Kevin70
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A second referendum seems necessary to finalise the fate of brexit specially as the majority of people have changed their minds and want to stay in EU.
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hello_shawn
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You can't say that for everyone
Didn't you know that the poorest areas of the UK most reliant on the EU grant pot voted to leave? You can call them "stupid" but I commend their voters for refusing to be nannied
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Kevin70)
A second referendum seems necessary to finalise the fate of brexit specially as the majority of people have changed their minds and want to stay in EU.
A majority of people certainly have not changed their minds.

A small minority of people have changed their minds and possibly a slightly larger minority of people who did not vote because they wrongly assumed Remain would win, would be minded to vote.

However, the vast majority of the public would vote the same way now that they voted (or didn't vote) in 2016
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Revolver72
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
A majority of people certainly have not changed their minds.

A small minority of people have changed their minds and possibly a slightly larger minority of people who did not vote because they wrongly assumed Remain would win, would be minded to vote.

However, the vast majority of the public would vote the same way now that they voted (or didn't vote) in 2016
Given that the percentage was 52/48 in favour, the fact that a minority will have changed their minds could potentially be more than enough to sway the vote the other way (literally a 2.1% swing, which is perfectly plausible, would be enough). That would then show that the democratic will of the people, in the light of the recent negotiations, is to remain in the European Union. I'm not suggesting this will or won't be the case, incidentally.

I totally understand the argument of 'no second referendum', but to play devil's advocate:

The argument of 'the democratic will of the nation vs potential detriment to the economic and political situation of the country':
If Brexit is shown to pose a threat to the economy of Britain, then whilst it may be the democratic will of the people, it would not be in the best interests of the country and its people - so where morally should the government position itself? (Again, I'm not saying it is or isn't, just curious to others' opinions)

When I voted in the EU Referendum, I saw a ballot paper which stated 'Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union, or leave the European Union'. It didn't ask about any potential deals, or about 'hard' and 'soft' Brexit; there was no long list of ifs, buts and maybes. The UK voted, slightly, in favour of leaving. Given that the deal being negotiated is proving to be problematic, and our bargaining power is unequivocally weakened, it would therefore be undemocratic not to ask the people if they accept that deal - particularly given that Brexit will demonstrably affect the UK?

Ultimately, a second referendum is a total faff, I don't think anyone from either side would dispute that. I'm fairly sure nobody wants to go through 'yet another' referendum. However, what harm does it do? If the UK still opts for Brexit, following the negotiations (so that they're actually effectively accepting or rejecting something tangible, rather than the previous hypothetical) then Brexit goes ahead, and that would be the democratic will of the people. In the event that the UK votes to remain in the EU, following the results of the negotiations, then that would be the democratic will of the people.

At the end of the day, if a second referendum shows people to accept the negotiations, then Brexit goes ahead and the majority are happy. If they reject it, then that's the democratic will of the people, and the majority are happy. Is this not democratic, given that the voters haven't had any opportunity to actually vote on the reality of Brexit, merely a hypothetical (which any Brexit voter, I'm sure, would admit has been significantly more complex and problematic than anyone anticipated)?

I honestly don't know what's best, now. But what is the case is that it's been a total farce so far.
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Drewski
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(Original post by Kevin70)
the majority of people have changed their minds and want to stay in EU.
Prove it.
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StriderHort
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Well there seems like plenty uncertainty anyway....what with the complete failure to make any progress externally or internally and the resignation of most of the government over the issue at some point, it's probably the democratic thing to do to ask again

It's very telling that the 52% 'Will of the People' are increasingly terrified of actually being counted again. Despite it being also increasingly obvious it's what we're going to have to do.
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MadamePompadour
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I dont think many people have changed their mind. I know a few 'remainers' that are now saying they really didnt believe the rest of the EU would behave the way they are and they would now vote to leave. I only know 1 'leaver' who has changed their mind to remain but thats purely based on their employer now saying they will make redundancies the day we leave the EU because they dont know how their business will opperate once we leave so theyd rather be cautious, save some money to give a buffer and then recruit again later down the line if everything is going ok. Everyone else Ive spoken to are sticking with their choice. I think the problem is that many younger generations dont know how the country works outside of the EU. Its some sort of safety net to them. Many of the older generations know that that country works just fine outside the EU but if you dont know that then you are more likely to accept the status quo. I also think that people believe that their day to day living will be affected in a huge way. The thing is, you will probably barely notice much difference. I see the EU as a huge employer, the UK is an employee. That employee (UK) has been performing brilliantly, earning their employer huge sums of money and really progressing the company (EU). If the employee (UK) leaves that company (EU) and sets up business alone their business will thrive because they have the skills, knowledge and abilities to do well, they have great client contacts who will support their move and their business will thrive opening up opportunities for others along the way. Remaining employed in that company (EU) for fear of what might happen makes that employee miserable and less productive. That employee (UK) just plods along and keeps making money for their employer (EU) and not getting any of the praise or rewards for their own hard work.
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Simone250900
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i disagree the country have made their cake and now we have to eat it, people did or didn't vote or if they did some didn't vote with the intention, no one believed we would have a brexit .fact. once it was relieved everyone was in panic understandably but if people wanted it then now its actually happening they want to back out and its not right. our government didnt ask for this but they are doing as the public voted so grow a back bone and stand by your vote whether you regret it or not whether you agree with it or not what id done is dont and we look weaker as a country to back out and back track - even if it was a mistake we have to pay for it now not have another bloody vote after vote after vote
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Andrew97
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Do you have any evidence that a majority have changed their mind?
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Kevin70
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That is true, a second referendum must be held specially the people were lied to about the merits abd demerits of brexit. Main ministers have already resigned in protest.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Kevin70)
That is true, a second referendum must be held specially the people were lied to about the merits abd demerits of brexit. Main ministers have already resigned in protest.
No. A second referendum must be held because nothing will pass the Commons without one (there is no majority for anything in Parliament at present) and May can only lose votes in a general election.
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Pantera Fan Club
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Better stock up on the powdered milk, the canned meat, and the petrol, folks.
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random_matt
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need a referendum on the plan, then we can all say no.
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Terry Tibbs
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Need a referendum on whether or not we should have another referendum.
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Kevin70
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Second referendum will fail brexit, that is why government is afraid of it. Our system is moving away from democracy towards totalitarianism.
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Kevin70
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Labour can help setting the second referendum. This might be the best time as surveys show most people regret voting exit as they were so unaware of the economic and political consequences of brexit. Many big companies are either going bust or planning to move out of UK. Situation seems critical and USA is not in a position to help us out economically specially as US is at a losing economic war with China and Russia at one front and EU at another front. Also with US coming sanctions on Iran, the oil market will probably collapse and dire situations will arise fast.
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MadamePompadour
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Heres the result of the latest published British Social Attitudes survey showing support for Brexit has increased over the last 3 years.
http://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-r...35/europe.aspx
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Kevin70
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Remain vote is currently leading the polls which justifies a second referendum specially as UK seems not able to cope without EU.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics...rexit-icm-poll
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hello_shawn
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Guardian eh? They're just a leftist Daily Mail. Guardian will only report polls that back remain.
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Kevin70
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The reason why majority of people support remain is because they have realised that they have been deceived by government’s disinformation campaign. Second referendum is the only way to save UK economy.
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