dekg140
Badges: 9
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 2 years ago
#1
I'm doing some shadowing before starting F1, and I took a vbg from a patient by connecting a butterfly needle + tube to a syringe like in the image, getting blood and squirting it into the abg syringe. The F1 watching me said it's weird and he usually just takes blood with the abg needle itself or uses a syringe + needle directly attached. My problem with these methods is that you don't get the flashback that you do with a butterfly needle so you know you're in the vein.

I guesd there's 3 methods I can see here:

1) take blood from a vein with the abg needle/syringe itself

2) attach a needle to a syringe directly, take blood then transfer to abg syringe

3) (what i do) attach a syringe to a butterfly set, take blood then transfer to abg syringe.

What do you usually do/ what's considered 'normal'? Thanks!

Name:  6EEBEF75-F50F-41A8-BC64-9F041927F49A.jpg.jpeg
Views: 980
Size:  13.0 KB
0
reply
Beska
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#2
Report 2 years ago
#2
If it's a VBG alone, you can just connect the ABG syringe directly to the butterfly and take it that way. If you're taking lots of bloods including a VBG (or a VBG off the back of a venflon), I use a syringe (like your picture) and then decant the blood into the ABG syringe. There's no way to connect 2 syringes together so I usually use a clean needle to decant from one syringe to the other. I then just take the tops off the vacutainer bottles and squirt in some blood and then put the lid back on (pushing a needle into them is dangerous territory for a needlestick). I've never seen or heard of anybody using the ABG syringe + needle directly into a vein... that's a bit odd... it's like the classic needle and syringe for taking bloods which I've never seen anybody do, ever.

in reality it makes no difference, if your method works for you then go for it.

Edit: Actually no, I have used a needle and syringe once - somebody impossible to get blood off but only tiny tiny vessels, used an insulin size-ish needle and syringe for an INR....
0
reply
ecolier
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#3
Report 2 years ago
#3
(Original post by dekg140)
I'm doing some shadowing before starting F1, and I took a vbg from a patient by connecting a butterfly needle + tube to a syringe like in the image, getting blood and squirting it into the abg syringe. The F1 watching me said it's weird and he usually just takes blood with the abg needle itself or uses a syringe + needle directly attached. My problem with these methods is that you don't get the flashback that you do with a butterfly needle so you know you're in the vein.

I guesd there's 3 methods I can see here:

1) take blood from a vein with the abg needle/syringe itself

2) attach a needle to a syringe directly, take blood then transfer to abg syringe

3) (what i do) attach a syringe to a butterfly set, take blood then transfer to abg syringe.

What do you usually do/ what's considered 'normal'? Thanks!

Name:  6EEBEF75-F50F-41A8-BC64-9F041927F49A.jpg.jpeg
Views: 980
Size:  13.0 KB
I personally only take blood with needle and syringe :eek: so I have no such problem.

However I would have imagined that people would use the ABG needle to take the blood, then pull the plunger back.

Remember in an emergency setting, e.g. if you are doing a femoral stab I would use a needle and syringe anyway.

Disclaimer: I am old
0
reply
Helenia
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#4
Report 2 years ago
#4
(Original post by Beska)
If it's a VBG alone, you can just connect the ABG syringe directly to the butterfly and take it that way. If you're taking lots of bloods including a VBG (or a VBG off the back of a venflon), I use a syringe (like your picture) and then decant the blood into the ABG syringe. There's no way to connect 2 syringes together so I usually use a clean needle to decant from one syringe to the other. I then just take the tops off the vacutainer bottles and squirt in some blood and then put the lid back on (pushing a needle into them is dangerous territory for a needlestick). I've never seen or heard of anybody using the ABG syringe + needle directly into a vein... that's a bit odd... it's like the classic needle and syringe for taking bloods which I've never seen anybody do, ever.

in reality it makes no difference, if your method works for you then go for it.

Edit: Actually no, I have used a needle and syringe once - somebody impossible to get blood off but only tiny tiny vessels, used an insulin size-ish needle and syringe for an INR....
I do needle + syringe loads, I don't like the Vacutainer sampling system.

OP, any of the above are reasonable options. If you're ONLY taking a VBG then it's perfectly fine to just use the designated syringe, and you do still get flashback. If you're taking it with other samples then using a needle (butterfly or standard) and syringe or whatever collection system your trust uses is more sensible.
0
reply
Democracy
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#5
Report 2 years ago
#5
ABG syringe on the end of a butterfly needle :yy:
0
reply
Chief Wiggum
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#6
Report 2 years ago
#6
If I'm only doing a VBG, I put the VBG syringe onto a butterfly needle.

