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Identifying as a gender does not mean you are that gender.

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Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

Right, I'm about to head into some guitar rehearsals so can't deal with this in full but if you want to talk biology I suggest you do a bit of reading on the neurobiology of gender.

Dr of sciology

Reply 61

Axiomasher

Original post by nutz99

The problem is that these so called genders are as real as the man in the moon. Keep them in your head where they don't affect people who prefer to live in a reality.

But gender is real, identity and behaviour that is associated with or a response to biological sex is real, it's just that not everyone has the same association or response. What's so hard to understand? Sometimes a biological 'man' prefers to identify and live as a gender 'woman'.

Reply 62

Axiomasher

Original post by JackFu

Yes

Then that's a significant intellectual and observational failure on your part.

Reply 63

nutz99

Original post by Axiomasher

I've already said that its possible for a man to be stuck in a woman's body and vice versa. Anything outside of that is just twaddle. As soon as I hear the words "I identify as...." i think nutter!

You crushed your argument with the word "prefers". It's not like going shopping and picking a box of chocolates because they are the ones you "prefer".

Reply 64

Stiff Little Fingers

Original post by JackFu

Dr of sciology

Eh? I'm assuming you're attempting to say Dr of Sociology, which is still both wrong and irrelevant (the colleagues I've had have held doctorates in organic chemistry, biochemistry and analytical chemistry, and I'm commencing one in thermal chemistry in September; and neurobiology isn't sociology) but at least is a thing

Reply 65

Axiomasher

Original post by nutz99

...You crushed your argument with the word "prefers"...

But gender-based social and cultural activities are a 'preference' insofar as they are not biologically determined. Most biological men, for example, prefer to dress according to the expected convention even though they could wear frilly dresses and heels. Consider yourself 'crushed'.

Reply 66

username1799249

Original post by nutz99

I think you're a very confused person. Delusional is believing there are more than 2 real genders. Believing that you are something does not make it real!

How do you know you are a man? And btw - the fact that you have a knob isn't an indication. That just says you have a knob. How do you know you are a man by gender?

Reply 67

Axiomasher

Original post by nutz99

That makes no sense whatsoever. Consider yourself as being regarded as a bit of a dimwit...

From you Sir, that is a compliment. Assuming you are biologically male, do you sometimes wear trousers and sometimes dresses, sometimes flat shoes sometimes heels, sometimes wear lipstick sometimes not? Have a little think before you answer.

Reply 68

nutz99

Original post by Axiomasher

I think we can now take my inference to confirmation stage.

I have actually worn a dress and heels but that was with several other bearded blokes at a Christmas play. Not something I would ever do again!

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 69

Dr J

Original post by Axiomasher

Then that's a significant intellectual and observational failure on your part.

lol, a concept from social and political correctness does not suggest anything to me, whether it is my failure from observation isn't "significant" too.

Reply 70

Dr J

.calm down, it was a joke :smile:

no offence intended, I believe your argument has value but it just does not me

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

Shut up you bigot

Original post by Axiomasher

you appear to have some understanding that Gender is in fact made of of three things - even if you do struggle a bit with some of the nunance - but if you are cisgender or a totally uncracked egg that's entirely typical

1. Gender Identity, which the science increasingly suggests is innate and not easily, if at all, changed by Conversion Therapy and the like.

2. Gender Expression which is a conscious choice and can be played with as it;s mainly something which adults have a substantial amount of control over e.g ( a good proportion of those involved with drag are not trans for example, you will find Butch women of any / all /no sexuality )

3. Gender Roles - which is what society expects and projects onto you based on your expression - which the 'gender' that the 2nd wave Rad Fems want to 'abolish'

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 73

Stiff Little Fingers

Original post by InArduisFouette

you appear to have some understanding that Gender is in fact made of of three things - even if you do struggle a bit with some of the nunance - but if you are cisgender or a totally uncracked egg

that's entirely typical

1. Gender Identity, which the science increasingly suggests is innate and not easily, if at all, changed by Conversion Therapy and the like.

2. Gender Expression which is a conscious choice and can be played with as it;s mainly something which adults have a substantial amount of control over e.g ( a good proportion of those involved with drag are not trans for example, you will find Butch women of any / all /no sexuality )

3. Gender Roles - which is what society expects and projects onto you based on your expression - which the 'gender' that the 2nd wave Rad Fems want to 'abolish'

So, trans people work well on toast with siracha?

Reply 74

yudothis

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

Eh, identity and your sense of self is what you are. For a parallel - nationality, I was born in England to Scottish parents, if Scotland had gone independent I'd almost certainly by entitled to dual nationality: but in terms of who I am - I'm a Scot; and except when I'm bantering with English friends about how **** youse are at football, no-one bats an eyelid - my national identity is who I am, that's not controversial. Why should it be with gender, which could be considered as your neurological sex?

"neurological sex" - what utter nonsense. Sex is biological reality.

What you may think you feel like (almost always boiling down to stereotypes, e.g. how many transwomen talk about "I knew I was a woman when I put on my first heels" or "I always liked pink and doing girly things") is nothing but personality. "Gender (identity)" as a concept is bogus and is just used by self proclaimed progressives as a label and as a social weapon.

Reply 75

yudothis

Original post by xylas

Very true but I would add that you can identify as anything but that doesn't mean it's a gender. A gender is something that society has decided and as of now that means either male or female.

That is sex. Male/Female is sex. Gender is how you express yourself, which necessarily relies on stereotypes of femininity and masculinity.

Reply 76

yudothis

Original post by Axiomasher

Doesn't make him a woman (woman: human female).

Reply 77

xylas

Original post by yudothis

That is sex. Male/Female is sex. Gender is how you express yourself, which necessarily relies on stereotypes of femininity and masculinity.

Nope. I said a gender is something that society has decided. How do you figure that society decides sex?

And my gender is male, do you dispute that?

Reply 78

Stiff Little Fingers

Original post by yudothis

what utter nonsense.

Cheers for summing up your post in the opening line so I don't have to bother reading it :yy:

The brain being sexually morphic is well established and the body of evidence points towards brain structure and activity more akin to their experienced gender rather than what would be expected of their genitalia (because of course that's all people policing gender like yourself are interested in):

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/85/5/2034/2660626
https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/18/8/1900/285954
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0083947

I can link more... That you dislike facts doesn't make them false.