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Walmart shopper shoots shooter watch

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    Whilst the story itself is fairly innocuous by American standards [people shooting each other] i'm curious about peoples views on the precedent it highlights;
    On the one hand a member of the public who legally carried a firearm likely saved lives when he stopped the offender. However, on the other hand if guns werent so readily available in America would his 'need' for a gun to protect himself against loons have existed in the first place?
    Once again, another delightful example of the drearily circular argument on American gun control.

    A Walmart shopper has shot dead a gunman who shot a driver in the car park in a crime spree.
    Police say the suspect had tried to steal two cars and shot someone in a vehicle in Tumwater, in the north-western state of Washington.
    "He is a hero," shopper Brian Adams told King 5 News about the unnamed civilian.
    "If this customer hadn't done what he did, who knows what would have happened."
    Police spokeswoman Laura Wohl said the violence began at around 17:00 local time on Sunday when police received reports of a possibly drunk driver going the wrong way down the road.
    Minutes later they received reports of gunshots near the local high school, where they found an injured 16-year-old girl who had been carjacked.
    Image copyrightGOOGLE MAPSImage captionThe shooting happened at a Walmart in Tumwater, Washington
    The girl's injuries were minor, and she was treated at the scene by paramedics.
    Then at around 17:30, the suspect entered a Walmart Supercenter, where he fired shots at a display case and then went back outside where he continued shooting.
    Police say nobody inside the store was injured by the gunfire, which caused scores of panicked customers to flee through emergency exits.
    The attacker, who police have not yet named, then went outside where he attempted to carjack a vehicle, say police.
    He shot a driver twice after he refused to co-operate, and then attempted to take control of a second vehicle.
    That driver was airlifted to a local hospital, police say, and is in now critical condition.
    As the driver fired wildly into cars, two people drew handguns, and one person shot him, police say.
    Kailani Bailey, 19, told the Olympian that she was shopping inside the Walmart when a tall man in a grey t-shirt and jeans ran into the building, pushing past people and shouting "move".
    Moments later she heard, "pop, pop, pop", and everyone froze, she said.
    "Then somebody yelled, 'run, run!' and everyone took off," Ms Bailey said. "When I got outside, I heard more pop, pop, pop."
    Witness Megan Chadwick said that her husband saw three people confront the shooter.
    "There were three civilians going after him to shoot him and two of them had their guns up and then the third guy shot him through the window of the car," she told KIRO-TV.
    Another woman who was shopping with her children told the network that they all fled the shop and hid behind a parked car.
    "I looked over and saw hundreds of people running out.
    "Just a flood of people and everyone was screaming and frantic.
    "When we got about to the door, I heard someone say, 'gun. Shooter.' And I knew something was serious."
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44523533
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    I don't know if it is correct but I have seen Americans say that these cases, where legal gun owners save the day, barely get covered by most of their their MSM claiming it doesn't fit their (the MSM's ) agenda.
    Either way if I was the one shot by the offender I would be grateful for the good guy carrying.
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    (Original post by Just my opinion)
    I don't know if it is correct but I have seen Americans say that these cases, where legal gun owners save the day, barely get covered by most of their their MSM claiming it doesn't fit their (the MSM's ) agenda.
    Either way if I was the one shot by the offender I would be grateful for the good guy carrying.
    It seems to get a relative amount of air time - I’ve seen several such articles on the beeb before. The one where a man tried to hold up a gun shop being rather amusing.

    The point I was making though was less to do with this mans heroism but the hypothetical If such instances would happen so frequently of any man and his dog could easily get a gun
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    rip taylor swift died in florida while shopping for bikes
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    (Original post by Napp)
    Whilst the story itself is fairly innocuous by American standards [people shooting each other] i'm curious about peoples views on the precedent it highlights;
    On the one hand a member of the public who legally carried a firearm likely saved lives when he stopped the offender. However, on the other hand if guns werent so readily available in America would his 'need' for a gun to protect himself against loons have existed in the first place?
    Once again, another delightful example of the drearily circular argument on American gun control.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44523533
    The CDC in the US estimate that 500,000-3,000,000 lives are saved each year by citizens who are carrying guns lawfully. They also concluded that more lives are saved by guns than are killed.

    You can read the entire report here: https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/1

    But yeah, this type of stuff doesn't get much publicity because God forbid there being a positive aspect to owning a gun.
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    (Original post by lolokmatewe)
    rip taylor swift died in florida while shopping for bikes
    Don’t you mean that black rapper fellow...?
    (Original post by Cubone-r)
    The CDC in the US estimate that 500,000-3,000,000 lives are saved each year by citizens who are carrying guns lawfully.

    You can read the entire report here: https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/1

    But yeah, this type of stuff doesn't get much publicity because God forbid there being a positive aspect to owning a gun.
    I’ll give it a read in tomorrow when I’m near a laptop but I assume this is based on counterfacual ‘guess work’ which is of questionable merit to start with.
    I should point out here I’m not anti-gun, I mean who doesn’t like a spot of blasting away on the range etc. my objection to American laws is that they ipso facto enable any crack pot unworthy to possess a gun to stockpile an Arsenal to rival several nations actual militaries.

