The Student Room Group

Could Syrians become the new Palestinians?

Potentially a very prescient article laying out exactly how far the after effects of this calamitous war could stretch.





Bashar al-Assad is victorious. But Syria's refugees may destabilise the Middle East for decades

THE monstrous dictator has won. Bashar al-Assad has bombed, gassed and starved his enemies out of the biggest cities. He has made fools of Barack Obama and David Cameron, who said he should go but did nothing to bring his departure about. He has shrugged off the missiles that President Donald Trump fired at his bases.
Half a million people have died. Six million people are displaced within Syria; a similar number have fled abroad. Most of the refugees are Sunni Arabs, who made up most of Syria's pre-war population of 23m. Still more may be pushed out as Mr Assad moves to retake mostly Sunni rebel areas in the north and south-west of Syria. His state, meanwhile, is becoming more narrowly sectarian as Alawite (his sect), Shia and Christian minorities start to take over property abandoned by the fleeing Sunnis (see Middle East & Africa section).
Syrians could thus turn into another dispossessed, festering, violent diaspora. Like the Palestinians before them, they could become a destabilising presence across the Middle East. The world has every interest in stopping that from happening.
Mr Assad's survival is a lesson in the use of butchery, the rivalries of his foes and the emptiness of Western pronouncements. By shooting peaceful protesters, Mr Assad provoked them into violence. By releasing jihadists from prison, he turned many into fighters for al-Qaeda and the even more gruesome Islamic State (is). Thus he persuaded terrified Syrian minorities to rally behind him, deterred the West from giving the rebels meaningful help, even when he used chemical weapons, and provided the cover for Iran and Russia to save him in the name of fighting terrorism.
This newspaper has long advocated Mr Assad's removal as the best way to end Syria's nightmare. That opportunity has gone. So what now? Mr Trump says he has no interest in Syria; once his troops have smashed is they will get out of the country's east. It is tempting to give up on Syria. Talking to Mr Assad would legitimise his atrocities. Giving him any money to rebuild his country would be doubly repulsive. Let Russia and Iran fix the devastation they have caused.
Yet that would be shortsighted. Apart from the moral obligation the world has to help the brutalised Syrian people, the West-particularly Europe-has hard-nosed reasons to stay engaged. One is the need to stem the flow of refugees who, along with other migrants, have fuelled populism in Europe. Another is the danger that a large population of Syrian refugees could act as a lingering poison in the Middle East.
The experience of stateless Palestinians is sobering. Those who fled or were pushed out by a nascent Israel in 1947-48 fomented much violence. Their raids helped ignite the ArabIsraeli war of 1967. Their fighters lost a civil war in Jordan in 1970; in Lebanon, they helped precipitate the 15-year civil war in 1975 and the Israeli invasion of 1982. Some also turned to international terrorism and helped radicals in Europe.
It would be no surprise if Syrian refugees-many times more numerous than the 750,000 Palestinians uprooted during the birth of Israel-became similarly radicalised. They would be easy prey for jihadists. Right now, even without violence, refugees are straining host countries, such as Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey. A lesson from the Palestinians is that the longer refugees stay out, the less likely they are to return. Many Syrians flinch at the idea of going back, fearful that they will be killed, forced into camps or dragooned into the army.
Quid pro quick return
The first step to getting refugees home is some form of lasting ceasefire, and preferably a broader political deal. This should involve power-sharing in Damascus, and the devolution of power to the provinces. Mr Assad accepted little of this when he was losing. Would he do so now that he is winning? He is already reconfiguring the country in favour of those who stayed loyal. The West, and Arab states, have only weak levers. Still, he might want better ties with them to avoid becoming entirely dependent on Russia and Iran, to help him recover control of his borders and, above all, to find the billions of dollars he needs to reconstruct his shattered country.
America, Europe and Arab states could test his intentions by offering Syria limited humanitarian funds to help bring refugees home, on condition that he grants local autonomy. A good place to start would be rebuilding ghost-towns such as Daraya or Douma. Having missed the moment to push Mr Assad out, the world must hold its nose, and try to limit the consequences of the devastation it has allowed him to wreak

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/06/30/syrian-refugees-could-turn-into-the-new-palestinians
(edited 5 years ago)
Excellent article. I agree with everything. Assad has won the war and the fact that rebel groups are still fighting is futile and frankly infuriating, why prolong the fight when defeat is inevitable? Assad has to remain in power and we need to leave him free to finish the remaining rebels provided he does not violate human rights and international codes of conduct regarding warfare. As for the refugees... i have no idea what the future holds for them, I would educate the ones we have taken and attempt to assimilate them, but im not sure Europe as a whole can continue to take more given the increasingly anti-immigration rhetoric these days. I can only see more warfare in that syria/iraq region for the next decade or so.
The jews in palestine are supported by the world's only super power and a host of other technologically advanced and economically strong western nations. I think the jews and palestinians are numerically similar in palestine too. The jews are in a longterm strong stable position, the same I cannot say for Assad.

