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Students at Cornwall campus, University of Exeter
University of Exeter
Exeter

An Open Letter to University of Exeter

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Original post by e^iπ
In regards to our comments about China, their culture of respecting STEM jobs is clearly working in their favour then is it not? I doubt that Chinese people encourage their children to study degrees like philosophy or history.

Surely the UK culture of saying its okay to do what you want to do, even if that is humanities which would be frowned upon in China is doing us more harm than good. And you can see this attitude on TSR popping up on the countless "STEM vs non-STEM" debates.


It seems Chinese students are increasingly interested in studying arts & humanities.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rebeccafeng/2017/08/23/chinas-new-ivy-league-incubators-a-victory-for-humanities-majors/

http://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2101211/how-humanities-not-stem-can-lead-chinese-students-towards

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Students at Cornwall campus, University of Exeter
University of Exeter
Exeter
Original post by Doonesbury


poor fools
Reply 122
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e^iπ
19
Original post by Kyber Ninja
Well, the other problem is that parents would rather see their child go to university and study something as opposed to doing an apprenticeship.

But this is a thing in America as well, it's just they have the money to counteract it - hell, they're the ones that started this Liberal Arts crap and gender studies :/. We can't replicate that because we simply aren't as capitalist.


Well the government clearly needs to spend more money promoting apprenticeship schemes as its quite obvious parents are still imagining them to be a young person learning how to sweep chimneys from an old hand.

Its no secret that a vast majority of professional jobs require a university degree as part of the official criteria but what percentage of those jobs would you say need degree-level knowledge, a very small amount. Most jobs can be learnt by on-site training and this is why I think apprenticeships are beneficial. Investment banking is one of these jobs in my opinion but of course the chances of an IB apprenticeship scheme are quite slim due to the amount of elitism present in the industry.


And I hope with all my heart that liberal arts degrees in their full form never become a big thing here. The only thing they seem to be good for is to get students debating about Trump and creating work for themselves i.e. attending anti-Trump rallies
Original post by Kyber Ninja
poor fools


Which careers are more likely to survive AI in the future? Humanities related, or STEM?
Original post by username4045102
You missed the bottom line completely and it's not about the offer rate at all. Read more carefully.


Although Exeter has an offer rate of 90%, that does not mean their policies are non-discriminatory. I mean, for a university that sets a quota on how many international students they are willing to take, i think it's rather unbelievable to say that their admission process is fair.

The OP is also right about Exeter requiring study within 3 years to be strange, since not many UK universities would usually require this.
Original post by Doonesbury
Which careers are more likely to survive AI in the future? Humanities related, or STEM?


AI would require maintenance, advancement maybe even killing right? Not to mention drugs that would need making (chemistry) facilities to make drugs (engineering) understanding how the body would interact with them (biology). Driverless cars, buildings, biofuels all would require other aspects of engineering too. Obviously doctors would still be required too (medicine)

so STEM is the answer. I imagine since the start of the century, STEM has risen in terms of graduates and humanities has probably fallen.
Original post by Doonesbury


However, business and accounting courses still continues to attract the majority. If you come to the Exeter Business School you will notice that 80% postgraduates are Chinese students.
(edited 5 years ago)
Reply 127
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e^iπ
19
Original post by Doonesbury
Which careers are more likely to survive AI in the future? Humanities related, or STEM?


Well first of all AI is the work of many people not one. Just like other scientific innovations, it will take a multitude of people building upon the previous generations' ideas for AI to become advanced enough to create new ideas. This will not happen for a long time if many people take humanities.

And what exactly do you mean by "survive" I doubt AI will become advanced enough to come up with new ideas. I think the media fuels a lot of frenzy amongst poorly informed people in that AI can replicate humans...it can't, what it can do is replicate the behaviour of humans it has studied using training data. This is why Russia have been able to develop so called "troll bots", the algorithm analyses people's behaviour and then sees what will get people very angry online.

And since you keep up with events, I'm sure you have heard of AI that helps fight parking ticket fines


https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/28/chatbot-ai-lawyer-donotpay-parking-tickets-london-new-york


Granted this is not a complex legal case like murder but there is no doubt AI could be made which analyses previous legal cases (a thing lawyers do) to come up with the best course of action. So if anything, it is humanities which will not survive AI
Original post by Mr. Voracious
'Notoriety' is definitely a member of staff at Exeter. His knowledge on Exeter in particular from his other posts prove so. And he always gets defensive when someone has a go at Exeter :wink:



Yes, he is, I would say so and the 999tigger as well. Very arrogant and unprofessional behavior. Imagine him as a professor… it would be normal to find out first what really happened, but no!

Too bad Steve Smith probably isn't using this modern kind of stuff such as forums, but maybe I should send him this thread within an email, what do you think?

Overall, I really do not hate Exeter, and they have 1 decent lady there, Ms. Julia King, she is very kind. And their campus in Cornwall is nice.

But the fact is US and Canadian universities have a lot better approach and policy for the mature students and it's nice to know that many of the UK universities have very similar rules though but the Exeter is not among them, that's for sure.
Original post by Doonesbury


If by humanities you mean social sciences ie business and economics...

On my walks into uni in the morning, i may as well be getting the train to tokyo or downtown shanghai lmao.
Original post by Mr. Voracious
Although Exeter has an offer rate of 90%, that does not mean their policies are non-discriminatory. I mean, for a university that sets a quota on how many international students they are willing to take, i think it's rather unbelievable to say that their admission process is fair.

The OP is also right about Exeter requiring study within 3 years to be strange, since not many UK universities would usually require this.




I'm really glad that you understand what I'm trying to say here. Thank you! :smile:
Notoriety is a 25-30 year old lad who is now working at Exeter University. The reason why his knowledge revolves around law is because his takes on a Data Protection role at Exeter University.

But yeah, he definately isn't an academic staff
:biggrin:
Original post by e^iπ
I'm not hating exclusively on Exeter, most UK universities are like this. How else can you explain Britain's lack of presence on the world stage?

Most uni grads lack hard skills nowadays, it's all good and well padding your CV with lots of soft skills and it will get you a job, but with countries like the USA, China and India developing hard skills within there grads, it's no wonder that it's these countries who are innovating the most whilst most of the graduates from our top universities end up going into banking and Law, sectors which aren't very innovative.


Well, this is just tragically vague. You have not mentioned any stats, what sectors you're talking about, what it means to have hard skills and so on. The only way I or others can respond is with equally vague rhetoric and that is just a waste of everyone's time.

Most of these non-Oxbridge/ICL/LSE unis in the top 30 or so attract a significant number of international students, from HK/Sing/India/mainland China and so on. The fact you think these unis are not represented on the world stage just shows you have no real world experience of what you are talking about.
Reply 134
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Original post by Notoriety
Well, this is just tragically vague. You have not mentioned any stats, what sectors you're talking about, what it means to have hard skills and so on. The only way I or others can respond is with equally vague rhetoric and that is just a waste of everyone's time.

Most of these non-Oxbridge/ICL/LSE unis in the top 30 or so attract a significant number of international students, from HK/Sing/India/mainland China and so on. The fact you think these unis are not represented on the world stage just shows you have no real world experience of what you are talking about.


By hard skills I mean technical skills. There are far too jobs that ostensibly require a university degree when in fact they could be carried out with the help of on-the-job training. Many university degrees are very abstract and so only teach soft skills in that they help you develop things like communication skills etc but other than that they are a waste of 3 years of your life.

Most of the people drinking away their student loan are not internationals, this is because they have to actually pay back their loans unlike over here.

Also what connection do you have to Exeter university as it seems to be a point of discussion on this thread?
Original post by Mr. Voracious
The OP is also right about Exeter requiring study within 3 years to be strange, since not many UK universities would usually require this.


"Not many"? It's a pretty common requirement.

Spoiler




Original post by e^iπ
By hard skills I mean technical skills. There are far too jobs that ostensibly require a university degree when in fact they could be carried out with the help of on-the-job training.


