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Why feminism isn't about equality.

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Reply 40
Feminism IS equality. Just because the radical feminists you see on the media sometimes are extreme does not mean that is what feminism truly is. Don’t always believe everything you see on TV🤦*♀️ feminists don’t only look at female problems, they do also look at the suicide rates and how men are victims of more violent crimes. Educate yourself first instead of just going off what the media represents. Feminism literally means equality for all.
Reply 41
Original post by TastyChicken
If all feminists acted like yourself then there would be little to no arguments as the majority of comments that you advocate for are perfectly reasonable and in line with global opinions. I do think however, that little would be achieved in prouncing such a passive voice and framework. Sometimes radical views are neccessary to expose the inefficiencies and underlying problems.

The reason why many feminists become discredited, is in their attitude and aggression towards debates and discussions. They often ignore stastical data and only visualize their own ludicrously deluded ideas, without contemplating opponents views. They have given themselves a bad name and degraded their own movement.

Issues like the gender gap can be explained though use of facts and data, yet they are adamant that women should be earning the same as men. Should worse workers be earning as much as top workers? (Not sugesting that women are necessary worse workers than men). What im trying to get at is, there are many complexities involved in the measuring of such functions, so to pronounce the world as an enemy towards oneself is rather crude and pointless. Feminists never include the supposed perks that women boast in society. Furthermore, feminists are causing other women to be unhappy and occasionally are threatening an increase in unemployment for women.

These sorts of discussions are necessary to reduce tensions between the two genders. We are tearing relations apart and segregating cities and nations further than ever before. Women dominate universities and education in developed countries, yet we still refer to them as intimidated and undermined by men?

I admit, we should now seek to allow girls equal opportunities in less developed nations. Issues associated with such nations can be solved over time with the improvement of the education system. This doesn't mean that we desire equity of outcomes between men and women, one is allowed to be better than the other, as long equal opportunity is given to both. Men will dominate particlar sectors whilst, women will dominate others. We are inherently different and should celebrate those differences instead of seeking homogeneity.


Can you please expand on your third paragraph. Especially the first and last sentences.
Original post by temzra
Can you please expand on your third paragraph. Especially the first and last sentences.


Im supposed to be on holiday... not writing essays. Give me some time, I’ll expand them and hopefully clear up my opinion.
Reply 43
Original post by TastyChicken
Im supposed to be on holiday... not writing essays. Give me some time, I’ll expand them and hopefully clear up my opinion.


Lol that’s fine. Make sure you enjoy your holiday.
Original post by temzra
Lol that’s fine. Make sure you enjoy your holiday.


My view concerning the gender pay gap is rather controversial and probably incomplete. I’ll make sure to take the time eventually to consider the debate again. Once I’ve reached a forfilled knowledge base I will come back to you regarding the matter. In short I think it exists for the right reasons, the matter is more complicated than people make out and many assumptions and limitations exist in the making of existing graphs. Im a uni student, so Im going to be reasonably unreliable most of the time, this how I learn though and I dont mind taking controversial viewpoints, as its exciting and challenging.
Reply 45


I seem to remember something about the police hiding evidence that proved a man was innocent just to try to get convictions.

The reason for the 2nd one answers why “Noting that there were fewer submissions to The Psychologist by women”

Absolutely no evidence in your last piece
Reply 46
Original post by esralled
How many times have you felt unsafe walking alone at night? If you asked a woman that, what would they say?"
?

Well the good news is that women are a lot less likely to be victims of violent crime, so would you rather feel safer but more likely to be a victim or feel less safe but be a lot less likely to be a victim?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/10752232/Our-attitude-to-violence-against-men-is-out-of-date.html
Reply 47
Original post by Etcetcetc
As much as feminists like to argue that feminism is about equality, in practice and core values, it isn't. Here's why:

Every group who wants equality believes that everyone should have equal rights. Feminists believe this too, but the problem is that they believe that women don't already have equal rights.
Every group in the UK already has equal rights. They are treated the same by the legal system and they have the same opportunities in the education system. The law states that women already have equal rights.
Yet feminists believe that the law should change to favour them, giving them more opportunities over men and that every person should give priority to minorities, even though they go through the same education system and are treated the same by the law.
This core value of feminism destroys the idea that it stands for equal rights, because it fails to recognise the equality that already exists and as a result, it believes that the law should be changed to favour those who are not the 'cis white male' group.

Also because anyone who opposes feminism is belittled and called a Nazi, which is quite a horrible thing to call anyone.