The alawites and shia, are little in number in Syria, even after mass displacement. They cannot rule over their sunni majority by brute forever. I think alawites only make up around 10% of Syrians and most of them reside in a specific region in syria. Russia and Iran has helped them in this war but those countries are economically weak and whilst they helped now, they may not be able to do so in the future. This I believe is the major difference, when these outside powers become weak or unable to help, the alawites in Syria will fall. They were about to fall in early on in the conflict too but luckily for Assad, ISIS appeared and betrayed/attacked the rebels in the back. Assad may win this war but could he and his alawites and shias fall in the next couple of decades? More than likely.

There are also strong incidents - will mention two cases- from this war which I'm sure sunni Muslims will not forget every quickly:

The sunnis of syria or the world will never forget how their women got raped by alawites
https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/witness/2018/06/silent-war-rape-weapon-syria-180611071447939.html

They won't forget their families or friends being killed by barrel bombs or by some shia militia men who Iran recruited from Afghanistan and Pakistan
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2017/09/16/Iran-recruits-Afghan-and-Pakistani-Shiites-to-fight-in-Syria.html

They can't get their justice just now but syrian sunnis are more likely to get their justice than palestinians are.
A look back to 1982 when the then sunni majority once again tried to revolt against alawite dictatorship

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Hama_massacre

A minority can't rule the majority forever by force forever, so that is why in my opinion, syrian sunnis are less likely to end up like the palestinians.
(edited 5 years ago)
Obama played too safe in Syria because he supported Iran as some kind of overseer in the middle east (after all the plan was to continue arab spring but in gulf monarchies). But Iran played him and brought Russian in the conflict - if Putin wanted himself to step in the conflict and resolve it he should have done in 2012.

Iran and Russia cannot handle Syria separately. Ground forces are mostly iranian. Air forces - russian. And now Russia and Iran are in conflict. But none of them can handle Syria by himself.

And now Trump decided to leave Syria - nothing to do here if Gulf monarchies bring their troops there. After all USA is much more comfortable in orchestrating conflicts instead of participating in them directly. The great winners there Turkey and USA. But not Obama's USA.
(edited 5 years ago)
Reply 5
Original post by Chucke1992
Obama played too safe in Syria because he supported Iran as some kind of overseer in the middle east (after all the plan was to continue arab spring but in gulf monarchies). But Iran played him and brought Russian in the conflict - if Putin wanted himself to step in the conflict and resolve it he should have done in 2012.

This is the first time I have heard some one allege the US supported Tehran. Where on earth did you get the idea that the US 'trusted' Tehran as any sort of overseer. It might well have acquiesed to Irans influence in Iraq but that was most certainly not through choice. Equally you give Putin too much credit here. He might well have levers of power over Assad but to think he can act unilaterally to snap his fingers and Assad will bow down before him is simply not true.

Iran and Russia cannot handle Syria separately. Ground forces are mostly iranian. Air forces - russian. And now Russia and Iran are in conflict. But none of them can handle Syria by himself.

They also cant handle it together as they both have very different agendas. Also it should be noted the claim that most forces are Iranian is at best a half truth. They are shia militias for the most part from Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan et al. Not to mention Hezbollah, widely credited with being the only effective ground force in the war.

And now Trump decided to leave Syria - nothing to do here if Gulf monarchies bring their troops there. After all USA is much more comfortable in orchestrating conflicts instead of participating in them directly. The great winners there Turkey and USA. But not Obama's USA.

*expressing a wish to leave, whether the US will actually be able to extricate itself remains to be seen.
I'm also not sure how you can call either the US or Turkey "great winners" here. Turkey has got itself a bit of strategic depth into Syria but little else and by all measures the US has been trounced on in Syria.
The only people you can call winners here are Russia and Iran - possibly Assad depending on how flexible you're being with the term 'winner'.
"Could Syrians become the new Palestinians?"

With Russia using them to destabilise Israel, like in 1967, there is a chance.
This overlooks that the article considers Syria to be in a worse shape than Iraq or either Afghanistan/Pakistan.

Also: Turkey will become the Pakistan of Europe. Iran will become the Iraq of the Persian Muslim World in the eastern Middle East.
Reply 8
Original post by Logical_Son
"Could Syrians become the new Palestinians?"

