The Student Room Group

Manchester students deface poem by 'racist' Kipling.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-44884913


Students have defaced a mural featuring Rudyard Kipling's If in a stand against his "racist" work.
The author's 1895 poem was painted on a wall of Manchester University's newly renovated union building.
But student leaders erased the work, replacing it with a piece by Maya Angelou in a bid to reverse "black and brown voices" being written out of history.
The union has apologised for failing to consult students on its choice of poem.




So brave...

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Reply 1
I tend not to agree with many of the actions that some students engage in. However, context matters. Why shouldn't students be allowed to have a say in which poems are placed in their student union building? As the students' union itself has said, it should have consulted students. This isn't about "erasing history", it's about the choice of poem on a wall, at the end of the day.
Here's a depiction of Rudyard Kipling's 'The White Man's Burden' poem.



The guy was a racist colonialist who justified it with his white saviour complex, and the student union really ****ed up by selecting his work. At best we can hope it was due to ignorance rather than some... worse... motivation.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Occitanie
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-44884913


Students have defaced a mural featuring Rudyard Kipling's If in a stand against his "racist" work.
The author's 1895 poem was painted on a wall of Manchester University's newly renovated union building.
But student leaders erased the work, replacing it with a piece by Maya Angelou in a bid to reverse "black and brown voices" being written out of history.
The union has apologised for failing to consult students on its choice of poem.




So brave...


Those heroic students should all be given medals for standing up to that... err... poem, as well as for supporting all those poor, helpless black and brown people who aren't strong enough to make their own voices heard. Such sensitive, noble saviours!
Original post by AngeryPenguin
Here's a depiction of Rudyard Kipling's 'The White Man's Burden' poem.



The guy was a racist colonialist and the student union really ****ed up by selecting his work. At best we can hope it was due to ignorance rather than some... worse... motivation.


Ironically, that's exactly how many of these middle class, white, progressive students see themselves. Just replace "civilisation" with "equality" and swap out Uncle Sam with a Starbucks-sipping hipster.
I never cease to be amazed by the infantile university left.

On this matter though they need to make their minds up. You can't find an academic nowadays who believes that the author should be referred to with respect to a poem or novel. We are told the author is dead, there is nothing outside the text, Derrida, Barthes, ya de ya de ya.

Yet this poem is unacceptable just because it was written by an artist the left dislikes. No-one has ever argued that "If" itself is in any way objectionable as a work of art. As a text.

Make your minds up, you can't have it both ways.
Let's get this straight.

Whose property is this?

If it is the university's property, and those involved did not have appropriate authority to make this change, they should be treated in the exact same way as graffiti 'artists' and other vandals.
Reply 7
Original post by Dandaman1
Those heroic students should all be given medals for standing up to that... err... poem, as well as for supporting all those poor, helpless black and brown people who aren't strong enough to make their own voices heard. Such sensitive, noble saviours!


You do realize that three of the students mentioned in that article are from ethnic minority backgrounds, right?
Reply 8
Original post by Occitanie
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-44884913


Students have defaced a mural featuring Rudyard Kipling's If in a stand against his "racist" work.
The author's 1895 poem was painted on a wall of Manchester University's newly renovated union building.
But student leaders erased the work, replacing it with a piece by Maya Angelou in a bid to reverse "black and brown voices" being written out of history.
The union has apologised for failing to consult students on its choice of poem.




So brave...


"Riddi Viswanathan", "Fatima Abid", "Sara Khan", hmm such quintessentially English names.....

The staggering hypocrisy of these students to complain about black and brown voices being "written out of history" (and of course, they give no examples of where this has actually happened), only to then erase and slander one of the greatest cultural icons of our nation's history, a man who's deep and evocative work is loved and admired by many and in essence is part of the very fabric of the British (especially English) identity. Nowhere else on Earth would a people of obvious non-native descent get away with being so brazenly disrespectful to the culture of their respective host nation. Why do we keep putting up with this ****?
Original post by Wōden
"Riddi Viswanathan", "Fatima Abid", "Sara Khan", hmm such quintessentially English names.....

The staggering hypocrisy of these students to complain about black and brown voices being "written out of history" (and of course, they give no examples of where this has actually happened), only to then erase and slander one of the greatest cultural icons of our nation's history, a man who's deep and evocative work is loved and admired by many and in essence is part of the very fabric of the British (especially English) identity. Nowhere else on Earth would a people of obvious non-native descent get away with being so brazenly disrespectful to the culture of their respective host nation. Why do we keep putting up with this ****?


