is it dangerous to encourage gender transitions for trans gender people

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jkfdnas
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first of all i'm not transphobic in any way, i do believe trans people should be given equal rights. but that does not mean trans people should be encouraged or entitled to a sex change

however gender dysphoria is a mental disorder and doctors and sjws promoting those who suffer from gender dysphoria to have a change from boy to girl (and vice versa) is normalising and accepting mental illness. allowing people to change their gender is absurd, it's like reassuring a schizophrenic that the voices in their head are real. instead the mental illness itself must be addressed as a mental illness. ( consider this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957 )

as well as the backwards and illogical stance people have taken to gender dysphoria, there are negative effects on mental health after transitioning: '[a] study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population.'

that is from the article https://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mc...ion-1402615120 which you may want to read

additionally many people do lose these feelings of being a different gender after transitioning, which i'm sure you can imagine is devastating. '70%-80% of [children] spontaneously lost those feelings.' (from the same article. ) the fact that this is for children shows the terrible effect the encouragement of transitioning has on people especially children who are impressionable and may not understand their bodies entirely. so propaganda in the media branding transgender people as 'heroes' is dangerous and unacceptable. the website http://www.sexchangeregret.com/ is an additional source.

anyway sorry if my argument is a messy and i probably missed some things out. i am interested to hear other thoughts on the matter
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DarthRoar
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Encouraged? It would be stupid to encourage transgender surgery. If someone opts for it, it should be their decision without any encouragement needed. They should be absolutely certain that they want the surgery. If encouragement is needed, then they shouldn't have the surgery.
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jkfdnas
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(Original post by DarthRoar)
Encouraged? It would be stupid to encourage transgender surgery. If someone opts for it, it should be their decision without any encouragement needed. They should be absolutely certain that they want the surgery. If encouragement is needed, then they shouldn't have the surgery.
they would be 'absolutely certain that they want the surgery' due to their mental disorder and doctors allowing surgery is siding with a mental illness
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(Original post by jkfdnas)
they would be 'absolutely certain that they want the surgery' due to their mental disorder and doctors allowing surgery is siding with a mental illness
Patient autonomy is one of the pillars of medical ethics. By your argument, a doctor accepting a patient's choice to not want to take psychiatric medication is also siding with mental illness.
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jkfdnas
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(Original post by Anonymous)
Patient autonomy is one of the pillars of medical ethics. By your argument, a doctor accepting a patient's choice to not want to take psychiatric medication is also siding with mental illness.
imagine someone offers a suicidal person help in the form of therapy or something, they could reject help. but if they want to end their own life and someone gave them the means to do so for example giving them a lethal dose of a drug. obviously this is ludicrous... this is a more extreme analogy i know but still similar logic
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Anonymous #2
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These people need help
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syntheticanimal
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(Original post by jkfdnas)
first of all i'm not transphobic in any way, i do believe trans people should be given equal rights. but that does not mean trans people should be encouraged or entitled to a sex change

however gender dysphoria is a mental disorder and doctors and sjws promoting those who suffer from gender dysphoria to have a change from boy to girl (and vice versa) is normalising and accepting mental illness. allowing people to change their gender is absurd, it's like reassuring a schizophrenic that the voices in their head are real. instead the mental illness itself must be addressed as a mental illness. ( consider this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957 )

as well as the backwards and illogical stance people have taken to gender dysphoria, there are negative effects on mental health after transitioning: '[a] study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population.'

that is from the article https://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mc...ion-1402615120 which you may want to read

additionally many people do lose these feelings of being a different gender after transitioning, which i'm sure you can imagine is devastating. '70%-80% of [children] spontaneously lost those feelings.' (from the same article. ) the fact that this is for children shows the terrible effect the encouragement of transitioning has on people especially children who are impressionable and may not understand their bodies entirely. so propaganda in the media branding transgender people as 'heroes' is dangerous and unacceptable. the website http://www.sexchangeregret.com/ is an additional source.