I am a feminist, in my eyes there are problems that both women and men face, but because I am a women I can voice my issues more clearly than for a man because I do not face the same problems as they do. I believe feminism is about the equality of men and women however it is harder in first world countries or the west to define what this means because the law gives females the same opportunity. What I believe is that some cases in society, it does not treat women equally to men. Obviously there are many who are liberal and believe women are equal to any other gender however yes for example ‘slut shaming’ is one clear example where a women is judged upon cause of her sexual practises whilst men are deemed in a far better light. Even among women I hear girls being called ‘slüts’ or ‘whöres’ or plain ‘bitçhes’ cause they have *****d many boys. But when a guy does it he and his friends might take pride in being a ‘womaniser’ or a ‘f*ckboy’. Again I reiterate that some people would look at him as a ‘man-slüt’ or negatively but it is far more common to hear ‘slût’ describing a girl than a boy. There are cases where a women should dress modestly if they want to be treated right however a woman should be allowed to wear what she would like as can a man- and should have the right not to be mistreated sexually. I do not hate cis white men, and I am a brown girl. I do not hate them, why should I treat them differently? I know that some are more privileged and may look down upon women. But the men I know treat me with respect. There are cases when some ‘feminists’ hate cis white men, this in my eyes is not feminism, but many should also realise that in society the white working class has the hardest social mobility than any other class. Just cause I am a feminist does not mean I look at other genders in an uglier light or a light that puts them above me so that I can act bitter towards them. I am a feminist because I know that in other countries , women are treated awfully in cases of education or being married early without their consent or how they are forced to stay at home. there, the law or government has nothing in place to give them equal rights. In the west, especially in the uk, women are given these rights. The law does not prevent women to go forward to take any job and do the best they can. However it is slightly harder for women to get the top job in their company as seen in ftse100. This is beginning to change but slowly cause change takes time to take place- however women do not get these jobs maybe cause of their potential to become mothers or that they do not want it. I believe society pushes women to grow up to be the nurturers, to be the caring ones. I mean how many girls are given barbies, babies to play with this might look harmless but it is innately sexist. I believe boys or any other genders can also be given babies or barbies to play with whilst girls can dress in the colour blue as a child be given a football to kick about and not be called a ‘tomboy’. The law does not affect women as harshly as in other countries, yet abortion or the tampon tax should be predominately talked about with women being representatives of each. It is not a luxury to have periods, I can tell you from experience, and abortions- yes the father has a say and so does religion, but in the government women should be the ones talking about this too. Not just passed on by men. Even periods are regarded as a taboo subject between men and women which it shouldn’t be- it should be accepted. In other countries, women having periods are disregarded as being ‘dirty’ even though it is natural- and as a feminist I do not believe this should be the case. I really really do not want women to be above any group - that would defeat the whole purpose of feminism. I just want girls to be treated equally by society, and the law is there to prove that we too are equals to any other gender. I want, not laws to enforce women are better than men (as women can be awful as men can be too), but encouragement since an early age that women can be anything to not be judged if they don’t like pink or makeup. To not be judged if they DO like pink and wearing a ton of foundation on their face. If they want to be a rugby player they shouldn’t be called ‘different’ or a ‘slut’ if they wear crop tops and skirts that ride up to show their knickers. to not be called a 'nun' for being too frigid or wear modest clothes. They can do anything as men can. Men should be able to wear no tshirts and not be judged. To have long hair. And obviously there are cases where men are judged for crying , for being more ‘feminine’, to be less of a man because they are not massive, tall with a six pack- and this, us being the new generation, should be something of the past- this is my definition of feminism and if you don’t agree with me I don’t care. I just want you to know not all feminists are man-haters, cis-white people haters and people who believe ‘women are 1000x better’ cause no one is better than someone else- it is due to their character, not their appearance, gender, sex or race that determines who is better. I also WOULD NEVER say anyone is a nazi for not being a feminist- and if you do- idk its just wrong
In practice modern feminism is about championing women, highlighting societal past injustices against females and campaigning on issues where women are believed to negatively targeted or disproportionately disadvantaged.

I'm not including radical feminism or the women's lib movement- which are pretty much self explanatory and very open about the fact that they don't believe in gender equality.

I'm female but not a feminist.
The reason why I am not a feminist is because I believe in justice for everyone- irrespective of demographic groupings.
I don't prioritize any specific group- gender, biological sex, social class, sexual orientation, religious preferences.

Original post by ByEeek
There is nothing like a rant of sweeping statements and generalisations.

Women do not have an equal stake in our society. It is plain for all to see. Feminism is about the pursuit of equality. Look it up in a dictionary.

However that is not to say that some women take it to extreme levels or that inequality in society lies on the male side of the line. But to slam all feminists in one post is just short sighted and ignorant.
Reply 49
Original post by TastyChicken
My view concerning the gender pay gap is rather controversial and probably incomplete. I’ll make sure to take the time eventually to consider the debate again. Once I’ve reached a forfilled knowledge base I will come back to you regarding the matter. In short I think it exists for the right reasons, the matter is more complicated than people make out and many assumptions and limitations exist in the making of existing graphs. Im a uni student, so Im going to be reasonably unreliable most of the time, this how I learn though and I dont mind taking controversial viewpoints, as its exciting and challenging.


