What is with centrists calling themselves socialists these days?

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AngeryPenguin
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ChaoticButterfly
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He is cleary a STEM lord who knows the square root of **** all about anything humanities related.

He is a socialist who doesn't beleive in the most basic of working class collective expression, unions. But then again neither does the Chinese communist party. History if full of dip****s calling themselves socialists whilst underming any working class attempt to do anything (UK labour party was full of them).

Twitter is giving these captains of industry a platform to show us just how stupid they actually are. Killing the bourgeois myth of the great
entrepreneur. They are just like us plebs, morons. Something something about seeling the rope that will hang them.
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Dez
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Saying you're a socialist in the USA has a vastly different meaning to what it refers to in the UK (and the rest of Europe). As far as American politics go, basically any standpoint that includes spending public money on healthcare (without giving the lion's share of it to a bunch of corrupt corporations) will be considered "socialist", regardless what else you might ascribe to.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Dez)
has a vastly different meaning to what it refers to in the UK (and the rest of Europe).
Where is also has little to do with socialism.
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HighOnGoofballs
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Where is also has little to do with socialism.
I'm sorry but the UK certainly has a much much bigger socialist supporter base than the USA.
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HighOnGoofballs
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So he's a moderate libertarian who believes in more government involvement e.g. healthcare
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FakeNewsEditor
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I don't like Musk, too much ego. But there's nothing wrong with what he said. There are people called market socialists who believe a modified version of what he said (which wasn't detailed at all anyway and I wouldn't draw any conclusions from it).

Radical socialists are annoying tbh. There are reformist and revolutionary socialists ever since Bernstein and even before him. The only thing revolutionary socialists have ever achieved is moaning about how the reformists aren't "real" socialists. Meanwhile, the reformists are responsible for almost everything that is good about the West post-1950.

I mean, tough. You lost, get a life.
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Napp
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(Original post by Dez)
Saying you're a socialist in the USA has a vastly different meaning to what it refers to in the UK (and the rest of Europe). As far as American politics go, basically any standpoint that includes spending public money on healthcare (without giving the lion's share of it to a bunch of corrupt corporations) will be considered "socialist", regardless what else you might ascribe to.
It's quite amusing seeing the difference in scales across the atlantic. A Tory here for instance would likely be denounced as a pinko in america, for example :lol:
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by FakeNewsEditor)

Radical socialists are annoying tbh. There are reformist and revolutionary socialists ever since Bernstein and even before him. The only thing revolutionary socialists have ever achieved is moaning about how the reformists aren't "real" socialists. Meanwhile, the reformists are responsible for almost everything that is good about the West post-1950.

I mean, tough. You lost, get a life.
Yes the international fell apart and the loss of a whole generation with World War One was the result. Yeah the radicals lost and the conseqences were dire. Your reformism totally failed to transform capitalism to socialism to the point modern day social democrats have totally given up on that goal and deride the reformists of old. Bernstien would be far left now. Good job reformists, you have lots to be smug about :yy:

I don't like the distinction between revolutionary and reformism as it is too simplistic and utlimatly self defeating imo. I'm a radical reformist. I support reforms within a capitalist economy, such as a free at the point of use health service ran by the government, as it no longer means a worker's health care is tied to their job. They are more able to be millitant. The radical 68 student uprisings occured after keynesian capitalist reforms increased living standards and reduced precarity. Growth and wealth redistribution is good for radical politics (which is why Brexit is not good even if the EU is a reactionary force in Europe)

But what you are describing as reformist socialism arguably only ever happened due to the threat of the radicals (which was real post 1917). See the breaking down of what the reformists won when that threat dissapeared from the world stage.

Also what you are describing as reformist socialism I would refer to as corporatism. All that happened was the unions and social democtrat parties were given a say in how the economy was ran. The devision between boss and worker was never challenged. The state and it's bureaucracy just switched place with the capitalist management, with the permision of capital. Funnily enough corporatism also describes prety
succinctly what the radicals over in the Soviet Union were doing.

In the UK the socialist left, which whilst having pockets of socialism advocating for revolution, was largely concerned with doing reformism that actually challenged who owned and controlled the economy. The nearest this ever got to state power was with Bennism in the 70s/80s (or maybe 2017 with the decendents of Bennism capturing the leadership and inceasingly the bureaucracy of the Labour Party :beard:)
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MuthalGanesan2
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I am a Hindu Nationalist who supports Modi. I support homosexual and transsexual rights. I believe that immigration only benefits the destination country and that India needs the West to adopt conservative immigration policies and create more jobs. I think that Muslims are the biggest threat to the UK, for not only their religion, but their socioeconomic status and the ****load of racism that comes with them.
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