You are not saying which jobs these are or what technical skills are. Vague again

For example, if I take a maths degree and end up working in banking, I would need to take a lot of on-the-job instruction to get me equipped to do my job. Similar thing if you take bio and end up working at a zoo. What types of job are entirely prepared for by a degree? Medicine, nursing, some teaching? I don't think CS would qualify, nor many other degrees associated with innovative sectors. I am therefore unsure what you want our students to go on studying.

I also don't see the superiority of someone taking an apprenticeship to become a car mechanic over someone who takes a degree from Warwick or Manchester in business and end up working for McDonald's in marketing. Remember, this is what you said. If you don't get into Oxbridge, but for medicine, you'd take an apprenticeship.

Many university degrees are very abstract and so only teach soft skills in that they help you develop things like communication skills etc but other than that they are a waste of 3 years of your life.


You also have people from STEM backgrounds entering business and soft-skill roles. Plus it is not a waste if a degree is the only entry to that profession.

Most of the people drinking away their student loan are not internationals, this is because they have to actually pay back their loans unlike over here.


Rich internationals take doss courses, too, and pay an awful lot of money for them. I don't see the relevance of them not taking an SLC loan. They also come here to take law degrees and degrees in econ, and all these other despicable money-grabbing courses.

Rich Chinese students come to the UK to take history degrees while their poor counterparts are struggling with maths and engineering. It is almost as if the richer you are, the less interested in building cars you become. It is as if the British ability to take doss degrees is tied to of our success rather than indicating infrastructural failure. If people want to graduate with their doss degrees and make a killing working in consultancy, I can only say I am happy for them.

Also what connection do you have to Exeter university as it seems to be a point of discussion on this thread?


I run Information Governance at Exeter, as has been mentioned.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Notoriety

I run Information Governance at Exeter, as has been mentioned.


I guess you're the second officer on this list
https://www.exeter.ac.uk/ig/aboutinformationgovernance/contact/


Reason:
You said on the thread below your 'clients' who make data breach complaints usually have MH issues, because you previously worked at an NHS Mental Health Trust! It's very arrogant/ignorant/discriminating of you to say that people who complain about data breaches have MH issues. If you worked at an Mental Health Trust then of course your clients will have MH issues, It's why they're there in the first place. But that doesn't mean Exeter university students who complaints about data protection also have MH issues.
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5309500&page=3
Original post by Mr. Voracious
I guess you're the second officer on this list
https://www.exeter.ac.uk/ig/aboutinformationgovernance/contact/


Reason:
You said on the thread below your 'clients' who make data breach complaints usually have MH issues, because you previously worked at an NHS Mental Health Trust! It's very arrogant/ignorant/discriminating of you to say that people who complain about data breaches have MH issues. If you worked at an Mental Health Trust then of course your clients will have MH issues, It's why they're there in the first place. But that doesn't mean Exeter university students who complaints about data protection also have MH issues.
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5309500&page=3


Oh wow, I didn't know you were being serious!

No, you will find that there are more organisations than the NHS who have data protection duties and are made aware of people's MH issues.

Plus when people have MH issues and are seeking advice from a lecturer or otherwise, they're usually seeking help with their MH issues and alleging that information about their MH issues has been shared. If I were actually in compliance, the complaint would probably list the MH condition the complainant suffers from. Normally those people are unduly anxious, although there are obviously many complainants who are reasonably concerned and the validity of their complaint is not determined by their having an MH issue.

I don't work at Exeter Uni, though. Just been involved with places which deal with a lot of sensitive info; and occasionally oversaw DPA complaints.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Notoriety




I run Information Governance at Exeter, as has been mentioned.


Very arrogant, rude, and extremely unprofessional behavior in public virtual space. I'll make sure the highest instance of Exeter hears about this thread.
Original post by Galinocka2
Very arrogant, rude, and extremely unprofessional behavior in public virtual space. I'll make sure the highest instance of Exeter hears about this thread.


The highest instance of Exeter won't give a monkey's testicle.

Exeter rejected you. Deal with it and move on.

If this is your response to getting rejected from a university, I hate to think how you react when someone dumps you.

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