If I'm doing VBG+other bloods, I put a 10ml syringe onto a butterfly needle, then transfer the blood from the 10ml syringe into the various tubes.
0
reply
dekg140
Badges: 9
Rep:
?
#7
Report Thread starter 2 years ago
#7
(Original post by Beska)
If it's a VBG alone, you can just connect the ABG syringe directly to the butterfly and take it that way. If you're taking lots of bloods including a VBG (or a VBG off the back of a venflon), I use a syringe (like your picture) and then decant the blood into the ABG syringe. There's no way to connect 2 syringes together so I usually use a clean needle to decant from one syringe to the other. I then just take the tops off the vacutainer bottles and squirt in some blood and then put the lid back on (pushing a needle into them is dangerous territory for a needlestick). I've never seen or heard of anybody using the ABG syringe + needle directly into a vein... that's a bit odd... it's like the classic needle and syringe for taking bloods which I've never seen anybody do, ever.

in reality it makes no difference, if your method works for you then go for it.

Edit: Actually no, I have used a needle and syringe once - somebody impossible to get blood off but only tiny tiny vessels, used an insulin size-ish needle and syringe for an INR....
I had no idea I could connect the abg syringe directly to the butterfly. Mind blown

(Original post by Democracy)
ABG syringe on the end of a butterfly needle :yy:
(Original post by Chief Wiggum)
If I'm only doing a VBG, I put the VBG syringe onto a butterfly needle.

If I'm doing VBG+other bloods, I put a 10ml syringe onto a butterfly needle, then transfer the blood from the 10ml syringe into the various tubes.
Thanks so much guys!! Seems like what I'm doing makes sense then, I guess the F1 was just baffled by the fact that I had the tubing of the butterfly connected to the syringe, as he'd only ever attached a needle directly onto syringe and taken blood that way
0
reply
Chief Wiggum
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#8
Report 2 years ago
#8
(Original post by dekg140)





Thanks so much guys!! Seems like what I'm doing makes sense then, I guess the F1 was just baffled by the fact that I had the tubing of the butterfly connected to the syringe, as he'd only ever attached a needle directly onto syringe and taken blood that way
Huh, weird. Depends on hospitals I guess, but I've never seen anyone use straight needle+syringe. Everyone uses butterflies.
0
reply
Helenia
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#9
Report 2 years ago
#9
(Original post by Chief Wiggum)
Huh, weird. Depends on hospitals I guess, but I've never seen anyone use straight needle+syringe. Everyone uses butterflies.
Butterflies were in short supply in some places when I was more junior, so we were only allowed them for trickier patients. A straight needle is still good sometimes (and not just into the femoral!)
0
reply
Etomidate
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#10
Report 2 years ago
#10
I use whatever is left in the poorly stocked trolley, which can often only include an alcohol swab, a skin swab and an empty tourniquet box, but needs must.
2
reply
junior.doctor
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#11
Report 2 years ago
#11
(Original post by Etomidate)
I use whatever is left in the poorly stocked trolley, which can often only include an alcohol swab, a skin swab and an empty tourniquet box, but needs must.
Wow, you actually have empty boxes in your trolley? What sort of luxury establishment is this? I normally have to take a rusty screw out the side of the trolley...
0
reply
seaholme
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#12
Report 2 years ago
#12
I think I've used all of the above methods depending on if I am taking other bloods or not aaaand yep whatever the hell I can find in terms of equipment. There's only so many multiple locked store rooms with ranks of poorly filled unlabelled drawers on various wards I can bring myself to search through sometimes. I find the easiest way is actually butterfly plus syringe exactly like in your photo, for me anyway. A needle and syringe in a delicate situation with fragile old people veins, I often find the act of pulling back on the syringe can displace the needle fractionally but significantly enough to come out of the vein, whereas the tubing between the butterfly and the syringe stops that error from occurring. Also if I find something dodgy on the VBG I sometimes find I want to send off other bloods so a regular syringe > actual ABG syringe because any remaining blood isn't contaminated by heparin. But each to their own!
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Do you have the space and resources you need to succeed in home learning?

Yes I have everything I need (325)
56.13%
I don't have everything I need (254)
43.87%

Watched Threads

View All
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise