Intelligence is a myth Watch

Tankinator
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There seems to be a general admiration for those who appear to possess a "natural" intelligence.

How exactly do you determine if someone is "naturally" intelligent? The observable functionality of any brain is dependent on practice and exposure. For example, take two different people. One who practices a lot of sport regularly and another who never plays sport. They are both introduced to a brand new sport at the same time. It would be expected that the sportsman picks up the new sport faster and better than the non -sportsman, but this can't be attributed to his "natural born talent". What is really being tested here is their experience in kinaesthetic activities.
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3pointonefour
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(Original post by Tankinator)
There seems to be a general admiration for those who appear to possess a "natural" intelligence.

How exactly do you determine if someone is "naturally" intelligent? The observable functionality of any brain is dependent on practice and exposure. For example, take two different people. One who practices a lot of sport regularly and another who never plays sport. They are both introduced to a brand new sport at the same time. It would be expected that the sportsman picks up the new sport faster and better than the non -sportsman, but this can't be attributed to his "natural born talent". What is really being tested here is their experience in kinaesthetic activities.
When most people refer to "natural intelligence", I assume they refer to a natural tendency to understand certain things quicker. There are some people who have brains which can pick up things off a certain subject easier. Though nurture is much more important than nature, I believe the latter still exists
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Joleee
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imho a) if they learn quickly, b) if they think quickly, c) good memory, d) good analysis.

otherwise you're considered 'slow'.
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Zaspo
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Everything is a myth. Even I am a...
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haseeb_jarral
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(Original post by Tankinator)
There seems to be a general admiration for those who appear to possess a "natural" intelligence.

How exactly do you determine if someone is "naturally" intelligent? The observable functionality of any brain is dependent on practice and exposure. For example, take two different people. One who practices a lot of sport regularly and another who never plays sport. They are both introduced to a brand new sport at the same time. It would be expected that the sportsman picks up the new sport faster and better than the non -sportsman, but this can't be attributed to his "natural born talent". What is really being tested here is their experience in kinaesthetic activities.
This actually kinda makes sense...
But I reckon natural intelligence just refers to the ability to understand things faster. Obviously, practical experiences can be a dominant factor.
As for intelligence being a 'myth' - I don't think it goes that far
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applesforme
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and oxford still didn't accept you...
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babushka23
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your dads a myth
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RuneFreeze
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It's just not true to say that intelligence isn't a thing; that's a factually incorrect statement that ignores the mountain of evidence to the contrary.

However, obviously, intelligence isn't just a product of genetics. Fluid intelligence (roughly speaking, the ability to learn and problem solve), is highly dependent on nutrition and intellectual stimulation in the early years of childhood, hence the Flynn Effect (increase in the IQ of american children over last 100 years by a very significant margin.) Fluid intelligence is, however, pretty much fixed by the late teens.

Crystallized intelligence (roughly summarized as knowledge) will increase over the course of most people's lifetime.

Your talking about something very different which is skills and practice in sport (coordination, athletic performance, confidence in social interaction) which of course you will improve if you do a lot of it. Ability to solve abstract problems, not so much.
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remiaitman
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intelligence consists mainly of perceptual reasoning tests (learning speed), spatial reasoning (block arrangement) and matrix reasoning (non-verbal icon pattern tests) natural intelligence is arguably down to genes and can be explained by its reference to an extremely wide variety of interpersonal, emotional, extrapersonal, intellectual, logical, creative and kinaesthetic skills however modern day society typically associates natural intelligence with that of people with mathematical logical abilities that are higher than others; natural intelligence usually allows people to excel in their field of specified intelligence
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Kindred
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There are certain traits and personalities which can lend themselves to picking up ideas quicker or generally being better at a thing. That's about the closest I think you can get to "natural intelligence". There are so many other factors that will play a role in how good somebody is at things/ how intelligent they are though.

So for instance some people have their brains wired in such a way that they have poor coordination (think dyspraxia). That means on the flip side sine people naturally have better coordination. That gives them a starting boost when it comes to sports and brings them a step closer to potentially being a pro footballer. But other things will also contribute, for better or worse. Maybe they have a malformed foot, maybe they never got introduced to football, maybe they don't practice enough. Maybe somebody else doesn't have as good natural coordination, but have a personality where they can practice the same thing a lot, had an inspiring PE teacher and generally good fitness.

Some people were wired in ways that help them see patterns easily, handle multiple things in their head at one time, remember specific details, hear and recognise tube and pitch. We're all wired a bit differently and that does give us a bit of an edge with certain things, but it's by no means all there is to it.
And the idea of a single definition of intelligence is also quite frankly a load of carp. There are so many different types of knowledge and skill that you can't really quantify intelligence.

So yeah I reckon there is something to be said for the idea of an innate level of skill or ability, bit it's not a huge deal and it doesn't equate to bring "naturally intelligent,".
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RuneFreeze
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(Original post by Kindred)
There are certain traits and personalities which can lend themselves to picking up ideas quicker or generally being better at a thing. That's about the closest I think you can get to "natural intelligence". There are so many other factors that will play a role in how good somebody is at things/ how intelligent they are though.

So for instance some people have their brains wired in such a way that they have poor coordination (think dyspraxia). That means on the flip side sine people naturally have better coordination. That gives them a starting boost when it comes to sports and brings them a step closer to potentially being a pro footballer. But other things will also contribute, for better or worse. Maybe they have a malformed foot, maybe they never got introduced to football, maybe they don't practice enough. Maybe somebody else doesn't have as good natural coordination, but have a personality where they can practice the same thing a lot, had an inspiring PE teacher and generally good fitness.

Some people were wired in ways that help them see patterns easily, handle multiple things in their head at one time, remember specific details, hear and recognise tube and pitch. We're all wired a bit differently and that does give us a bit of an edge with certain things, but it's by no means all there is to it.
And the idea of a single definition of intelligence is also quite frankly a load of carp. There are so many different types of knowledge and skill that you can't really quantify intelligence.

So yeah I reckon there is something to be said for the idea of an innate level of skill or ability, bit it's not a huge deal and it doesn't equate to bring "naturally intelligent,".
Again, sport is a completely different thing to intelligence.
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Kindred
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(Original post by RuneFreeze)
Again, sport is a completely different thing to intelligence.
And like I said I don't particularly agree with a specific idea of intelligence.
I honestly think anybody who knows all the rules to a sport and is capable of baring them in mind while running, bouncing a ball, avoiding other players etc is pretty intelligent in at least that sense.
I was using sport as an example of multiple factors playing a role in how good somebody is at something. Replace coordination with processing numbers and football with advanced calculus and hey presto you've applied the idea to a more traditional idea of intelligence.

On that note, open-mindedness is also an asset in developing some types of "intelligence". Helps in topics like psychology where you need to bare in mind the potential impact of multiple factors on one outcome and applying a basic concept to varied circumstances.
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RuneFreeze
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I don't disagree with any of what you just said, except your justification for what is essentially the redefinition of the word intelligence which has (at least technically) a very precise, defined, and measurable definition. Of course there are loads of factors that effect loads of different activities (in most sports the main one is athletic performance) but that doesn't mean you just get to lump together loads of traits into a word that already means something specific. It's not up to you to "agree" with it.
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username3012438
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Gender is a myth

IQ is a myth

Race is a myth

Everything is a myth in the lally dally land of students and postmodernism.
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Tankinator
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(Original post by RuneFreeze)
It's just not true to say that intelligence isn't a thing; that's a factually incorrect statement that ignores the mountain of evidence to the contrary.

However, obviously, intelligence isn't just a product of genetics. Fluid intelligence (roughly speaking, the ability to learn and problem solve), is highly dependent on nutrition and intellectual stimulation in the early years of childhood, hence the Flynn Effect (increase in the IQ of american children over last 100 years by a very significant margin.) Fluid intelligence is, however, pretty much fixed by the late teens.

Crystallized intelligence (roughly summarized as knowledge) will increase over the course of most people's lifetime.

Your talking about something very different which is skills and practice in sport (coordination, athletic performance, confidence in social interaction) which of course you will improve if you do a lot of it. Ability to solve abstract problems, not so much.
Ability to solve abstract problems does improve significantly if you do a lot of it.. it's well known in the neuroscientific community that repetition of any activity be it a sport or maths problems actually increases the quantity of neuron connections in the brain, hence helping it to work faster.

My initial point was worded badly, so I think you misunderstood it.

What I meant to say is that it's impossible to effectively gauge someones natural born intelligence in the real world, because all of your interactions with them and experiences of them are subject to how well practiced and experienced they are at certain tasks.

So to reword my initial analogy - It's not easy to gauge someones natural born intelligence by observing them complete an activity for example, because their proficiency in said activity will be subject to their experience in doing similar activities, their knowledge of picking up a new skill and how best to learn it, and how well developed the section(s) of the brain that deals with said activity is (how many neuron connections they have made in the past).
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Tankinator
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(Original post by RuneFreeze)
Again, sport is a completely different thing to intelligence.
It's not. Performance at a sport comes under kinaesthetic ability (coordination, spatial awareness, reaction speed) which is a form of intelligence.
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Princepieman
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(Original post by Tankinator)
It's not. Performance at a sport comes under kinaesthetic ability (coordination, spatial awareness, reaction speed) which is a form of intelligence.
Yep.

Lots of ex-sportsmen do well in business afterwards because of their intelligence.

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RuneFreeze
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coordination, spatial awareness and reaction time are not forms of intelligence. Sorry, they're just not, no matter how much you want them to be. However it wouldn't surprise me if there is a correlation between intelligence and the traits you mentioned, but that doesn't make them 'forms of intelligence'.
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Princepieman
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(Original post by RuneFreeze)
coordination, spatial awareness and reaction time are not forms of intelligence. Sorry, they're just not, no matter how much you want them to be. However it wouldn't surprise me if there is a correlation between intelligence and the traits you mentioned, but that doesn't make them 'forms of intelligence'.
yes, yes they are.

Intelligence is an umbrella term for all sorts of abilities and the sum of them boils down to "general intelligence". Logical intelligence (IQ) is only one form of intelligence.

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RuneFreeze
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no, general intelligence is made up of the sum of verbal intelligence and spatial intelligence
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