dezza
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I know this may have been asked a few times on here, but I have an offer of a place on both a foundation degree and a HND course, but even though the content is similar, I was wondering how different these are.

I am applying for media courses, and would like to know which qualification may be more beneficial when moving onto further study, such as an honours degree, and which would look better to an employer on a CV?

If anyone has any experience of either one, I'd be happy to hear your views.

Thanks in advance
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ShinyApple
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A foundation degree is more often than not only recognised by the university teaching it, though a transcript can be offered at the end.

HND courses are fully recognised and certified courses which can lead to anything.

The obvious thing would be to take an HND, though it is wise to consider which university offers the best prospects.

Which one looks better? Hard to say. HND, as I said, is a certificate and a qualification. Foundation level is not. However, the foundation level is not necessarily a bad thing and shows determination to study.
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dezza
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Both the offers I have allow for progression to a full honours degree, but I thought that HNDs were getting less popular and foundation degrees the opposite?
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AT82
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Foundation Degree's are a sort of replacement for HNDs. They are more popular as they are easier to teach as the university designs the course.

What is stopping you doing from a full honours degree in the first place?
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ShinyApple
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Yep, it's very likely that they both offer progression. HND's can also sometimes allow you to miss the 1st year of a degree level course if you can show distinction in your work.

HNDs aren't less popular, however, you'd be right in suggesting that foundation level courses are. They are certainly becoming more and more accepted and many mature students are coming to university through that route.
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dezza
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Thanks for the responses

I don't have the formal qualifications to do a full honours degree, I only have work experience which is why I'm applying for these courses. But if what I've been told is correct, that it would take two years for the HND/FD, then a further top up year to gain an honours degree, so it should take the same length of time.
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ShinyApple
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Nope. If you do a foundation level course, you will then progress on to doing the 1st year of a full degree. Therefore it will take 4 years to complete a 3 year degree course.

If you do an HND, it will take the same amount of time as a foundation, unless you show exceptional merit and then you may be able to progress to the 2nd level of a degree course.
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dezza
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Sorry, I didn't explain it clearly enough - I'm applying to do a foundation degree, not a foundation course.
So it should take two years for the foundation degree, plus a top up year.
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IndelibleBlack
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I'm appyling for something similar, the difference being mines an Art course - your post helped me out too! Thanks.
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ShinyApple
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No, I see now. Sorry, my bad. All the same applies though of course.
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Good bloke
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Yes, you can do that can't you? It doesn't make much sense to me though. If a foundation degree is for people deemed incapable of doing a full degree, how can you do the work necessary to get the student to that level and finish the honours degree in the same timescale?
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dezza
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I know people who have done the foundation degree and completed the honours top-up in three years. There is a bridging course usually, which takes place over the summer holiday in the second year, so there's about six weeks extra study.

The work for FDs/HNDs are more vocational than honours' degrees, but they are supposed to be at roughly the same level.
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Minnie m
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(Original post by ShinyApple)
No, I see now. Sorry, my bad. All the same applies though of course.

Your advice here is completely wrong and miss-informed..A foundation degree is a DEGREE level qualification, the clue is in the wording! With this qualification you may enter onto the final year of an honours degree, its that simple..The foundation degree came about as the education sector began to streamline the qualifications system. The Dip He i.e Diploma in higher education has been replaced with the FD. It is a high level practice encompassing qualification as it includes a work practice based module e.g. in counselling and psychotherapy 150 hrs of clinical practice are part of the Foundation degree
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edjunkie
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There are degrees with foundation years, effectively a year 0 on a degree program. They are aimed at people who do not meet the entrance criteria for the year 1 of the degree. The foundation year can be used to cross train, say for example you studied the wrong subjects for the degree you want to do.

A foundation degree is a 2 year course. It is similar to a HND, but the awarding body is the university. A HND is awarded by separate examing body to the university. By the QCF/NQF it is worth 240 credits of the 360 credits you need for an undergraduate degree.

You can progress from a foundation degree or HND to a one one year top up degree. Your ability to progress depends on how closely your existing qualification matches up with the top up degree qualification. You couldn't use your Business Studies HND to gain enterance to a top up degree in engineering and vice versa.

In terms of employer recognition, a HND has better recognition, as it has been around longer. The government is keen on foundation degrees because it is a way of reducing the cost of higher education. As they don't believe a 3 year program is essential to meet employers needs.
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evening sunrise
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(Original post by Minnie m)
Your advice here is completely wrong and miss-informed..A foundation degree is a DEGREE level qualification, the clue is in the wording! With this qualification you may enter onto the final year of an honours degree, its that simple..The foundation degree came about as the education sector began to streamline the qualifications system. The Dip He i.e Diploma in higher education has been replaced with the FD. It is a high level practice encompassing qualification as it includes a work practice based module e.g. in counselling and psychotherapy 150 hrs of clinical practice are part of the Foundation degree
Nope. The foundation degree does not result in graduate status and you cannot tick the graduate box on a job application. It does provide the 240 credits towards the total of 360 required for an actual degree and agraduate status. Also if you look at normal 3 year degrees the first year is designated as certificate level, the second year diploma level and the third year as degree level. On an FD you only cover years one and two.

