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the bear
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#1
Who voted against Brexit.

In the coming years the UK will be an enfeebled nation once more; querulously looking back at past glories at home and overseas.

Like Japan and Israel we are facing desperately serious threats to our economy and security.

Who else here is proud to have played their part in resisting
this monumentally foolish history changing event?

Here's my favourite video on YouTube:

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Davij038
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I also voted remain, and don’t regret my vote. I am also a Trump supporter and someone who supports eurosceptic parties abroad.

Here’s my reasoning

1: vote leave is a joke.

The economic case for brexit is just dumb, and other than maybe a few idiots at vote leave nobody believed. Sovereignty is a posh way of saying they wanted less immigration.

2: the EU isn’t inherently bad

The problem is the people running it, who incidentally are the same people running brexit- the globalist establishment this is why we’re in the mess we are now.
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Trinculo
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#3
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#3
Leaving the EU is a risky flight riddled with uncertainty.

Staying in the EU provides certainty. Certainty that Britain will be shackled to a failing political wet dream that is fast turning into a new supranational fascism.

I don’t see how Remain motivations are anything but based on fantasies of a false utopia that could only appeal to the most childlike of sentiments- that surrendering control of everything will lead to peace and harmony. This sounds very much like HG Wells’s vision of the 800th century with Europeans playing the part of the clueless and ineffectual Eloi, roaming around a landscape of imagined social justice.
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Trinculo
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(Original post by Davij038)
I also voted remain, and don’t regret my vote. I am also a Trump supporter and someone who supports eurosceptic parties abroad.

Here’s my reasoning

1: vote leave is a joke.

The economic case for brexit is just dumb, and other than maybe a few idiots at vote leave nobody believed. Sovereignty is a posh way of saying they wanted less immigration.

2: the EU isn’t inherently bad

The problem is the people running it, who incidentally are the same people running brexit- the globalist establishment this is why we’re in the mess we are now.
But is there any evidence whatsoever that the EU is capable of reform? The EU is moving further in the direction of increasing power and control and reducing any kind of accountability.

millions in southern Europe are trapped in desperate poverty which they are utterly powerless to do anything about. This has been going on for a decade and must be seen as an utter failure of the EU
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FloralHybrid
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#5
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Firstly, I love the subtle shade being thrown at the original post 👌🏻😂

And secondly, thank you for talking nonsense, if I hear one more pro-brexit-pro-trump-patriotic-buttface I don’t know what I’ll do.
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username3957186
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"This sounds very much like HG Wells’s vision of the 800th century with Europeans playing the part of the clueless and ineffectual Eloi, roaming around a landscape of imagined social justice."

Who would be the Morlocks then?
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Underscore__
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(Original post by Davij038)
I also voted remain, and don’t regret my vote. I am also a Trump supporter and someone who supports eurosceptic parties abroad.

Here’s my reasoning

1: vote leave is a joke.

The economic case for brexit is just dumb, and other than maybe a few idiots at vote leave nobody believed. Sovereignty is a posh way of saying they wanted less immigration.

2: the EU isn’t inherently bad

The problem is the people running it, who incidentally are the same people running brexit- the globalist establishment this is why we’re in the mess we are now.
Whenever I see the word globalist this guy comes to mind
Name:  A0FC2C10-E272-45C9-9DFA-3EC3A17D8C5A.jpg.jpeg
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Size:  30.3 KB
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Axiomasher
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#8
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#8
But there's gonna be free gammon on the NHS now, haters.
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Dez
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#9
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(Original post by Trinculo)
But is there any evidence whatsoever that the EU is capable or reform? The EU is moving further in the direction of increasing power and control and reducing any kind of accountability.

millions in southern Europe are trapped in desperate poverty which they are utterly powerless to do anything about. This has been going on for a decade and must be seen as an utter failure of the EU
But is there any evidence whatsoever that the UK is capable of reform? The UK is moving further in the direction of increasing power and control and reducing any kind of accountability.