Whilst Kipling has some claim to being an author of the English, by no means is he an author of England.

Mowgli, Kim and even Peachy Carnehan are not men of England and whilst Stalky's & Co adventures might be set in England, we know that when their schooldays are over, they will travel the Great Trunk Road and edit the Allahabad Pioneer.
Original post by Dandaman1
Those heroic students should all be given medals for standing up to that... err... poem, as well as for supporting all those poor, helpless black and brown people who aren't strong enough to make their own voices heard. Such sensitive, noble saviours!


your sarcasm would work if the thing you're mocking actually happened...no one wants to give them medals or see them as brave, just triggered right wingers moaning as usual.
Original post by Occitanie
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-44884913


Students have defaced a mural featuring Rudyard Kipling's If in a stand against his "racist" work.
The author's 1895 poem was painted on a wall of Manchester University's newly renovated union building.
But student leaders erased the work, replacing it with a piece by Maya Angelou in a bid to reverse "black and brown voices" being written out of history.
The union has apologised for failing to consult students on its choice of poem.


Your idea of 'bravery' does not appear to corroborate the general consensus of the term. I use 'brave' in the context of those who fought for this country. Many of whom died. Rudling Kipling's only son signed up to fight in World War One much to the consternation of his father But he did it for King and country and the defence of everything we take for granted in today's society.

The sickening, puerile and irresponsible attitude of too many students in this country today is a source of some concern. It is ironic that many students and the 'yuuf' generally talk of 'respect'. There is one thing egregiously missing from too many students today: Respect for those who have laid the foundations of a country that you feel at liberty to abuse.


So brave...





So brave...
"you may write me down in history with your bitter, twisted lies, you may tread me in the very dirt but still like dust i'll rise"

How Ironic.

Absolutely fed up with people trying to destroy our own history and culture, this is just another small drop in the ocean of disgust. No sane country would let people do this.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Wōden
"Riddi Viswanathan", "Fatima Abid", "Sara Khan", hmm such quintessentially English names.....

The staggering hypocrisy of these students to complain about black and brown voices being "written out of history" (and of course, they give no examples of where this has actually happened), only to then erase and slander one of the greatest cultural icons of our nation's history, a man who's deep and evocative work is loved and admired by many and in essence is part of the very fabric of the British (especially English) identity. Nowhere else on Earth would a people of obvious non-native descent get away with being so brazenly disrespectful to the culture of their respective host nation. Why do we keep putting up with this ****?


one would think that Mr Kipling kept slaves in his Villiers Street home.

smh
Original post by AngeryPenguin
Here's a depiction of Rudyard Kipling's 'The White Man's Burden' poem.



The guy was a racist colonialist and the student union really ****ed up by selecting his work. At best we can hope it was due to ignorance rather than some... worse... motivation.


Lol at that rock with slavery written on it.
Kipling was a victim of his era and there is no need for that to shadow what a great writer he was. Just because something offends you doesn’t give you the right to censor it. The left has gone too far with its political correctness and have started to resemble the soviets. Cover up his poem is not going to reverse all the British imperialism that happened. Imagine if somebody defaced a nelson Mandela speech because he was a terrorist how would the left feel then?
Someone needs to give these kids a copy of Roland Barthes' 'The Author is Dead.' The author's life should have no bearing on their work. Rudyard Kipling's work is admired because of its lyrical quality and beauty. It is the same with Shakespeare, Dickens, Eliot and nearly every famous classic English writer.
I've been away from TheStudentRoom for a while but thought I'd come back in for a gander at any discussions on this topic. As reading about it today filled me with blind rage.

I'm less angry now that I see there are many young people that are opposed to the actions of the MUSU, and especially opposed to an almost systematic erasure of British history by some corners of academia.
Original post by AperfectBalance
"you may write me down in history with your bitter, twisted lies, you may tread me in the very dirt but still like dust i'll rise"

How Ironic.

Absolutely fed up with people trying to destroy our own history and culture, this is just another small drop in the ocean of disgust. No sane country would let people do this.


A bunch of students painting over some random Student Union building's mural is hardly indicative of people trying to destroy history and culture. Kipling's works are still going to continue to be read and sold. No need to be so melodramatic.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Lol at that rock with slavery written on it.


Why? Slavery was banned throughout the British Empire well before Kipling was born and the Royal Navy had a huge role in eliminating it. Kipling came into a world when it was still legal in parts of the US and Russia indeed. The "white man" was trampling on the rocks of slavery once Uncle Sam finally got with the programme.

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