Should we bring back compulsory national service? Watch

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BritishJew
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#1
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I worry about the crisis of masculinity, and the general snowflakeness of a lot of youngsters these days.

Also, youth unemployment is a problem.

Should all young people complete three years of compulsory national service?

They would be able to do this national service between the age of 18 and 25 and it would be for three years in total.

People who refuse to serve would be sent to borstal like the old days. Employers would probably look down on them for not doing the service, in fact it would probably be as important as a degree.

This way people can either do a three year uni course and three years national service, with a gap year in between. If they wish to study to degree level also.

Or they could do a four year course / three years with placement, with three year national service.

And they could either do their degree and then do the service, or do the service and then do the degree.

Or they could just do vocational qualifications whilst in the army for those three years, and come out as qualified engineers, plumbers, carpenters etc.

Obviously there is no real war to send them all to at the moment, but they could learn some great skills doing invaluable things like building flood defences to protect our coastline, could be "on call" to patrol at times of red alert for national security, deal with flood situations delivering sandbags and rescuing old ladies and cats, a build stuff like wooden bridges for rights of way in the countryside.

They would be paid a basic salary during this three years, it would count as employment and give them a reference. Also, various qualifications could be gained.

The French have recently brought back national service with Macron saying that it would inspire patriotism and social cohesion.

I feel that it would help to bridge class divides, as posh kids and working class kids would be doing the same thing for three years, and also people of all sorts of races and genders together.

A recent YouGov poll found that a majority of British people support bringing back national service, although people aged 18-24 were mostly against. Probably because they are lazy and worry about not having access to their games console or their fifty eight layers of makeup.

So would you be for or against this, and why?
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JinxBinx
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It's pretty pointless. Whatever next war is fought will be done by people sitting in rooms with remote controls flying drones and guiding missiles or aircraft.
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X_exceed
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I disagree with compulsory national service, because while I do think that it is good for building discipline and "social cohesion" the three years I spend there will never be gained back. I'd rather use those three years to gain other experiences and I assume other people would rather use those three years to focus on their careers so that they are perhaps well established a lot earlier rather than later.
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BritishJew
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(Original post by X_exceed)
I disagree with compulsory national service, because while I do think that it is good for building discipline and "social cohesion" the three years I spend there will never be gained back. I'd rather use those three years to gain other experiences and I assume other people would rather use those three years to focus on their careers so that they are perhaps well established a lot earlier rather than later.

What if it was 18 months?

Also, do you not think you could benefit from the various qualifications that are offered by the army?

And isn't it all relative? Everybody would be starting their career three years later, so no disadvantage over the competition?

People can get paid an extra four figure sum on top of their salary for having a first aid certificate for example, all offices need a designated first aider on duty and many workplaces will pay say an extra £1500 a year to the first aid people who mostly just have to dish out a plaster now and again.

Also, if national service was a thing then anybody who didn't do it would overlooked when things like "team building" and "organisational skills" are a requirement, those things are taught in the army.

And surely the biggest benefit is giving people confidence to communicate. I think that is the biggest benefit to this latest generation. They bloody date on whatsapp and can't hold a conversation....

.... 18 months of being in fields having to talk to each other without a mobile phone in sight? It would be a revelation.

Not to mention all the people who will meet their life partner during their service instead of being stuck in their bedrooms talking to strangers on Reddit.
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X_exceed
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(Original post by BritishJew)
What if it was 18 months?

Also, do you not think you could benefit from the various qualifications that are offered by the army?

People can get paid an extra four figure sum on top of their salary for having a first aid certificate for example, all offices need a designated first aider on duty and many workplaces will pay say an extra £1500 a year to the first aid people who mostly just have to dish out a plaster now and again.

Also, if national service was a thing then anybody who didn't do it would overlooked when things like "team building" and "organisational skills" are a requirement, those things are taught in the army.

And surely the biggest benefit is giving people confidence to communicate. I think that is the biggest benefit to this latest generation. They bloody date on whatsapp and can't hold a conversation....

.... 18 months of being in fields having to talk to each other without a mobile phone in sight? It would be a revelation.
Yes, I would do it. For this time period (18 months) the pros outweigh the cons in my opinion.
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CoolCavy
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Right so with all the armed forces cuts how exactly is this going to be funded?
what about people who can't join for medical reasons (inb4 being called a snowflake)
3 years is far too long, people already spend too long at uni doing masters and whathave you, don't need to prolong entry into the working world any longer
18 months is too short for the army to reap the benefits of the investment they have put into recruits
and lastly why are you talking about the 'good old days' when unless you are an OAP you wont have experienced NS first hand
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BritishJew
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(Original post by X_exceed)
Yes, I would do it. For this time period (18 months) the pros outweigh the cons in my opinion.

That' what national service used to be in this country, 18 months.

If you think about it.... many people do 15 months as a gap year when you consider the September start dates at university.

So it is only 3 months longer than a gap year.
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Quady
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(Original post by BritishJew)
I worry about the crisis of masculinity, and the general snowflakeness of a lot of youngsters these days.

Also, youth unemployment is a problem.

Should all young people complete three years of compulsory national service?

They would be able to do this national service between the age of 18 and 25 and it would be for three years in total.

People who refuse to serve would be sent to borstal like the old days. Employers would probably look down on them for not doing the service, in fact it would probably be as important as a degree.

This way people can either do a three year uni course and three years national service, with a gap year in between. If they wish to study to degree level also.

Or they could do a four year course / three years with placement, with three year national service.

And they could either do their degree and then do the service, or do the service and then do the degree.

Or they could just do vocational qualifications whilst in the army for those three years, and come out as qualified engineers, plumbers, carpenters etc.

Obviously there is no real war to send them all to at the moment, but they could learn some great skills doing invaluable things like building flood defences to protect our coastline, could be "on call" to patrol at times of red alert for national security, deal with flood situations delivering sandbags and rescuing old ladies and cats, a build stuff like wooden bridges for rights of way in the countryside.

They would be paid a basic salary during this three years, it would count as employment and give them a reference. Also, various qualifications could be gained.

The French have recently brought back national service with Macron saying that it would inspire patriotism and social cohesion.

I feel that it would help to bridge class divides, as posh kids and working class kids would be doing the same thing for three years, and also people of all sorts of races and genders together.

A recent YouGov poll found that a majority of British people support bringing back national service, although people aged 18-24 were mostly against. Probably because they are lazy and worry about not having access to their games console or their fifty eight layers of makeup.

So would you be for or against this, and why?
Tell us more about your masculinity crisis.

How would it be helped by three years in Northern Ireland?
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Sinnoh
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What a waste of time that would be for me.
Also if everyone is doing it, everyone is getting the qualifications and nobody is advantaged as a result.
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BritishJew
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(Original post by Quady)
Tell us more about your masculinity crisis.

How would it be helped by three years in Northern Ireland?
The British Army has not been deployed to Northern Ireland since they withdrew in 2007 :rolleyes:

Asides from that, I don't see why I should answer your question when you haven't answered the one in the thread title.
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BritishJew
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(Original post by Sinnoh)
What a waste of time that would be for me.
Also if everyone is doing it, everyone is getting the qualifications and nobody is advantaged as a result.
Pretty sure the list of civilians qualifications that you can do in the army is pretty much the same length as the list of qualifications you can do outside of the army, only you get financial support if you are in and you don't if you are out.

They include anything from City and Guilds, The Chartered Management Institute, The Institute of Leadership and Management, and various masters degrees and even PHDs.

So no, people would not all get the same qualifications.
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Alexty28
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(Original post by BritishJew)
I worry about the crisis of masculinity, and the general snowflakeness of a lot of youngsters these days.

Also, youth unemployment is a problem.

Should all young people complete three years of compulsory national service?

They would be able to do this national service between the age of 18 and 25 and it would be for three years in total.

People who refuse to serve would be sent to borstal like the old days. Employers would probably look down on them for not doing the service, in fact it would probably be as important as a degree.

This way people can either do a three year uni course and three years national service, with a gap year in between. If they wish to study to degree level also.

Or they could do a four year course / three years with placement, with three year national service.

And they could either do their degree and then do the service, or do the service and then do the degree.

Or they could just do vocational qualifications whilst in the army for those three years, and come out as qualified engineers, plumbers, carpenters etc.

Obviously there is no real war to send them all to at the moment, but they could learn some great skills doing invaluable things like building flood defences to protect our coastline, could be "on call" to patrol at times of red alert for national security, deal with flood situations delivering sandbags and rescuing old ladies and cats, a build stuff like wooden bridges for rights of way in the countryside.

They would be paid a basic salary during this three years, it would count as employment and give them a reference. Also, various qualifications could be gained.

The French have recently brought back national service with Macron saying that it would inspire patriotism and social cohesion.

I feel that it would help to bridge class divides, as posh kids and working class kids would be doing the same thing for three years, and also people of all sorts of races and genders together.

A recent YouGov poll found that a majority of British people support bringing back national service, although people aged 18-24 were mostly against. Probably because they are lazy and worry about not having access to their games console or their fifty eight layers of makeup.

So would you be for or against this, and why?
18 year old slackers not in full time education or employment should be forced, other than that NAH.
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Marshmello's Dad
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Maybe something like a 6 week course should be compulsory for eligible teenage guys during their summer holidays after their first year of college so around age 17-18. But anything more would be a waste of time for most.