I’m 17 and I’m currently doing my a levels so fair enough. But I make my opinions from studying rs and just self research really. It’s good to be controversial as long as you can explain your points lol, I’m just trying to understand how people see things and why.
I do think it is a complicated matter but having had debates and class discussions on topics such as the gender pay gap, I do have the impression that some guys just believe that men should get paid more because they work harder and even because they wouldn’t want their spouse to earn more than them, which is just unfair and inaccurate in my opinion.
Sure take your time over the topic but make sure to enjoy your holiday.
Original post by 8ee
I am a feminist, in my eyes there are problems that both women and men face, but because I am a women I can voice my issues more clearly than for a man because I do not face the same problems as they do. I believe feminism is about the equality of men and women however it is harder in first world countries or the west to define what this means because the law gives females the same opportunity. What I believe is that some cases in society, it does not treat women equally to men. Obviously there are many who are liberal and believe women are equal to any other gender however yes for example ‘slut shaming’ is one clear example where a women is judged upon cause of her sexual practises whilst men are deemed in a far better light. Even among women I hear girls being called ‘slüts’ or ‘whöres’ or plain ‘bitçhes’ cause they have *****d many boys. But when a guy does it he and his friends might take pride in being a ‘womaniser’ or a ‘f*ckboy’. Again I reiterate that some people would look at him as a ‘man-slüt’ or negatively but it is far more common to hear ‘slût’ describing a girl than a boy. There are cases where a women should dress modestly if they want to be treated right however a woman should be allowed to wear what she would like as can a man- and should have the right not to be mistreated sexually. I do not hate cis white men, and I am a brown girl. I do not hate them, why should I treat them differently? I know that some are more privileged and may look down upon women. But the men I know treat me with respect. There are cases when some ‘feminists’ hate cis white men, this in my eyes is not feminism, but many should also realise that in society the white working class has the hardest social mobility than any other class. Just cause I am a feminist does not mean I look at other genders in an uglier light or a light that puts them above me so that I can act bitter towards them. I am a feminist because I know that in other countries , women are treated awfully in cases of education or being married early without their consent or how they are forced to stay at home. there, the law or government has nothing in place to give them equal rights. In the west, especially in the uk, women are given these rights. The law does not prevent women to go forward to take any job and do the best they can. However it is slightly harder for women to get the top job in their company as seen in ftse100. This is beginning to change but slowly cause change takes time to take place- however women do not get these jobs maybe cause of their potential to become mothers or that they do not want it. I believe society pushes women to grow up to be the nurturers, to be the caring ones. I mean how many girls are given barbies, babies to play with this might look harmless but it is innately sexist. I believe boys or any other genders can also be given babies or barbies to play with whilst girls can dress in the colour blue as a child be given a football to kick about and not be called a ‘tomboy’. The law does not affect women as harshly as in other countries, yet abortion or the tampon tax should be predominately talked about with women being representatives of each. It is not a luxury to have periods, I can tell you from experience, and abortions- yes the father has a say and so does religion, but in the government women should be the ones talking about this too. Not just passed on by men. Even periods are regarded as a taboo subject between men and women which it shouldn’t be- it should be accepted. In other countries, women having periods are disregarded as being ‘dirty’ even though it is natural- and as a feminist I do not believe this should be the case. I really really do not want women to be above any group - that would defeat the whole purpose of feminism. I just want girls to be treated equally by society, and the law is there to prove that we too are equals to any other gender. I want, not laws to enforce women are better than men (as women can be awful as men can be too), but encouragement since an early age that women can be anything to not be judged if they don’t like pink or makeup. To not be judged if they DO like pink and wearing a ton of foundation on their face. If they want to be a rugby player they shouldn’t be called ‘different’ or a ‘slut’ if they wear crop tops and skirts that ride up to show their knickers. to not be called a 'nun' for being too frigid or wear modest clothes. They can do anything as men can. Men should be able to wear no tshirts and not be judged. To have long hair. And obviously there are cases where men are judged for crying , for being more ‘feminine’, to be less of a man because they are not massive, tall with a six pack- and this, us being the new generation, should be something of the past- this is my definition of feminism and if you don’t agree with me I don’t care. I just want you to know not all feminists are man-haters, cis-white people haters and people who believe ‘women are 1000x better’ cause no one is better than someone else- it is due to their character, not their appearance, gender, sex or race that determines who is better. I also WOULD NEVER say anyone is a nazi for not being a feminist- and if you do- idk its just wrong


