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Was I Raped? (I've been stupid) watch

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    I went out a few weeks ago for my friend's birthday whilst there I got chatting to a friend of hers and well I guess we hit it off. I can't remember much of the night out that followed in full but I remember dancing with him and walking with him the whole night. I also remember falling over numerous times. There were 4 of us who got a taxi back to our halls and I was carried home by the guy. That's literally all I remember until the next thing I know I'm sucking him off I can't even remember him coming into my flat never mind my bedroom. So this is when it gets sketchy I remember being on my front like almost asleep I guess(?) that's how I go to sleep and him asking if he should put a condom on or not I genuinely do not recall replying anything more than a grunt because by this point I am tired and then there was this pain and I was like "sh*t I cannot sleep with this guy" so I freaked out and started crying and he naturally stopped proceedings. I woke up the next day genuinely shocked to find him in my bed that's how little I remembered initially but I'm not the kind of girl who sleeps around I've had bad experiences in the past that make me somewhat frigid but i no under no circumstance would I have given solid consent to him sleeping with me because I was shocked when I felt "it". To cut a long story short we've all fell out now but I feel super uneasy about the whole thing he says we can't even count it as sleeping together because it was only one or two thrusts (again I can't remember). Like I know I shouldn't have been so stupid I get that but what the hell do I call this?
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    what ......
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    No idea. You cannot know nor can we, as your recollection is incomplete.

    Remember, for rape:

    (a) you must not have consented; here it seems you grunted, might have replied affirmatively or non-verbally consented.
    (b) he must have lacked reasonable belief you consented; here we don't know what he might have thought, as we only have hazy internal monologue.

    I would posit that you had an unfortunate sexual encounter, where things were lost in translation, and you should move on. It seems a leap to assume this man intentionally had sex with you when he knew you did not consent, even though he had the constitution to stop when you started crying. Probably try to control your level of drunkenness in future.
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    If he stopped after you told him too, then it’s not rape. Him sleeping in the same bed as you isn’t rape. But if you were drunk, can only assume he was too, so he probably passed out like you did.
    • #2
    #2

    ...The damaging effects of Alcohol and how much havoc it can wreak. I can understand why you're upset, the whole situation is just ridiculously out of order.
    • #3
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I went out a few weeks ago for my friend's birthday whilst there I got chatting to a friend of hers and well I guess we hit it off. I can't remember much of the night out that followed in full but I remember dancing with him and walking with him the whole night. I also remember falling over numerous times. There were 4 of us who got a taxi back to our halls and I was carried home by the guy. That's literally all I remember until the next thing I know I'm sucking him off I can't even remember him coming into my flat never mind my bedroom. So this is when it gets sketchy I remember being on my front like almost asleep I guess(?) that's how I go to sleep and him asking if he should put a condom on or not I genuinely do not recall replying anything more than a grunt because by this point I am tired and then there was this pain and I was like "sh*t I cannot sleep with this guy" so I freaked out and started crying and he naturally stopped proceedings. I woke up the next day genuinely shocked to find him in my bed that's how little I remembered initially but I'm not the kind of girl who sleeps around I've had bad experiences in the past that make me somewhat frigid but i no under no circumstance would I have given solid consent to him sleeping with me because I was shocked when I felt "it". To cut a long story short we've all fell out now but I feel super uneasy about the whole thing he says we can't even count it as sleeping together because it was only one or two thrusts (again I can't remember). Like I know I shouldn't have been so stupid I get that but what the hell do I call this?
    You call it being stupid and irresponsible. Just because you are uncomfortable with what happened, it does not make it rape (especially when the guy stopped after you said no).
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    Nah, he stop when you asked him too, probably didn't realise how drunk you were... possibly because he was equally as drunk. He even asked you whether you wanted him to wear a condom, meaning that he perceived you as being capable of making an informed decision.

    I think you feel a bit ashamed that you got so drunk and let go of your inhibitions, and want to apportion blame to somebody else.

    But you would ruin his life with a rape allegation, and waste taxpayers money pursuing a case. Just chalk it off as a weird experience, try not to get that drunk again.