There is no clue in the wording at all, it is simply marketing and product positioning to enourage take-up. Your answer does demonstrate this approach to be effective. The same approach is adopted for millions of other products, like Panasonic launching what was claimed to be the worlds smallest DSLR, except that it does not have a reflex mirror and hence by definition is not an SLR and it is the mirror that determines the size. Panasonic have now back away from the initial claim. As others have said you can do a third year conversion and in that third year you will do the degree level study and if successful obtain a degree and graduate status.

I believe this proliferation in qualifications is at one level crazy. If one can start a Fd with one A level and then do a conversion, why don't they accept people for a degree with one A level and if they do not want to do the third year, or find that the second year is their limit, let them stop and give them an Fd or diploma? The Fd is awarded by a Uni, the one at East Durham College for example is controlled by Leeds Met Uni.

Again the answer is quite simple and related to perception and messaging. The current top up approach is perceived as and indeed is a progression of increasing success and achievement, the approach above would be deemed "failure or dropping out" at the end of year 2. Perception is everything.

But why make it simple for students and employers if one can make it more difficult and complex for both.....
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mineboy360
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(Original post by ShinyApple)
No, I see now. Sorry, my bad. All the same applies though of course.
yo ...wats up.........

I just need to know if the HND course is better than the foundation.......

As with the HND you can top up to the second year of the degree course........
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Minnie m
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(Original post by evening sunrise)
Nope. The foundation degree does not result in graduate status and you cannot tick the graduate box on a job application. It does provide the 240 credits towards the total of 360 required for an actual degree and agraduate status. Also if you look at normal 3 year degrees the first year is designated as certificate level, the second year diploma level and the third year as degree level. On an FD you only cover years one and two.

There is no clue in the wording at all, it is simply marketing and product positioning to enourage take-up. Your answer does demonstrate this approach to be effective. The same approach is adopted for millions of other products, like Panasonic launching what was claimed to be the worlds smallest DSLR, except that it does not have a reflex mirror and hence by definition is not an SLR and it is the mirror that determines the size. Panasonic have now back away from the initial claim. As others have said you can do a third year conversion and in that third year you will do the degree level study and if successful obtain a degree and graduate status.

I believe this proliferation in qualifications is at one level crazy. If one can start a Fd with one A level and then do a conversion, why don't they accept people for a degree with one A level and if they do not want to do the third year, or find that the second year is their limit, let them stop and give them an Fd or diploma? The Fd is awarded by a Uni, the one at East Durham College for example is controlled by Leeds Met Uni.

Again the answer is quite simple and related to perception and messaging. The current top up approach is perceived as and indeed is a progression of increasing success and achievement, the approach above would be deemed "failure or dropping out" at the end of year 2. Perception is everything.

But why make it simple for students and employers if one can make it more difficult and complex for both.....
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Funny that I graduated with a foundation degree 2 years ago with distinction in a B.A FDSc in Psychotherapy, Just to be clear GRADUATED along with the other university graduates of other degree levels. The degree is 3 YEARS LONG, I am eligible to progress straight to the final year to be awarded the (honours) as per my distinction..Unless I wanted to teach in this area there is no benefit to be had as the requirement for the field is covered inc 2 years of placement in various mental health facilities. (Nursing is also 3 years)..Sorry say again how little use this qualification is in comparison to HND??? £40.00 + per hour wage - happy
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Minnie m
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(Original post by mineboy360)
yo ...wats up.........

I just need to know if the HND course is better than the foundation.......

As with the HND you can top up to the second year of the degree course........
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I graduated with a foundation degree 2 years ago with distinction in a B.A FDSc in Psychotherapy, Just to be clear GRADUATED along with the other university graduates of other degree levels. The degree is 3 YEARS LONG, I am eligible to progress straight to the final year to be awarded the (honours) as per my distinction..Unless I wanted to teach in this area there is no benefit to be had as the requirement for the field is covered inc 2 years of placement in various mental health facilities. (Nursing is also 3 years)..
Some confusing replies to this topic on here..I have both, did a HND in health and social care a few years back, it was an entry onto a degree programme ok (I didnt need it for that as I had 3 A' levels A,B,B) The FD is very well recognised as it is a higher level course i.e 3 years with work based practice..The same with a FD in early years education, its a route straight to year 3 of the teaching degree.. Hnd's are not a route into final years of a degree just an entry route to the beginning of a degree. Personally FD's are 'good enough' to lead to high level employment if you choose well..This comes from someone who has experience in your question rather than some people who throw any old opinion out, fact based or not
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paigeycakes15
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Hi I just wondered if you had any info that could help me..

Im currently doing a HND in Business management... and its going to take 2 years to complete.

there is an additional top up year that can apparently give me a degree level qaulification but do you think I would be able to go straight onto a 3rd year degree course in the same topic?

any advice on the best path? I just want to graduate

Thanks
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EddT
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A foundation degree is not a degree. I accept that you graduated, but please be clear that this verb means you completed the course it does not imply that you are a graduate in the way you appear to infer.
Your qualification is not worth less than a HND if used as a vocational qualification, nor is it worth less if you decide to top up to honours with the University which awarded you your certificate - after which you may call yourself a graduate without looking a little foolish. the problem arises if you decide to use a different University to top up. In other words, as has already been stated, your qualification is not universal.
I hope this goes some way to alleviating your confusion.
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