now.
I’ll call them Person Y…because for the length of this entire mess, I’ve kept asking myself why why why. This is the shortened version of a very long drawn out fight.
Person Y and I were involved in a writing project together along with a mutual friend K. It was very time consuming; we would often work for hours and hours on msn either writing or discussing what we had written and what we might write next. We were writing our story in an unusual way – we each chose a character to play and developed the story that way. Because of this, it meant that if anyone dropped out, the whole thing was gone. It was also bad because I think it was due to the relationship of our characters that Person Y fell in love with me. I told her I was straight and so didn’t return the feeling. Person Y tells me nothing will change between us.
A couple of months later, Person Y sends me an email telling me she can’t write anymore. I take it badly. All I could think of was the months we’d spent writing and that we’d now never finish and find out what would be the ending for our characters. I tried to put it all out of mind so that I didn’t keep getting upset. I couldn’t reply to any of Y’s emails, nor those of our other writing partner K for almost two weeks because of this.
I don’t know if I was angry or not with Y having left after saying nothing would change. I was too upset to be angry, but then I found out from K that Y was saying I was being spiteful and punishing her. When K tried to tell Y I was too upset to talk and that I hadn’t talked to her as well for the past two weeks (and clearly I had no reason to “punish” K), Y ignored her.
Y then tells me this herself in emails. I don’t know if I can resent her for leaving the writing project but I was upset that she’d done it and now wasn’t leaving me any time to ‘grieve’ for our work. And that between the choice of believing I was too upset to talk to her and believing I was too spiteful to talk to her, she chose the latter. I tell her this. But Y cannot understand why I would be upset that a friend had chosen to believe this of me.
For the next two weeks, Y and I exchange emails about it. Y says she accepts now that I wasn’t being spiteful and seems to be apologizing. Meanwhile K sends me transcripts of their chat conversations in which Y badmouths me and seems to be saying the opposite of what she said to me. I write to Y about this, the emails seem to take on a more hostile tone. I tell K I won’t speak to Y in a chat myself until I know that she’s changed her mind for sure.
But I give in agree to chat without knowing, and this was a big mistake. We argue a lot about it. Y finally says that yes, she accepts I was too upset to talk to her (nice of her) but that no, she doesn’t see anything wrong with assuming what she did and would do it again. Then Y suddenly tells me I’m bad for her and that she doesn’t want to ever talk to me again.
I cried a lot after that, because I did think now we were definitely no longer friends. This was December 2006. At Christmas time, K talks to us both at the same time online, and then tells me Y does want to talk again. But there was a miscommunication at their end, and K then has to tell me that Y has just confirmed she never wants to speak to me again. She also tells me that Y calls me manipulative. Then a few days later, Y suddenly talks to me as if nothing has happened and asks me why we can’t just move on.
I couldn’t. If this makes sense, I was upset that she couldn’t understand why I would be upset that she couldn’t understand why I was upset…I felt that despite what she said about loving me, she only loved herself or the image she had of me, and that my real feelings didn’t matter. If I thought differently from how she wanted me to, she would ignore it or come up with a reason. She didn’t want me to be upset about something she’d done, so I had to be faking it instead.
Y and I don’t talk for months now. I have her blocked on msn but not deleted. I keep hoping that she’ll change her mind and realize things. In March 07, she tells K that she alternates between loving and loathing me. In April, she finally gets herself a girlfriend who lives in Australia. At that point, I think things are probably lost between us, because if she wouldn’t make the effort to change her behaviour when she was apparently obsessed with me, she’s even less likely to make up now.
This August, though, we do talk a little. Chatting about other stuff, everything except what happened. I feel like Y has changed her mind – she must have, otherwise why talk to me? I don’t ask for an apology to confirm this, because contrary to what she claimed to think, I never wanted to her to go do penance. I just didn’t want her to think it was ok to treat a friend like that. But this was my mistake, because the issue does come up, and Y reveals that she still thinks the same. She tells me that I wasn’t upset all this year; instead that I’m just competitive, that I think this is all a competition between us.
I could write pages about how this, like so many things she says about me, is actually true about her and not me, and I did – I later sent a very long email like this letter writing out why I was upset about what she did, and that I’m giving up on her, no more chances now. The miracle happens. Y apologizes, tells me she is very sorry for everything, and that I’d better stay away from her for my own good. Y also seems slightly suicidal. I tell her that if she says she’ll try to change, that’s enough for me, and we’ll see how that goes.