    Perhaps ask to meet him for a daytime coffee in a public place for a chat, to ascertain what he remembers about that night.... he was probably just as drunk as you and probably felt a bit weird waking up sober in your bed too.
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    I'm a male, 47 years old, and while this may have been socially acceptable behavior at one time, having sex with a heavily inebriated partner without absolute consent is date rape. You were incapacitated and without the faculties to render a full conscious approval of sex. Let's say you didn't get drunk. Let's say you bumped your head hard enough to get a concussion and you weren't thinking straight? He asks for consent. You "grunt" something. He penetrates you. That's rape.
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    (Original post by liveagreatstory)
    I'm a male, 47 years old, and while this may have been socially acceptable behavior at one time, having sex with a heavily inebriated partner without absolute consent is date rape. You were incapacitated and without the faculties to render a full conscious approval of sex. Let's say you didn't get drunk. Let's say you bumped your head hard enough to get a concussion and you weren't thinking straight? He asks for consent. You "grunt" something. He penetrates you. That's rape.
    It has been explained further up why in legal terms, this is probably not the case.
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    UK law is actually very clear on this:

    ================================ ================================ ======

    Myth: Someone who's willingly drunk lots of alcohol or taken drugs shouldn't complain if they end up being raped or sexually assaulted.



    Fact: In law, consent to sex is when someone agrees by choice and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice. If a person is unconscious or incapacitated by alcohol or drugs, they are unable to give their consent to sex. Having sex with a person who is incapacitated through alcohol or drugs is rape. No-one asks or deserves to be raped or sexually assaulted; 100% of the responsibility lies with the perpetrator. Everyone has the right to live their life free from the fear and experience of sexual violence.

    ================================ ===============================

    Source: https://rapecrisis.org.uk/mythsvsrealities.php

    The OP was raped. 100%. No argument about it.
    • #3
    #3

    (Original post by Dunnig Kruger)
    UK law is actually very clear on this:

    ================================ ================================ ======

    Myth: Someone who's willingly drunk lots of alcohol or taken drugs shouldn't complain if they end up being raped or sexually assaulted.



    Fact: In law, consent to sex is when someone agrees by choice and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice. If a person is unconscious or incapacitated by alcohol or drugs, they are unable to give their consent to sex. Having sex with a person who is incapacitated through alcohol or drugs is rape. No-one asks or deserves to be raped or sexually assaulted; 100% of the responsibility lies with the perpetrator. Everyone has the right to live their life free from the fear and experience of sexual violence.

    ================================ ===============================

    Source: https://rapecrisis.org.uk/mythsvsrealities.php

    The OP was raped. 100%. No argument about it.
    What if the guy was equally drunk?
    • #1
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    He wasn't equally as drunk or at least he's been able to tell me what happened. I wouldn't even bother Persuing a case because even violent rapes go uncharged with evidence (just look at 24 hours in police custody from this week). It's more a case of is this or is this not. It's unusual for me to get so drunk as I'm usually babysitting my friends and making sure they don't run off and do anything that's likely to get them killed but this was a different circle I'm not used to and the girl who's birthday it was is very good at drinking and forcing shots onto you. Even if I was in an unbiased situation I would say that being drunk as I was nobody "deseves" to be taken advantage of.
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    (Original post by BritishJew)
    Nah, he stop when you asked him too, probably didn't realise how drunk you were... possibly because he was equally as drunk. He even asked you whether you wanted him to wear a condom, meaning that he perceived you as being capable of making an informed decision.

    I think you feel a bit ashamed that you got so drunk and let go of your inhibitions, and want to apportion blame to somebody else.

    But you would ruin his life with a rape allegation, and waste taxpayers money pursuing a case. Just chalk it off as a weird experience, try not to get that drunk again.