Millions in northern England are trapped in desperate poverty which they are utterly powerless to do anything about. This has been going on for a decade and must be seen as an utter failure of the UK.
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Trinculo
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(Original post by Dez)
But is there any evidence whatsoever that the UK is capable of reform? The UK is moving further in the direction of increasing power and control and reducing any kind of accountability.

Millions in northern England are trapped in desperate poverty which they are utterly powerless to do anything about. This has been going on for a decade and must be seen as an utter failure of the UK.
This isn't remotely close to being true and is just Europhilic rhetoric.

The UK is taking back power and control that was ceded to Europe - and accountability will return. If UK voters don't like the government they have the means to change it. That there have been multiple governments of different colours in recent years tells you this.

The EU, on the other hand, cannot be changed. They do what they want and Britain has no say whatsoever.

A lot of people in the north (and there aren't millions in poverty) vote Labour no matter what. Sometimes there is a Labour government, sometimes there isn't. Sometimes they get things they like, sometimes they don't. If enough people got fed up with Conservative government, there would be a Labour government and they would at least have a go at making the changes they want to.

Contrast that with Cyprus. The EU controls the Cypriot economy utterly. Cyprus has no influence on any policy of the EU and there is nothing they can do about it. The value of their imports, exports, money - all is utterly out of their hands. Barely any young people have jobs - and what can they do about it? Vote in a different national government who are still constrained by exactly the same thing. This is exactly what happened in Greece.

If you don't like what the EU is doing, the mechanisms do not exist to change them. You tell them you oppose them - they tell you that you are too stupid to possibly understand, and then they go ahead and do it anyway.
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Plantagenet Crown
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#11
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#11
That shade towards the Brextwáts though :lol:
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Dez
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#12
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(Original post by Trinculo)
This isn't remotely close to being true and is just Europhilic rhetoric.

The UK is taking back power and control that was ceded to Europe - and accountability will return. If UK voters don't like the government they have the means to change it. That there have been multiple governments of different colours in recent years tells you this.
The UK government is basically unaccountable to a large section of the populace. Anyone who lives in a safe seat basically has no voice at all. And the ever-growing pressure to leave parliament out of key decision making is only making things worse. The power and control we're taking back from the EU is not going to the UK as a whole, it's going to a small number of corrupted government officials. How this is supposed to improve things I've no idea.

(Original post by Trinculo)
The EU, on the other hand, cannot be changed. They do what they want and Britain has no say whatsoever.
The EU is hardly brilliant at what it does but it doesn't mean that Westminster gets off the hook for what it continues to do.

(Original post by Trinculo)
A lot of people in the north (and there aren't millions in poverty) vote Labour no matter what. Sometimes there is a Labour government, sometimes there isn't. Sometimes they get things they like, sometimes they don't. If enough people got fed up with Conservative government, there would be a Labour government and they would at least have a go at making the changes they want to.
Approximately 4.6 million people are experiencing poverty in the UK today. This is, in fairness, considerably better than southern EU are doing, but it's still a problem.

(Original post by Trinculo)
Contrast that with Cyprus. The EU controls the Cypriot economy utterly. Cyprus has no influence on any policy of the EU and there is nothing they can do about it. The value of their imports, exports, money - all is utterly out of their hands. Barely any young people have jobs - and what can they do about it? Vote in a different national government who are still constrained by exactly the same thing. This is exactly what happened in Greece.

If you don't like what the EU is doing, the mechanisms do not exist to change them. You tell them you oppose them - they tell you that you are too stupid to possibly understand, and then they go ahead and do it anyway.
The EU is not the only entity to blame for this, though. Rich countries have been screwing over poor countries since time immemorial, it's basically for that purpose that countries were invented in the first place.
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ChaoticButterfly
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#13
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(Original post by Underscore__)
Whenever I see the word globalist this guy comes to mind
Name:  A0FC2C10-E272-45C9-9DFA-3EC3A17D8C5A.jpg.jpeg
Views: 59
Size:  30.3 KB
Personally I get this. It's like he is trying his best to appear fascist. Globalisim is a much better word at it implies the description of a systemic process as apposed to globalist which decribes an individual. Which is a) not how the global economy works, there is no global conspiracy. And b) easily falls away from dumb conspiracy about space lizards towards racism.
Spoiler:
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Davij038
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#14
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#14
(Original post by Trinculo)
But is there any evidence whatsoever that the EU is capable of reform? The EU is moving further in the direction of increasing power and control and reducing any kind of accountability.
It won’t have any choice. The problem wasn’t so much the EU as it was weak national leaders. With Merkel on the brink we should start to see a far more nationalist EU.
M