I hear very little from Y for the next few weeks and fear this is a bad sign. It is. Y finally surfaces and tells me that she didn’t mean what she said before, because she was depressed then. She says that my sending an email to her writing about what she’d done to her me was cruel. She repudiates what she’d said about it.
We also argue about how earlier I sent a message to K about something about our novel and then on K’s advice, forwarded it to Y. Y said that hurt her, and when I asked how the hell my not rewriting the words of an email so she could have her own copy could hurt her when she couldn’t understand how all those things she said about me hurt me, she tells me to **** off. She then says she won’t talk to me anymore, and as I’m in mid-reply, deletes me from her g-chat list.
I’m also deleted from her msn, though for a while I hoped I was just blocked, because msn just shows the blocker/deleter offline. But I am deleted. The next and last contact I ever had with Y since then was this December, when I asked for her to unlock something on her livejournal for me and K. Back in 2005 and 2006, Y had written some “fanfics” about our novel. They had the characters, although they weren’t considered completely canon.
When she deleted me, Y also made her entire livejournal private so only she, and her girlfriend who has her password, could see it. I send an email asking if she’ll briefly unlock those posts so K or I can copy them. I get a short cold email back saying that’s not possible. I thought that maybe this was because she no longer wanted any of her writings in the public domain. K disagrees, and I find myself defending Y, saying that of all her faults, she’s not spiteful.
When K talks to Y, she tells her this, Y’s response is she knows she’s not spiteful and that she tries her hardest not to be. But by the end of the conversation, she tells K the real reason why she won’t unlock the fics: she doesn’t want me to read them. She doesn’t want “to think of [me] being able to read them.”
So that’s how everything ended. I felt so furious after this, after giving her so many chances and always being slapped in the face, after being the only one who kept believing that she could change, because K and others told me to give up on her ages ago. And yet Y thinks the complete opposite of me.
A few weeks ago, I sent Y a very long letter, very long: 30 sides, and made it clear I didn’t want a reply to it. I regret sending it now. Not because of what I said, but how I said it. I feel childish for caring so much. Most of it was angry and the rest was me being too sentimental. And I keep asking myself: why why why did I keep giving her chances? Why why why did I let this affect me so badly? It seemed almost every day last year that there was some news from K about what Y had said of me, which had me in tears. Why did I keep caring? Why didn’t I just shrug ages ago, last year, and think myself better off without such a ‘friend’?
I hate being so sentimental. And now I think I finally have to delete her as a friend on msn. I don’t know why it’s so hard: she’s already deleted me, so I know we will never talk again. But I hate the finality of it. Am I just being weak, self-indulgent, and stupid?
I need to delete someone who was once a close friend on msn, but I can’t bring myself to do it. It’s a really complicated problem that’s been going on for over a year now.
I’ll call them Person Y…because for the length of this entire mess, I’ve kept asking myself why why why. This is the shortened version of a very long drawn out fight.
Person Y and I were involved in a writing project together along with a mutual friend K. It was very time consuming; we would often work for hours and hours on msn either writing or discussing what we had written and what we might write next. We were writing our story in an unusual way – we each chose a character to play and developed the story that way. Because of this, it meant that if anyone dropped out, the whole thing was gone. It was also bad because I think it was due to the relationship of our characters that Person Y fell in love with me. I told her I was straight and so didn’t return the feeling. Person Y tells me nothing will change between us.
A couple of months later, Person Y sends me an email telling me she can’t write anymore. I take it badly. All I could think of was the months we’d spent writing and that we’d now never finish and find out what would be the ending for our characters. I tried to put it all out of mind so that I didn’t keep getting upset. I couldn’t reply to any of Y’s emails, nor those of our other writing partner K for almost two weeks because of this.
I don’t know if I was angry or not with Y having left after saying nothing would change. I was too upset to be angry, but then I found out from K that Y was saying I was being spiteful and punishing her. When K tried to tell Y I was too upset to talk and that I hadn’t talked to her as well for the past two weeks (and clearly I had no reason to “punish” K), Y ignored her.
Y then tells me this herself in emails. I don’t know if I can resent her for leaving the writing project but I was upset that she’d done it and now wasn’t leaving me any time to ‘grieve’ for our work. And that between the choice of believing I was too upset to talk to her and believing I was too spiteful to talk to her, she chose the latter. I tell her this. But Y cannot understand why I would be upset that a friend had chosen to believe this of me.