With Russia using them to destabilise Israel, like in 1967, there is a chance.

You do know the Russians are a moderating influence on the Syrians vis-a-vis the Israelis right?
Original post by Napp
You do know the Russians are a moderating influence on the Syrians vis-a-vis the Israelis right?


And you are basing that on what? Because I referenced the 6 day War. You might want to read up on that.
Original post by Napp
This is the first time I have heard some one allege the US supported Tehran. Where on earth did you get the idea that the US 'trusted' Tehran as any sort of overseer. It might well have acquiesed to Irans influence in Iraq but that was most certainly not through choice.

The nuclear deal with Iran was the part of globalists to turn Iran into overseer in Middle East as there was a plan to destabilize gulf monarchies. USA wanted to provide shia corridor for Iran. Or at least supported it.

I suggest to read some blogs, documents or something. Not sure where to find it in English though. But they should exist. I read el-murid most of the time but it is in russian. There certain geopolitics discussions I run into from time to time. (but sometimes it is funny to read contradictory statements, like for example left claims that Putin is a chessmaster, while in Russia he is considered a huge failure that lead Russia to collapse - ok there are also those with opposite opinions too)

Original post by Napp
Equally you give Putin too much credit here. He might well have levers of power over Assad but to think he can act unilaterally to snap his fingers and Assad will bow down before him is simply not true.

Assad is nothing in Syria today. He exists simply due to Russia influence. After all the monetary support for militants on Assad's side come from Russia.

Original post by Napp
They also cant handle it together as they both have very different agendas.

*expressing a wish to leave, whether the US will actually be able to extricate itself remains to be seen.

True. But original agenda was the same - deal with the west here. That's why USA wanted to prevent possible Turkey, Russia and Iran alliance. They did it with Turkey and now Russia and Iran started the conflict, while USA can successfully leave the region leaving it to Israel and Saudis with their sunnis. Agenda has changed - Trump's america is imperialistic and not globalistic so it doesn't care about islands of stability.

Original post by Napp
Also it should be noted the claim that most forces are Iranian is at best a half truth. They are shia militias for the most part from Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan et al. Not to mention Hezbollah, widely credited with being the only effective ground force in the war.

Yeah, yeah and who backs the shias? I guess the only strong shia country in the region...Iran?

Original post by Napp

I'm also not sure how you can call either the US or Turkey "great winners" here. Turkey has got itself a bit of strategic depth into Syria but little else and by all measures the US has been trounced on in Syria.
The only people you can call winners here are Russia and Iran - possibly Assad depending on how flexible you're being with the term 'winner'.

Iran got instability and lost the possible shia corridor, while Russia got Assad to spend money from the budget and one out of three oil pipes. Heavy winner.
(edited 5 years ago)
Reply 11
Original post by Logical_Son
And you are basing that on what? Because I referenced the 6 day War. You might want to read up on that.

You do know its 2018 right? Things have changed a touch from half a century ago
:rolleyes:
Original post by Chucke1992
The nuclear deal with Iran was the part of globalists to turn Iran into overseer in Middle East as there was a plan to destabilize gulf monarchies. USA wanted to provide shia corridor for Iran. Or at least supported it.

I'm curious, where did you get this idea from? I mean as individual points they're not particularly novel but i havent heard them tied together like that before.

I suggest to read some blogs, documents or something. Not sure where to find it in English though. But they should exist. I read el-murid most of the time but it is in russian. There certain geopolitics discussions I run into from time to time. (but sometimes it is funny to read contradictory statements, like for example left claims that Putin is a chessmaster, while in Russia he is considered a huge failure that lead Russia to collapse)

My Russian is likely not good enough to be reading articles in but we shall see - none the less though since when is there a popular mood of Putin being a failure? I havent heard a single person, bar some dissidents perhaps, try and make such a claim.

Assad is nothing in Syria today. He exists simply due to Russia influence. After all the monetary support for militants on Assad's side come from Russia.

You're forgetting Iran and Hezbollah.
[quote]
True. But original agenda was the same - deal with the west here. That's why USA wanted to prevent possible Turkey, Russia and Iran alliance. They did it with Turkey and now Russia and Iran started the conflict, while USA can successfully leave the region leaving it to Israel and Saudis with their sunnis. Agenda has changed - Trump's america is imperialistic and not globalistic so it doesn't care about islands of stability.
Mm yes and no. Again, your points in of themselves dont come across overly outlandish but the way you're spinning them as some sinister cabal saps any credence from them.
I mean for instance saying that Turkey/Russia/Iran are getting along is at best a half truth - they have coalescing interests they're all pushing and if they happen to coincide yippie for them but to say theyre allies is simply not the case.