millions in southern Europe are trapped in desperate poverty which they are utterly powerless to do anything about. This has been going on for a decade and must be seen as an utter failure of the EU
That’s more a Euro problem than the EU per se
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Davij038
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(Original post by Underscore__)
Whenever I see the word globalist this guy comes to mind
Name:  A0FC2C10-E272-45C9-9DFA-3EC3A17D8C5A.jpg.jpeg
Views: 59
Size:  30.3 KB
Based Alex , saviour of the frogs
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Davij038
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Personally I get this. It's like he is trying his best to appear fascist. Globalisim is a much better word at it implies the description of a systemic process as apposed to globalist which decribes an individual. Which is a) not how the global economy works,
U wot m8? Why can’t you have a globalist as someone who advocates for this ‘systemic process to happen’ in the same way you can have a communist believing in communism?

[/quote]
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[/QUOTE]

More or less, it’s a shame the subject is so taboo.
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Trinculo
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#17
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(Original post by Davij038)
It won’t have any choice. The problem wasn’t so much the EU as it was weak national leaders. With Merkel on the brink we should start to see a far more nationalist EU.
This is conjecture. There is no evidence that the EU changes regardless of who is in charge nationally. The stall the EU has set out is that it will do whatever it takes for a federal Europe, and that anyone that stands in their way will either be ignored or destroyed.



That’s more a Euro problem than the EU per se
The Euro is indivisible from the EU. Only Britain and Denmark didn't join in because it was at the start of the project - for everyone else it's a requirement (albeit at some point in the future) but the Euro is an essential part of the EU.
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Davij038
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(Original post by Trinculo)
This is conjecture. There is no evidence that the EU changes regardless of who is in charge nationally. The stall the EU has set out is that it will do whatever it takes for a federal Europe, and that anyone that stands in their way will either be ignored or destroyed.
Do you think that if all the 27 member states elected populist right wing leaders and had complete control over the European Parliament the same way the EPP does now it wouldn’t change anything?

There is no evidence it will or won’t, but it should work in theory without good reason.


The Euro is indivisible from the EU. Only Britain and Denmark didn't join in because it was at the start of the project - for everyone else it's a requirement (albeit at some point in the future) but the Euro is an essential part of the EU.
As above, it depends. For instance, if a country such as Italy were to hold a referendum to leave the euro it could be accommodated .

Inb4 evidence. Before brexit there is no evidence that a country could leave the EU after a referendum as other countries bottled it when push cane to shove. The democratic elements to the EU will give way and this will change the political reality- see Brexit.
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remiaitman
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at least England isn't surrounded by a dozen angry arab nations desiring for the commencement of genocidal activities using a mongrel race of people as a reason in which to justify their attempts at the extermenation of a religious people
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Trinculo
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(Original post by Davij038)
Do you think that if all the 27 member states elected populist right wing leaders and had complete control over the European Parliament the same way the EPP does now it wouldn’t change anything?

There is no evidence it will or won’t, but it should work in theory without good reason.




As above, it depends. For instance, if a country such as Italy were to hold a referendum to leave the euro it could be accommodated .

Inb4 evidence. Before brexit there is no evidence that a country could leave the EU after a referendum as other countries bottled it when push cane to shove. The democratic elements to the EU will give way and this will change the political reality- see Brexit.
Agreed that everything is new territory here - I would offer that any change might be the result of the Brexit catalyst - but my personal feeling is that the EU will feel that the silver lining to the loss of a major nation is that some of the chief troublemakers are gone, and they can push ahead with projects that Britain would especially have been opposed to. EU Army seems one of the obvious ones.
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