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Trump and Kim sign historic agreement watch

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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44450739

    US President Donald Trump says his historic talks with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un that ended in a joint agreement were "tremendous".

    The signed document includes a pledge from Mr Kim to rid the Korean peninsula of nuclear weapons. But in an extraordinary media conference later, Mr Trump announced details not in the paper. He said he would halt US military exercises in South Korea, something widely seen as a concession.

    The summit centred on nuclear disarmament and reducing tensions. The agreement said the two countries would co-operate towards "new relations", while the US would provide "security guarantees" to North Korea.


    It feels pretty strange seeing Trump meet, shake hands and exchange smiles with Kim, who let's not forget is probably the worst humans rights abusers in recent history. I hope Trump doesn't get too cosy with him as this will give off the impression of acceptance of Kim as a respected leader in my opinion.
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    (Original post by Ninja Squirrel)
    . He said he would halt US military exercises in South Korea, something widely seen as a concession
    Given they've got ~30,000 personnel permanently based there that'll be an interesting one to work out.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Given they've got ~30,000 personnel permanently based there that'll be an interesting one to work out.
    Well I think he is just referring to the war games that are played out in the Korean Peninsula, I doubt he'll withdraw all the troops from an allied country. Maybe just tone down on the military demonstrations.
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    (Original post by Ninja Squirrel)
    Well I think he is just referring to the war games that are played out in the Korean Peninsula, I doubt he'll withdraw all the troops from an allied country. Maybe just tone down on the military demonstrations.
    Yes, but that depends on the language of the note and agreement.

    At what point do otherwise normal training missions turn in to military exercises that provoke ire?

    The BBC report is quoting Trump as saying he wants to see US troops withdraw from the south...
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    Is it bad that I immediately assumed it was Kim Kardashian?
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    So basically, unless there's some announcement from North Korea over the next few days about some concession on their end (which there could be, but I expect it'll be minor), Trump has given away even more without getting anything concrete in return.

    I mean, personally I'm happy with any outcome that avoids war, but from an American interests perspective, Trump is getting badly played here.

    Obviously hard to know if Kim promised anything in the 1-on-1 meeting, but if he's smart he won't overplay his hand now. He'll drop a few small tokens over the course of the rest of Trump's presidency (maybe sign the CTBT, for instance), and then start dragging his feet as soon as someone else is in the White House.
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    (Original post by Ninja Squirrel)
    Well I think he is just referring to the war games that are played out in the Korean Peninsula, I doubt he'll withdraw all the troops from an allied country. Maybe just tone down on the military demonstrations.
    It's not part of the deal, but he's unilaterally brought up the possibility of US troops withdrawing from the peninsula. It's a pretty significant chip to put into play for a statement that objectively amounts to little.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    So basically, unless there's some announcement from North Korea over the next few days about some concession on their end (which there could be, but I expect it'll be minor), Trump has given away even more without getting anything concrete in return.

    I mean, personally I'm happy with any outcome that avoids war, but from an American interests perspective, Trump is getting badly played here.

    Obviously hard to know if Kim promised anything in the 1-on-1 meeting, but if he's smart he won't overplay his hand now. He'll drop a few small tokens over the course of the rest of Trump's presidency (maybe sign the CTBT, for instance), and then start dragging his feet as soon as someone else is in the White House.
    Well they destroyed their nuclear missile test site without anything in return so far so if anything it's North Korea who have given concessions, not America. I suspect as dialogue continues, I expect further progress and both sides willing to concede on certain things.

    (Original post by TeeEff)
    It's not part of the deal, but he's unilaterally brought up the possibility of US troops withdrawing from the peninsula. It's a pretty significant chip to put into play for a statement that objectively amounts to little.
    I'm surprised he would even consider that because a few months ago he said U.S troops withdrawing from Japan / South Korea is out of the question... Although this is Trump we're talking about and it's not unlike him to change his mind on a whim.