anyway sorry if my argument is a messy and i probably missed some things out. i am interested to hear other thoughts on the matter
1. if you're going to argue gender dysphoria is a mentalhealth problem (disputed), then providing transition healthcare (HRT, SRS/GRS, etc) is the way of treating it
2. "the transgendered" isn't even a word and makes no grammatical sense. your sources clearly don't know what they're talking about
3. suicide rates are higher among transgender people because we're personally and systematically abused and *because we can't access the healthcare we need*
4. nobody is performing surgery on or providing HRT to children. the NHS minimum age for hormones to be prescribed is 16, and for most private providers is 18
5. yes you are transphobic and i'd suggest listening to actual transgender people instead of these weirdos who are obsessed with us and never seem to have their facts right

i'm not even going to read your sources because i don't really feel like putting myself through that today and some of them look dodgy as **** (i'm pretty sure sexchangeregret is run by a hate group, although i may be wrong) anyway how about asking oh i don't know, the NHS? https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Gender-dysphoria/
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by jkfdnas)
imagine someone offers a suicidal person help in the form of therapy or something, they could reject help. but if they want to end their own life and someone gave them the means to do so for example giving them a lethal dose of a drug. obviously this is ludicrous... this is a more extreme analogy i know but still similar logic
You must be unfamiliar with euthanasia. It does happen in hospitals upon the request of patient's families and legal euthanasia will be just that. Also, will you say doctors are wrong for respecting a DNR order?
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Anonymous #3
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[QUOTE=syntheticanimal;78778476]1. if you're going to argue gender dysphoria is a mentalhealth problem (disputed), then providing transition healthcare (HRT, SRS/GRS, etc) is the way of treating it
2. "the transgendered" isn't even a word and makes no grammatical sense. your sources clearly don't know what they're talking about
3. suicide rates are higher among transgender people because we're personally and systematically abused and *because we can't access the healthcare we need*
4. nobody is performing surgery on or providing HRT to children. the NHS minimum age for hormones to be prescribed is 16, and for most private providers is 18
5. yes you are transphobic and i'd suggest listening to actual transgender people instead of these weirdos who are obsessed with us and never seem to have their facts right

i'm not even going to read your sources because i don't really feel like putting myself through that today and some of them look dodgy as **** (i'm pretty sure sexchangeregret is run by a hate group, although i may be wrong) anyway how about asking oh i don't know, the NHS? https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Gender-dysphoria/[/QUOT
(Original post by syntheticanimal)
1. if you're going to argue gender dysphoria is a mentalhealth problem (disputed), then providing transition healthcare (HRT, SRS/GRS, etc) is the way of treating it
2. "the transgendered" isn't even a word and makes no grammatical sense. your sources clearly don't know what they're talking about
3. suicide rates are higher among transgender people because we're personally and systematically abused and *because we can't access the healthcare we need*
4. nobody is performing surgery on or providing HRT to children. the NHS minimum age for hormones to be prescribed is 16, and for most private providers is 18
5. yes you are transphobic and i'd suggest listening to actual transgender people instead of these weirdos who are obsessed with us and never seem to have their facts right

i'm not even going to read your sources because i don't really feel like putting myself through that today and some of them look dodgy as **** (i'm pretty sure sexchangeregret is run by a hate group, although i may be wrong) anyway how about asking oh i don't know, the NHS? https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Gender-dysphoria/
Transitioning should be discouraged, it is siding with a disorder. In extreme cases yes, but we should move away from trying to avoid basic biology instead of trying to justify a ‘gender’ change ( which doesn’t mean much anyway, mind you, im going to refrain from using its ‘new’ pronouns, in order to discourage this) Im basing some of my EPQ on the misconceptions of sex and gender, with my main point being that they are the same thing and that change is not possible
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PQ
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https://genderanalysis.net/2015/07/w...r-analysis-09/

"Out of 22 named individuals cited in these articles, five of them do not express regret about transitioning, and three are even appreciative of the experience."

And as for Paul McHugh's wsj article: https://genderanalysis.net/2015/09/p...r-analysis-10/

(and did you READ the conclusion of the pimozide case study? "Pharmacotherapy with pimozide should be considered in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria." - they're not proposing that it's a recommended standard treatment just because one patient with a learning disability AND gender dysphoria responded well to it in 1996 :rolleyes: )
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jkfdnas
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(Original post by PQ)
https://genderanalysis.net/2015/07/w...r-analysis-09/

"Out of 22 named individuals cited in these articles, five of them do not express regret about transitioning, and three are even appreciative of the experience."