For the next two weeks, Y and I exchange emails about it. Y says she accepts now that I wasn’t being spiteful and seems to be apologizing. Meanwhile K sends me transcripts of their chat conversations in which Y badmouths me and seems to be saying the opposite of what she said to me. I write to Y about this, the emails seem to take on a more hostile tone. I tell K I won’t speak to Y in a chat myself until I know that she’s changed her mind for sure.
But I give in agree to chat without knowing, and this was a big mistake. We argue a lot about it. Y finally says that yes, she accepts I was too upset to talk to her (nice of her) but that no, she doesn’t see anything wrong with assuming what she did and would do it again. Then Y suddenly tells me I’m bad for her and that she doesn’t want to ever talk to me again.
I cried a lot after that, because I did think now we were definitely no longer friends. This was December 2006. At Christmas time, K talks to us both at the same time online, and then tells me Y does want to talk again. But there was a miscommunication at their end, and K then has to tell me that Y has just confirmed she never wants to speak to me again. She also tells me that Y calls me manipulative. Then a few days later, Y suddenly talks to me as if nothing has happened and asks me why we can’t just move on.
I couldn’t. If this makes sense, I was upset that she couldn’t understand why I would be upset that she couldn’t understand why I was upset…I felt that despite what she said about loving me, she only loved herself or the image she had of me, and that my real feelings didn’t matter. If I thought differently from how she wanted me to, she would ignore it or come up with a reason. She didn’t want me to be upset about something she’d done, so I had to be faking it instead.
Y and I don’t talk for months now. I have her blocked on msn but not deleted. I keep hoping that she’ll change her mind and realize things. In March 07, she tells K that she alternates between loving and loathing me. In April, she finally gets herself a girlfriend who lives in Australia. At that point, I think things are probably lost between us, because if she wouldn’t make the effort to change her behaviour when she was apparently obsessed with me, she’s even less likely to make up now.
This August, though, we do talk a little. Chatting about other stuff, everything except what happened. I feel like Y has changed her mind – she must have, otherwise why talk to me? I don’t ask for an apology to confirm this, because contrary to what she claimed to think, I never wanted to her to go do penance. I just didn’t want her to think it was ok to treat a friend like that. But this was my mistake, because the issue does come up, and Y reveals that she still thinks the same. She tells me that I wasn’t upset all this year; instead that I’m just competitive, that I think this is all a competition between us.
I could write pages about how this, like so many things she says about me, is actually true about her and not me, and I did – I later sent a very long email like this letter writing out why I was upset about what she did, and that I’m giving up on her, no more chances now. The miracle happens. Y apologizes, tells me she is very sorry for everything, and that I’d better stay away from her for my own good. Y also seems slightly suicidal. I tell her that if she says she’ll try to change, that’s enough for me, and we’ll see how that goes.
I hear very little from Y for the next few weeks and fear this is a bad sign. It is. Y finally surfaces and tells me that she didn’t mean what she said before, because she was depressed then. She says that my sending an email to her writing about what she’d done to her me was cruel. She repudiates what she’d said about it.
We also argue about how earlier I sent a message to K about something about our novel and then on K’s advice, forwarded it to Y. Y said that hurt her, and when I asked how the hell my not rewriting the words of an email so she could have her own copy could hurt her when she couldn’t understand how all those things she said about me hurt me, she tells me to **** off. She then says she won’t talk to me anymore, and as I’m in mid-reply, deletes me from her g-chat list.
I’m also deleted from her msn, though for a while I hoped I was just blocked, because msn just shows the blocker/deleter offline. But I am deleted. The next and last contact I ever had with Y since then was this December, when I asked for her to unlock something on her livejournal for me and K. Back in 2005 and 2006, Y had written some “fanfics” about our novel. They had the characters, although they weren’t considered completely canon.
When she deleted me, Y also made her entire livejournal private so only she, and her girlfriend who has her password, could see it. I send an email asking if she’ll briefly unlock those posts so K or I can copy them. I get a short cold email back saying that’s not possible. I thought that maybe this was because she no longer wanted any of her writings in the public domain. K disagrees, and I find myself defending Y, saying that of all her faults, she’s not spiteful.
When K talks to Y, she tells her this, Y’s response is she knows she’s not spiteful and that she tries her hardest not to be. But by the end of the conversation, she tells K the real reason why she won’t unlock the fics: she doesn’t want me to read them. She doesn’t want “to think of [me] being able to read them.”