Paragraphs would have been greatly appreciated.
Reply 51
Original post by TastyChicken
Paragraphs would have been greatly appreciated.


sorry sweetheart hahahah xx
Original post by Etcetcetc
As much as feminists like to argue that feminism is about equality, in practice and core values, it isn't. Here's why:

Every group who wants equality believes that everyone should have equal rights. Feminists believe this too, but the problem is that they believe that women don't already have equal rights.
Every group in the UK already has equal rights. They are treated the same by the legal system and they have the same opportunities in the education system. The law states that women already have equal rights.
Yet feminists believe that the law should change to favour them, giving them more opportunities over men and that every person should give priority to minorities, even though they go through the same education system and are treated the same by the law.
This core value of feminism destroys the idea that it stands for equal rights, because it fails to recognise the equality that already exists and as a result, it believes that the law should be changed to favour those who are not the 'cis white male' group.

Also because anyone who opposes feminism is belittled and called a Nazi, which is quite a horrible thing to call anyone.


What is a Nazi?
I'm female and work at a law firm.
The media did spin what happened in several rape cases to create a sensationalist story about deliberately hiding evidence in pursuit of rape convictions but the reality was very different.
The problems were largely accidental, arising from CPS spread too thin as a result of staff shortages and a culture of CPS lawyers delegating their work to the police.

There was no evil conspiracy to convict innocent men of rape.
The police did their best and acted in good faith but lacked legal qualifications, practical CPS experience and the legal training in CPS disclosure requirements at court to comply with the established standards that the law demands of the CPS.

The CPS are the qualified lawyers who are trained in legal rules of evidence and criminal case disclosures.
The CPS have been subject to substantial government cuts which have drastically reduced their workforce, sold off CPS buildings and forced CPS to move into police premises with shared facilities.
The CPS working day is highly stressful, the workload is high and the criminal cases can be horrific.

As a result of the cuts and huge workload, many senior CPS lawyers delegate evidence disclosure and fulfilment of criminal defence lawyer information requests to the police.
Police officers are not trained to be lawyers nor to undertake CPS duties as regards legal advice or due process when prosecuting at criminal courts.

Most non-lawyers would have made the same mistakes, with the same consequence.
Its the legal training and criminal court experience that teaches what evidence needs to be investigated and disclosed.
The Police were sent to do a job that they were not intended for, had no training in and ultimately could not perform.

Original post by Joep95
I seem to remember something about the police hiding evidence that proved a man was innocent just to try to get convictions.

The reason for the 2nd one answers why “Noting that there were fewer submissions to The Psychologist by women”

Absolutely no evidence in your last piece
Reply 54
Original post by londonmyst
In practice modern feminism is about championing women, highlighting societal past injustices against females and campaigning on issues where women are believed to negatively targeted or disproportionately disadvantaged.

I'm not including radical feminism or the women's lib movement- which are pretty much self explanatory and very open about the fact that they don't believe in gender equality.

I'm female but not a feminist.
The reason why I am not a feminist is because I believe in justice for everyone- irrespective of demographic groupings.
I don't prioritize any specific group- gender, biological sex, social class, sexual orientation, religious preferences.



I think that you can still be a feminist and believe in justice for everyone. Especially since the definition of a feminist is someone who advocates/ supports rights for women to men being equal. So if you essentially do support that women should have rights equal to men then you’re ultimately a feminist. You don’t need to prioritise supporting in gender equality.
Reply 55
Original post by bobbins888
What is a Nazi?


Is this a serious question sorry
Original post by temzra
Is this a serious question sorry


Yes
Reply 57
Original post by bobbins888
Yes


Dictionary : a person who is fanatically dedicated to or seeks to regulate a specified activity
A Nazi was also someone who was a member of the national socialist party in Germany, who had Hitler as their fuhrer. I’m just gonna assume that you know about him and what he did.
Original post by temzra
Dictionary : a person who is fanatically dedicated to or seeks to regulate a specified activity
A Nazi was also someone who was a member of the national socialist party in Germany, who had Hitler as their fuhrer. I’m just gonna assume that you know about him and what he did.


A specified activity? Who is doing the specifying? Hitler interned Jews in camps during the war in the same way that Americans interned Japanese people in America.
My father agrees with you, he's an intersectional feminist.
But even with him feminism is the priority and always comes first.
This has led to fights with self professed feminist females who either have other priorities (like legalisation/criminalisation of the sex industry) or say they don't believe in gender equality but still claim to be feminists.

Original post by temzra
I think that you can still be a feminist and believe in justice for everyone. Especially since the definition of a feminist is someone who advocates/ supports rights for women to men being equal. So if you essentially do support that women should have rights equal to men then you’re ultimately a feminist. You don’t need to prioritise supporting in gender equality.

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