    Maybe they'll come to some agreement where the military exercises with stop and the U.S will drastically reduce the amount of military personal in the Korean Peninsula.
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    (Original post by Ninja Squirrel)
    Well they destroyed their nuclear missile test site without anything in return
    They got a summit with the US President in return. Kim's family have wanted that for 70 years.

    Also, the test site destruction is barely a concession for three reasons:
    i) They could reconstruct it if they really wanted to (which they probably don't, but still).
    ii) They have other test sites.
    iii) Most importantly, they don't really need to do any more tests. They've got the nukes they want. Six tests was enough for India and Pakistan to be confident of their nuclear capabilities, it'll likely be enough for North Korea too.

    so far so if anything it's North Korea who have given concessions, not America.
    Trump conceded the summit itself, something Kim was desperate for. Now he's conceded the war games, and he's indicated he's willing to give up USFK too. He's giving stuff away all over the place.


    I'm surprised he would even consider that because a few months ago he said U.S troops withdrawing from Japan / South Korea is out of the question... Although this is Trump we're talking about and it's not unlike him to change his mind on a whim.
    True, but it does generally fit with Trump's whole "America First" worldview. I don't think it'll be hard to convince him to go ahead with a withdrawal.

    And sure, he changes his mind, but he's built this up into a big deal. I'm not sure he'll want to admit that his big foreign policy "win" was actually a big failure where he duped. This isn't like the G7 statement, which he was already reluctant to sign before his renunciation of it.
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    I seriously doubt North korea will give up theirs nukes and it doesn’t favour them to.This is a guy who tore up the Iran nuclear deal,so why should Kim trust Trump to keep any promises when he tears them up at will ?
    Kim is the winner,by looking at the announcement.America stops vital military exercises in return for a vaguely worded denuclearisation promise from north korea that will probably never happen.
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    (Original post by Ninja Squirrel)

    It feels pretty strange seeing Trump meet, shake hands and exchange smiles with Kim, who let's not forget is probably the worst humans rights abusers in recent history. I hope Trump doesn't get too cosy with him as this will give off the impression of acceptance of Kim as a respected leader in my opinion.
    Have you got a better idea?

    Of course, we can disrespect Kim, and keep the status quo for another
    50 years.
    Or attack them and make everyone on the peninsula slaughtered.
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    (Original post by bobby147)
    I seriously doubt North korea will give up theirs nukes and it doesn’t favour them to.This is a guy who tore up the Iran nuclear deal,so why should Kim trust Trump to keep any promises when he tears them up at will ?
    Kim is the winner,by looking at the announcement.America stops vital military exercises in return for a vaguely worded denuclearisation promise from north korea that will probably never happen.
    Well in all fairness it wasn't Trump who made that agreement with Iran, the last thing Trump would want to do is go back on his own agreement because it makes him look like a bad negotiator, you know how he is always bragging about being the best deal maker.

    (Original post by PTMalewski)
    Have you got a better idea?

    Of course, we can disrespect Kim, and keep the status quo for another
    50 years.
    Or attack them and make everyone on the peninsula slaughtered.
    I'm just saying I hope Trump doesn't get too cosy as this is still a tyrant human rights abuser we're dealing with.
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    (Original post by Ninja Squirrel)
    Well in all fairness it wasn't Trump who made that agreement with Iran, the last thing Trump would want to do is go back on his own agreement because it makes him look like a bad negotiator, you know how he is always bragging about being the best deal maker.



    I'm just saying I hope Trump doesn't get too cosy as this is still a tyrant human rights abuser we're dealing with.
    Agreements are meant to be kept ,regardless of the administration.
    You look at the results of this agreement .Does it look like a good deal to you ?
    Who do you think. benefits more from this ?
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    They got a summit with the US President in return. Kim's family have wanted that for 70 years.