And as for Paul McHugh's wsj article: https://genderanalysis.net/2015/09/p...r-analysis-10/

(and did you READ the conclusion of the pimozide case study? "Pharmacotherapy with pimozide should be considered in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria." - they're not proposing that it's a recommended standard treatment just because one patient with a learning disability AND gender dysphoria responded well to it in 1996 :rolleyes: )
yes i understand the pimozide study was an example (probably not the most reliable... anyway )but what i am saying is scientists should work towards a treatment for the disorder itself ie those affected do not feel they are a different gender to their biological sex instead of physically changing sex (not actually possible but you get the point)
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by jkfdnas)
yes i understand the pimozide study was an example (probably not the most reliable... anyway )but what i am saying is scientists should work towards a treatment for the disorder itself ie those affected do not feel they are a different gender to their biological sex instead of physically changing sex (not actually possible but you get the point)
They don't changr sex. The transgender people who choose to have surgery (not everyone does and not to the same extent) are aligning their bodies to the gender they believe they are. They aren't changing their sex.
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jkfdnas
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(Original post by Anonymous)
You must be unfamiliar with euthanasia. It does happen in hospitals upon the request of patient's families and legal euthanasia will be just that. Also, will you say doctors are wrong for respecting a DNR order?
of course i am aware of euthanasia, which can be acceptable if someone has a terminal illness and is in pain... what i mean in this example in cases other than this such as if someone is depressed (not a reason for legal euthanasia to be allowed)
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jkfdnas
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(Original post by Anonymous)
They don't changr sex. The transgender people who choose to have surgery (not everyone does and not to the same extent) are aligning their bodies to the gender they believe they are. They aren't changing their sex.
i know i did mention that. not the point of the post anyway
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X_exceed
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It's their decision and they have a right to make it. I'm only concerned about the surgery being too good that I might not be able to differentiate between them as a man or woman.
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PQ
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(Original post by jkfdnas)
yes i understand the pimozide study was an example (probably not the most reliable... anyway )but what i am saying is scientists should work towards a treatment for the disorder itself ie those affected do not feel they are a different gender to their biological sex instead of physically changing sex (not actually possible but you get the point)
Transitioning is an effective treatment.
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Kindred
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I will not pretend to know a lot about this topic. I think as somebody who has no experience with it (personally or in a professional nature) there is no way I could.
In my opinion though a physical sex change or any other physical procedures to aid somebody in identifying as a different sex or gender should be a last resort. That isnt because I i don't think their feelings are genuine or real or that i dont believe they should be able to identify as anything else, but rather because feelings (even very real ones) can change and physical procedures are a huge and very permanent step to take.
I do believe people with gender identity issues (not sure if that's the best term) should be taken seriously and not patronised, but I also believe less intensive things should be tried first, like therapy targeted at helping somebody feel comfortable as themselves (whatever they see that as) in their own body.

At some point though I believe you need to work out if that's a lost cause and if the risks of a physical procedure are worth it to prevent the mental anguish of being "in the wrong body".

That's very close to my standing on mental health too (although I don't believe gender and sex identity issues can quite be grouped there). I believe meds shouldn't just be thrown at anybody feeling a bit down or anxious and that therapeutic methods should be used where possible, but at some point meds do have a good use and are worth considering.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by jkfdnas)
of course i am aware of euthanasia, which can be acceptable if someone has a terminal illness and is in pain... what i mean in this example in cases other than this such as if someone is depressed (not a reason for legal euthanasia to be allowed)
A man recently was granted permission to be euthanised because he felt his life wasn't worth living due to disfigurements after an acid attack.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by jkfdnas)
i know i did mention that. not the point of the post anyway
Well if you're trying to make a point, make sure it's correct and clear to understand.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by PQ)
Transitioning is an effective treatment.
OP doesn't agree with it as an effective treatment because it doesn't suit their agenda.
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