So that’s how everything ended. I felt so furious after this, after giving her so many chances and always being slapped in the face, after being the only one who kept believing that she could change, because K and others told me to give up on her ages ago. And yet Y thinks the complete opposite of me.
A few weeks ago, I sent Y a very long letter, very long: 30 sides, and made it clear I didn’t want a reply to it. I regret sending it now. Not because of what I said, but how I said it. I feel childish for caring so much. Most of it was angry and the rest was me being too sentimental. And I keep asking myself: why why why did I keep giving her chances? Why why why did I let this affect me so badly? It seemed almost every day last year that there was some news from K about what Y had said of me, which had me in tears. Why did I keep caring? Why didn’t I just shrug ages ago, last year, and think myself better off without such a ‘friend’?
I hate being so sentimental. And now I think I finally have to delete her as a friend on msn. I don’t know why it’s so hard: she’s already deleted me, so I know we will never talk again. But I hate the finality of it. Am I just being weak, self-indulgent, and stupid?
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tl;dr
I delete people routinely! If you've not spoken to me recently, or have upset me, expect to disapear on a friday afternoon.
Not that the above is very helpful to you.
I have to say, whilst I can see why you're upset about the whole situation, you really do have to let it go! Nobody likes to go through 'breakups', and afterwards we're usually inclined to cling on to the remnant of the relationship, in this case I'd say her on your MSN list. Everythings still raw I imagine, and you obviously have a lot of issues to work through still (thirty sides worth!) so why not concentrate on moving forward?.
If you delete her, or if you don't delete her, it doesn't make much of a difference does it? Either way, you're unlikely to keep speak to her anytime soon.
If you're hoping for some sort of reconciliation, I'd say leave her on there, so she can see (if she's bothered) that you're open to her making contact.
If you're sure that the friendship is over, delete her, there's no reason to have her on there. It'll only serve to aggravate you.
Raz
Not that the above is very helpful to you.
I have to say, whilst I can see why you're upset about the whole situation, you really do have to let it go! Nobody likes to go through 'breakups', and afterwards we're usually inclined to cling on to the remnant of the relationship, in this case I'd say her on your MSN list. Everythings still raw I imagine, and you obviously have a lot of issues to work through still (thirty sides worth!) so why not concentrate on moving forward?.
If you delete her, or if you don't delete her, it doesn't make much of a difference does it? Either way, you're unlikely to keep speak to her anytime soon.
If you're hoping for some sort of reconciliation, I'd say leave her on there, so she can see (if she's bothered) that you're open to her making contact.
If you're sure that the friendship is over, delete her, there's no reason to have her on there. It'll only serve to aggravate you.
Raz
shes deleted you, so you might aswell do the same and move on
you've got yourself in a real mess havn't you..
I think the best thing you can do is delete her, or this saga would just carry on causing more damage
I think the best thing you can do is delete her, or this saga would just carry on causing more damage
RyanT
I hope you don't expect people to read that. I have a rule, don't speak to me for 2 weeks and you're off my msn 
Use a similar rule, makes it easier to keep track of who are your friends and who are baggage.
Use a similar rule, makes it easier to keep track of who are your friends and who are baggage.do you mean chat via MSN or real life speaking coz it's a bit daft if it's the latter and you delete them after only two weeks!
What about people who you're friends with who live in other parts of the country? Seems a bit unfair!
During the span of your life, many people will enter it, just as many people will leave it, one way or another. There isn't anything more worthless than holding onto people who contribute to your misery more than your well-being. Especially when you have tried to ameliorate things. Try to objectify your situation to understand this, you're far too involved. The length of your post alone is a scary glimpse of the futile and unnecessary thinking that's taking place in your head.
i am a duck
tl;dr
This, tenfold.
If you can't bring yourself to delete someone don't. Or, realise that you can always re-add them. How long ago was this saga? It may pass, just wait it out. Life's too short to worry about grudges and feuds.
It's also too short to read the entirety of the OP.
*checks his MSN list privacy settings*
...
That ******TT!!!
...
That ******TT!!!Yes, I did think about putting tldr or some warning about internet drama in the subject title, but I had to hurry the post.
I know I feel bitter and that I care way too much about this than I should. It's rational, it's irrational, I can perhaps only compare it to waiting in a queue and you wait a bit longer because you think it's worth waiting, then at some point you feel you have to keep waiting because you don't want all the other waiting to have been for nothing. And so you end up wasting hours and hours, or in my case a year, when you really ought to have given up at the beginning. I guess keeping trying made me overvalue the friendship when it was clearly dead.