    Perhaps ask to meet him for a daytime coffee in a public place for a chat, to ascertain what he remembers about that night.... he was probably just as drunk as you and probably felt a bit weird waking up sober in your bed too.
    The next day he told the mutual friend everything that happened like every little detail which she then told me in front of my flatmate. He also said I clearly had issues because I'd started crying. Like I say, I don't talk to any of them any more for totally unrelated reasons so and I wouldn't want to see him again anyways.
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    Many people don't seem to realise that if you have to ask if you were raped, you probably didn't consent. It shouldn't be hard to understand that consent is something that must be given, not something already present that must be taken away. A grunt seems to be ambiguous and it could even be argued as a sign of not consenting.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    ...The damaging effects of Alcohol and how much havoc it can wreak. I can understand why you're upset, the whole situation is just ridiculously out of order.
    (Original post by rimstone)
    what ......
    Sorry it's waffley ok?!
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Like I know I shouldn't have been so stupid I get that but what the hell do I call this?
    Call it whatever is most helpful to you. But try not to fret if it doesn't completely fall into place for a while yet. It would be understandable if it takes time to get it into the right perspective.

    From your description, it sounds like you feel you made a mistake in getting drunk in that situation. That's fair enough - but who doesn't make mistakes sometimes? It's just a human thing. And it doesn't make you responsible for how another person acts towards you. It seems clear that the male willfully dismissed the signs that you were not able to give valid consent to sex. His default assumption was "I am going to have sex with her unless she stops me". This is not an attitude of shared and mutual agreement, it is an exploitative one.

    Unless you want to pursue legal action, whether you label it in your heart and head "rape" or something else is entirely up to you. I'd suggest, it might be worth giving it a name that reminds you that the bad thing was his responsibility, not yours, and that you are strong enough to get past it and be as brave, active and whole a woman as ever. Call him a "sexual predator", a " sexual bully" or "an untrustworthy ****head" or whatever, if "rape" feels wrong. The perpetrators' later behaviour sounds as if he is trying to minimise his own feelings of guilt and responsibility - but you don't have to accept his perspective at all.
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    (Original post by Dunnig Kruger)
    UK law is actually very clear on this:

    ================================ ================================ ======

    Myth: Someone who's willingly drunk lots of alcohol or taken drugs shouldn't complain if they end up being raped or sexually assaulted.



    Fact: In law, consent to sex is when someone agrees by choice and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice. If a person is unconscious or incapacitated by alcohol or drugs, they are unable to give their consent to sex. Having sex with a person who is incapacitated through alcohol or drugs is rape. No-one asks or deserves to be raped or sexually assaulted; 100% of the responsibility lies with the perpetrator. Everyone has the right to live their life free from the fear and experience of sexual violence.

    ================================ ===============================

    Source: https://rapecrisis.org.uk/mythsvsrealities.php

    The OP was raped. 100%. No argument about it.
    That's not UK law, that's a rape charity (explaining to Joe Bloggs what the law is). The advice is wrong because it misses out the second component of the offence of rape: lack of reasonable belief by A that B consented. Further, while no doubt the male has to take responsibility, the onus is on the prosecution to prove both that B did not consent and that A lack reasonable belief that B consented.

    Furthermore, the type of incapacitation they are talking about is quite high. It is not merely being so drunk you blacked out or so drunk you made a silly decision: no, you have to be a cast member of the Walking Dead for that to apply. With respect, it is not demonstrated OP was at that level.
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    Kids, if you're reading this

    Stay away from alcohol

    Never ends well, some people really do go piss up when they have too much
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    You f*cked up, move on and dont get so wasted next time. Also by giving a blowjob, im pretty sure in a court of law that would favour the dude as it indirectly constitutes as consent for sex. The fact you cried and he stopped, means that he is not in the wrong here.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    but what the hell do I call this?
    Taking him back to your house, getting it on with him, then cancelling the whole thing after two thrusts. Although admittedly being kind enough not to turf the man out alone onto the street in the middle of the night where he could have been mugged or raped on the way home.

    The man asked you whether or not you would like him to wear a condom, and stopped the activity as soon as you requested that he did so, sounds like a gentleman to me. The pitchfork mob on here seem to want to call him a rapist because you've got a bit of forgetfulness.

    People who drink forget small details, that's just a fact. I sometimes forget what I had for dinner the day before, does that mean that the person who cooked my dinner must have tried to poison me?
 
 
 
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