    Also, the test site destruction is barely a concession for three reasons:
    i) They could reconstruct it if they really wanted to (which they probably don't, but still).
    ii) They have other test sites.
    iii) Most importantly, they don't really need to do any more tests. They've got the nukes they want. Six tests was enough for India and Pakistan to be confident of their nuclear capabilities, it'll likely be enough for North Korea too.



    Trump conceded the summit itself, something Kim was desperate for. Now he's conceded the war games, and he's indicated he's willing to give up USFK too. He's giving stuff away all over the place.




    True, but it does generally fit with Trump's whole "America First" worldview. I don't think it'll be hard to convince him to go ahead with a withdrawal.

    And sure, he changes his mind, but he's built this up into a big deal. I'm not sure he'll want to admit that his big foreign policy "win" was actually a big failure where he duped. This isn't like the G7 statement, which he was already reluctant to sign before his renunciation of it.
    ^This.It seems obvious to everyone except the OP that this deal benefits North Korea,not Trump.
    Trump was desperate for this summit to take place.,so he can seem like a legitimate negotiator.
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    It's been fun to see the Trumpophobes looking for whatever scraps they can gather, from ABC's 'how can you talk to such a horrible man' to the 'suspending the military exercises is going to endanger the region' type of desperate nonsense. Still smarting from the high of the 'cancellation' and hopes that nothing whatsoever would come of any talks, they are all still wishing for nothing to happen in case Trump gets some credit for it.

    Had it been Obama and they would all be down on their knees and taking it all in, Trump is absolutely right in having nothing but contempt for them and clearing the newsroom from the brand of activist-journo they all seem to be these days. Did you talk to him about HR, CNN wanted to know in their bubble and eagerness to criticise Trump for anything.

    We had some enlightened contributors here musing about how 'naive' people were for believing anything would ever happen, they were in cloud nine when Trump cancelled the meeting. Our sympathies lie with them and hopefully they will one day come out of that enlightened stage and join the real world.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0adfb826d8eeb

    Donald Trump's 'Historic' Meeting With Kim Jong Un 'Seems To Have Yielded Nothing'
    The Huff Post is one of those deplorable rags that has nothing to do with objective or impartial journalism, they are in the pocket of the anti-Trump camp as much as that of the anti-Brexit. To look for any real information on the world you really have to look elsewhere, as fake as they come.
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    (Original post by bobby147)
    Agreements are meant to be kept ,regardless of the administration.
    You look at the results of this agreement .Does it look like a good deal to you ?
    Who do you think. benefits more from this ?
    Of course they are but this is Trump we're talking about... A man who has made it his mission to overturn almost every decision / agreement made by Obama.

    I don't know enough about the agreement yet to decide if it's good or not, it's only day one and only the basics have been mentioned. We'll need to give it more time and see what each side is willing to agree to.

    Obviously North Korea will benefit the most from the agreement but you know Trump will have a hard on for years to come if he succeeds in being the man who put North Korea back in it's cage and got them to give up their nukes. It's all about ego to Trump, don't think it's about anything else.

    The only thing Trump puts before America is himself so make no mistake Trump wants this to succeed as much as Kim so he can gloat about it to the world.
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    (Original post by zhog)
    It's been fun to see the Trumpophobes looking for whatever scraps they can gather, from ABC's 'how can you talk to such a horrible man' to the 'suspending the military exercises is going to endanger the region' type of desperate nonsense. Still smarting from the high of the 'cancellation' and hopes that nothing whatsoever would come of any talks, they are all still wishing for nothing to happen in case Trump gets some credit for it.
    Nobody in this thread has expressed anything close to what you're suggesting here. Consider taking your invented strawman elsewhere, thanks.
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    (Original post by Axiomasher)
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    You seen the fox news clip where they presenter refers to the "dictators".

    :rofl:
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    Nothing significant here. How many times have North Korea agreed to denuclearisation and gone back on their word? 2007 and 2005 immediately spring to mind.

    Combined with the fact Trump has decided (it appears) to cease the joint exercises..I fail to see how he’s won here. In fact, it seems like he lost this.
 
 
 
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