In 6 weeks most people would definitely learn self-discipline, brotherhood etc.

Make it something like Dofe
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BritishJew
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(Original post by Alexty28)
18 year old slackers not in full time education or employment should be forced, other than that NAH.
Would that not be encouraging people to load up on debt to do rubbish courses at rubbish uni's with their rubbish three D's at A level in order to avoid getting some exercise?

Also, don't many graduates just end up in bog standard £20k a year office jobs, making their degrees utterly pointless?

Perhaps those averagrads would benefit from getting their HGV license, then when they realise that they can't be a TV presenter with their media studies degree they can earn £35k a year doing something useful like driving stuff across the country instead of cold calling grannies.
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BritishJew
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(Original post by Marshmello's Dad)
Maybe something like a 6 week course should be compulsory for eligible teenage guys during their summer holidays after their first year of college so around age 17-18. But anything more would be a waste of time for most.

In 6 weeks most people would definitely learn self-discipline, brotherhood etc.

Make it something like Dofe

It would take them more than 6 weeks to get up to scratch physically.... yet alone learn how to fire a gun to the required standard and learn battle strategy.

They'd be better off in the army reserves.

What use are kids who did a 6 week summer course going to be if we actually ever get into a major war? That would be the point, wouldn't it, an entire nation trained for combat.

That's what France are doing..... you never know when Putin's going to fancy expanding into Europe.

We already know that if 1 million enemy combatants every fancies just walking into Europe they can.... Syrians showed them the way into Germany.
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Sinnoh
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(Original post by BritishJew)
Pretty sure the list of civilians qualifications that you can do in the army is pretty much the same length as the list of qualifications you can do outside of the army, only you get financial support if you are in and you don't if you are out.
Okay. So right now, with no conscription, you don't get much financial support because there isn't governmental funding. And with conscription, there would be, because the government would have to provide funding for such programmes as part of the compulsory service, which you say is a huge advantage. But then why not just fund those and save money on the actual military service?
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Drewski
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(Original post by BritishJew)
The British Army has not been deployed to Northern Ireland since they withdrew in 2007
You're talking about Op Banner. You ignore the fact that there are two manned British Army barracks in Northern Ireland.

(Original post by BritishJew)
Pretty sure the list of civilians qualifications that you can do in the army is pretty much the same length as the list of qualifications you can do outside of the army, only you get financial support if you are in and you don't if you are out.

They include anything from City and Guilds, The Chartered Management Institute, The Institute of Leadership and Management, and various masters degrees and even PHDs.

So no, people would not all get the same qualifications.
And how would people feel about being told which qualifications they're going to get?

How are we as a country going to support the sudden dramatic rise in defence spending? We can't afford to pay them, we can't afford to give them all uniform, we certainly can't accommodate them. So what do we do with them?
We don't even have enough people to train them.

And then, by the time the forces has spent ages getting them up too speed and being useful, they'll leave. Great.

What's in it for the Forces? They'll veto it instantly.
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Marshmello's Dad
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(Original post by BritishJew)
It would take them more than 6 weeks to get up to scratch physically.... yet alone learn how to fire a gun to the required standard and learn battle strategy.

They'd be better off in the army reserves.

What use are kids who did a 6 week summer course going to be if we actually ever get into a major war? That would be the point, wouldn't it, an entire nation trained for combat.

That's what France are doing..... you never know when Putin's going to fancy expanding into Europe.
I wasn't really thinking of much physical tasks or how to fire a gun. No teenager needs to learn something like that unless they actually want a career in the Army.

It should be more of a mental thing..you mentioned masculinity. That's what it should be focused on, being physically able to do things and fire a gun doesn't mean you're masculine. Things like having control of your emotions, having discipline, learning to be part of a brotherhood is what I would've said to be taught in 6 weeks.
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AperfectBalance
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Very good idea, we have a duty to our country, it would probably shape up some of the chavs and undesirables.

Nationalism/Patriotism needs to be instilled in our citizens and this is a good way to do it, I would prefer though if it was far less time, or something along the lines of an afterschool compulsory activity done on a few days a week with retreats occasionally, people with lower than x gcses have to do x amount of time in various areas they chose, police also should have the power to send youths to borstals.
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Drewski
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(Original post by AperfectBalance)
Very good idea, we have a duty to our country, it would probably shape up some of the chavs and undesirables.

Nationalism/Patriotism needs to be instilled in our citizens and this is a good way to do it, I would prefer though if it was far less time, or something along the lines of an afterschool compulsory activity done on a few days a week with retreats occasionally, people with lower than x gcses have to do x amount of time in various areas they chose, police also should have the power to send youths to borstals.
Nope. If this nonsense ever did come back, it would be that either everyone does it, or nobody does.
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