    Sorry minor side track there but my salient, well only point really, is that if guns weren’t so proflific in America would the need for so many people to armed necessary? Whichever side of the debate you fall on it’s a simple fact that restricting certain types of firearm and reinforcing checks on who can buy them would make a world of difference - then again there’s so many loose guns it’s probably unfixable now :L
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    (Original post by Cubone-r)
    The CDC in the US estimate that 500,000-3,000,000 lives are saved each year by citizens who are carrying guns lawfully. They also concluded that more lives are saved by guns than are killed.

    You can read the entire report here: https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/1

    But yeah, this type of stuff doesn't get much publicity because God forbid there being a positive aspect to owning a gun.
    500,000 to 3,000,000? If true (I have serious doubts), that is one of the most damning statistics I have heard about the USA. Just how lawless and violent is American society?

    By comparison, the number one case of death in the USA is heart disease, with 600,000 deaths a year.
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    (Original post by Napp)
    Don’t you mean that black rapper fellow...?
    Nice way of identifying someone.

    XXXTenancion was his name, but instead of just putting down some "black rapper fellow", it'd be more respectful to identify them by their title (Google's a lifesaver).
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    (Original post by Sulfolobus)
    500,000 to 3,000,000? If true (I have serious doubts), that is one of the most damning statistics I have heard about the USA. Just how lawless and violent is American society?

    By comparison, the number one case of death in the USA is heart disease, with 600,000 deaths a year.
    Saved, not killed.
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    (Original post by Cubone-r)
    Saved, not killed.
    Exactly. Such a claim would imply that the removal of guns from civilians would see a huge rise in the number of deaths by 0.5 - 3 million. At the upper end of that scale, you would see mortality rates in the USA double. Which is incredible as there are currently ~12k gun homicides a year.

    Having just looked at your link, I believe you are referring to:

    Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defen- sive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 vio- lent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).
    Which is a very different statement to saying lives saved, but does portray the USA as far more violent than our society.
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    (Original post by Sulfolobus)
    Exactly. Such a claim would imply that the removal of guns from civilians would see a huge rise in the number of deaths by 0.5 - 3 million. At the upper end of that scale, you would see mortality rates in the USA double. Which is incredible as there are currently ~12k gun homicides a year.

    Having just looked at your link, I believe you are referring to:



    Which is a very different statement to saying lives saved, but does portray the USA as far more violent than our society.
    If someone is using a gun in a defensive way, surely they are at the very least, saving their own life (and other people's lives if any are around) if they are in that situation where they have to use a gun.
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    (Original post by Bulletzone)
    Nice way of identifying someone.

    XXXTenancion was his name, but instead of just putting down some "black rapper fellow", it'd be more respectful to identify them by their title (Google's a lifesaver).
    Does it really make much difference? Aside from his music ‘prowess’ he appears to be a complete villain who battered pregnant women?
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    I read this too some time ago. It refers to (amongst others) cases where knives have been pulled and then somebody pulls a gun suddenly the guy with the knife walks away and cases where women stopped a threats of rape or worse that was escalating etc.
    Whatever else guns are a great equaliser for women and older people when confronted with violent men.
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    (Original post by Cubone-r)
    If someone is using a gun in a defensive way, surely they are at the very least, saving their own life (and other people's lives if any are around) if they are in that situation where they have to use a gun.
    No, you seem to be assuming that a firearm is only used defensively where an armed assailant intends to kill a person. There are multiple other scenarios such as a farmer/security guard brandishing a weapon at a trespasser. You'll note the quote says 300k violent crimes involving firearms, less than the number of defensive uses.

    Even in cases where an assailant is holding a gun or other weapon, you are making assumptions e.g you assume the assailant can shoot straight (they generally don't), the assailant will shoot fatality (most shooting are not fatal), etc.
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    (Original post by Sulfolobus)
    No, you seem to be assuming that a firearm is only used defensively where an armed assailant intends to kill a person. There are multiple other scenarios such as a farmer/security guard brandishing a weapon at a trespasser. You'll note the quote says 300k violent crimes involving firearms, less than the number of defensive uses.

    Even in cases where an assailant is holding a gun or other weapon, you are making assumptions e.g you assume the assailant can shoot straight (they generally don't), the assailant will shoot fatality (most shooting are not fatal), etc.
    You got me br0.

    You are a smarter person than I. You changed my mind.
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    (Original post by Sulfolobus)



    Which is a very different statement to saying lives saved, but does portray the USA as far more violent than our society.
    Which is a given even given the fact that they have six times the population we do.

    To be honest when watching YouTube clips, for a country with so many people owning guns I'm always amazed at how their road rage incidents turn into physical violence much more quickly than here in the UK.
    You would think a country with more guns in private ownership than people would be slow to turn to violence but the opposite seems to be the case.🤔
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    Or, you know, they could just... not have guns, and then there wouldn't have been a shooter in the first place.
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    If the vast number decent law abiding citizens all gave up their guns how long would it be until the vast number of illegal guns in the hands of criminals were gone too?
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    (Original post by Bulletzone)
    Nice way of identifying someone.

    XXXTenancion was his name, but instead of just putting down some "black rapper fellow", it'd be more respectful to identify them by their title (Google's a lifesaver).
    You spelt his name wrong... unforgivable, total lack of respect.
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    (Original post by Occitanie)
    You spelt his name wrong... unforgivable, total lack of respect.
    As opposed to identifying someone by their skin colour?
    Ok then.
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