Yeah, yeah and who backs the shias? I guess the only strong shia country in the region...Iran?

That doesnt make them Iranian forces. Being Shia and Iranian are in no way the same thing.

Iran got instability and lost the possible shia corridor, while Russia got Assad to spend money from the budget and one out of three oil pipes. Heavy winner.

Thats a questionable leap of logic. Especially seeing as Syria hasnt really paid for anything yet. It has no economy to speak of and certainly no infrastructure.
Original post by Napp
You do know its 2018 right? Things have changed a touch from half a century ago
:rolleyes:



So you didn't bother to read up on the 6dw. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. But no doubt you have some pointlessly glib comment and a emoji to go with it.
Reply 13
Original post by Logical_Son
So you didn't bother to read up on the 6dw. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. But no doubt you have some pointlessly glib comment and a emoji to go with it.


No i was just going to point out the inherent stupidity of trying to read Russia's foreign policy through the lens of the 1960's. As for anyone with even the most basic understanding of Russian and Israeli foreign policies we can see that the two countries are getting on famously right now.
I suggest you take a peek in the present if you're going to try and comment on it.
Original post by Napp
No i was just going to point out the inherent stupidity of trying to read Russia's foreign policy through the lens of the 1960's. As for anyone with even the most basic understanding of Russian and Israeli foreign policies we can see that the two countries are getting on famously right now.
I suggest you take a peek in the present if you're going to try and comment on it.


Even if that history is rather similar to now? Like I say those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. I suggest you learn some more history. Unless you are one of those Year Zero types. You know, thick, lazy people who find learning something a bit of a drag, and would much prefer to spout some opinion.
Reply 15
Original post by Logical_Son
Even if that history is rather similar to now? Like I say those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. I suggest you learn some more history. Unless you are one of those Year Zero types. You know, thick, lazy people who find learning something a bit of a drag, and would much prefer to spout some opinion.


You can keep repeating that quote until you're blue in the face. Alas, it doesn't make what you're saying true.
No, but it doesn't make it untrue. Are you honestly saying that a knowledge of history would be of no use to you.
Original post by Napp
none the less though since when is there a popular mood of Putin being a failure? I havent heard a single person, bar some dissidents perhaps, try and make such a claim.


The thing is the west community most of the time is not that familiar with Russia. Usually russians learn english and join english communities and blogsphere. But english speaking people rarely learn russian to participate in russian blog sphere.

The problem is Russian mentality. A lot of people believe that closing factories, schools, hospitals, tearing apart regions, bands of chechens are the things done by governors and that Putin is not aware about it (standard mentality of good-king and bad nobility). Hell, even number of schools is now almost the same as number of churches and Ortodoxy is even trying to take over old soviet school buildings and some territories.

But of course there are a lot of people dreaming of taking over neighbourhood countries (there is a tendency to fascism actually in Russia due to Putin's power accumulation). After all - "who cares if we are poor? we have a lot of territories!" - it is imperialistic mentality but it is not backed by prosperity.


Officials from the TV say that people should use grass and oak bark for curing deceases, there are laws that prohibit fishing, territories are sold to China and so on.

Nowadays all internal russian politics are : raising taxes, increase oil price in the country, introduce new laws to control people, create dumps around towns, pollute air and rives (governors prefer to live outside Russia). Also they take over territories and sometimes even build walls in the middle of the brigde over the river.

Not to mention privileged armenians, chechens and rich children that can even drive in the underground passages and get nothing. Hell, officials can kill a couple of people and get nothing in the end. People there is moving towards lynching already, thus there were even clauses that prohibit any hostile action against migrants (who of course can shot in the air, use traumatic weapons without consequences...yet russian person can be jailed for some image).

Original post by Napp

Thats a questionable leap of logic. Especially seeing as Syria hasnt really paid for anything yet. It has no economy to speak of and certainly no infrastructure.

Of course. aNd it won't. Because the ones who will pay will be Russians as always. Their government lost billions of dollars last year and nobody in the government knew who took it (lol). Or for example they took over pension funds couple of times. There is even half-joking slogan - "work hard, die young". Officials ask people to work on multiple jobs from TV and blame west for that (not oligarchs who took over soviet property and russian resources).

Basically Russia is in neo-feodalism now.

P.s. if you have a lot of money, there is no better place than russia - you literally will be a demi-god there as long as you are a friend with right people.
(edited 5 years ago)

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