I guess it's just that, the longer I kept giving her chances, the harder it became to stop. Ironically, as I'm now aware, the longer it went on, the less likely it became that she would change. So I guess that's how things have ended up. Over a year later, and I just feel so so stupid and weak and angry with myself for having let this drag on for so long. But part of me still thinks it can't all have just been for nothing, and that's the thinking that kept this mess going.
I know I feel bitter and that I care way too much about this than I should. It's rational, it's irrational, I can perhaps only compare it to waiting in a queue and you wait a bit longer because you think it's worth waiting, then at some point you feel you have to keep waiting because you don't want all the other waiting to have been for nothing. And so you end up wasting hours and hours, or in my case a year, when you really ought to have given up at the beginning. I guess keeping trying made me overvalue the friendship when it was clearly dead.
I guess it's just that, the longer I kept giving her chances, the harder it became to stop. Ironically, as I'm now aware, the longer it went on, the less likely it became that she would change. So I guess that's how things have ended up. Over a year later, and I just feel so so stupid and weak and angry with myself for having let this drag on for so long. But part of me still thinks it can't all have just been for nothing, and that's the thinking that kept this mess going.
Profesh
You've never actually met any of these people, have you?
I've met K. I've never met Y in person, thank god. K told me that last year Y got a job in France just so she would be closer to me here in Britain and could visit me. From other things said, there was a while last year when I feared she would turn up on my doorstep and stalk me...
Anonymous
I've met K. I've never met Y in person, thank god. K told me that last year Y got a job in France just so she would be closer to me here in Britain and could visit me. From other things said, there was a while last year when I feared she would turn up on my doorstep and stalk me...
So just get over it
a 30 page letter?! Jesus. Oscar Wilde would be proud.
Oh my god... 1792 words is the shortened version?!
Anyway... Basically, a girl fell in love with you, you didn't reciprocate and she was upset and things got bitter. She wanted more and was just fighting with you because of this. You didn't appreciate this and she didn't appreciate that you'd be hurt by her weird behaviour for no apparent reason and, after a lengthy process you're now still upset about the lost project you were all working on along with the drama and she's moved on.
You know, you were both as bad as each other! Far too dramatic and childish to understand and appreciate the point of the other person.
As for deleting her, you're going to have to do it some time. I can't help but think you've never met these people and spend an unhealthy amount of time obsessing over them and the relationship you've formed. Get out, make other friends and realise that there is so much more to life than the one you've been living for well over a year. If you're not ready to delete her, don't. It makes no difference. But, when you are... just go for it, it's not so sentimental and final as you're making out. You know her address and e-mail address. Not a big deal.
The real issue is your lack of perspective and reality.
Anyway... Basically, a girl fell in love with you, you didn't reciprocate and she was upset and things got bitter. She wanted more and was just fighting with you because of this. You didn't appreciate this and she didn't appreciate that you'd be hurt by her weird behaviour for no apparent reason and, after a lengthy process you're now still upset about the lost project you were all working on along with the drama and she's moved on.
You know, you were both as bad as each other! Far too dramatic and childish to understand and appreciate the point of the other person.
As for deleting her, you're going to have to do it some time. I can't help but think you've never met these people and spend an unhealthy amount of time obsessing over them and the relationship you've formed. Get out, make other friends and realise that there is so much more to life than the one you've been living for well over a year. If you're not ready to delete her, don't. It makes no difference. But, when you are... just go for it, it's not so sentimental and final as you're making out. You know her address and e-mail address. Not a big deal.
The real issue is your lack of perspective and reality.
15 pages but 30 sides, technically.
OK, that' s not much better...
It was handwritten and done without any preparation, just stream of consciousness, so it was very rambling and repetitive. If I'd typed it and edited it, maybe it would have been down to just 3 or 5. I do wish I had been more clinical and think it was childish to show just how upset I was...30 sides, yeah, I know. I just felt I had to try to get the bitterness out somehow. Now I feel embarrassed.
OK, that' s not much better...
It was handwritten and done without any preparation, just stream of consciousness, so it was very rambling and repetitive. If I'd typed it and edited it, maybe it would have been down to just 3 or 5. I do wish I had been more clinical and think it was childish to show just how upset I was...30 sides, yeah, I know. I just felt I had to try to get the bitterness out somehow. Now I feel embarrassed.
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