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Berkeley or UChicago

I am an international student from Hong Kong and likewise t othe OP in the thread "Cambridge v Berkeley" I have to choose between two top notch universities, in the form of UCBerkeley and UChicago. I applied to the liberal-arts college for both universities, so I suppose it is similar in this respect.

I understand that there are pros and cons in going to either university and hence the need to make the right choice. As of now, I am have a slight predisposition towards UChicago due to its famous economics department and its more personal atmosphere. But I also know that going to a public school in Berkeley is not as financially damaging (perhaps someone could shed some light on the cost advantages of going to Berkeley) and that Berkeley in itself excels in many areas.

Also, I intend to be majoring in Mathematics/Applied Mathematics or Economics (or as a double major) and not to proceed to graduate studies.

What do you guys think?

Reply 1

The Solitary Reaper

9

If it's for econ I'd say Chicago, otherwise I'd say Berkeley because:

a) Unless you fancy New York-lite with quite a few dangerous areas, Chicago isn't the greatest city in my opinion.

b) Conversely, at Berkeley you can go to San Francisco!

But then I place a lot of stock on my surroundings. I don't know enough about the individual universities to help further than this, sorry, but I think you should bear location in mind.

Reply 2

username149848

1

I have a very good opinion of Chicago, both academically and in general, and consider it to be among the elite schools of the US. I mentioned the size and focus of undergraduate studies at Berkeley in that other thread, I'll leave it at that, and say I think Chicago would have a better experience than Cal too, just like Cambridge would. Still Berkeley is a nice place, it has some spectacular views of the bay and with BART you can get into the city pretty easily. It's not a bad choice by any means, I just have trouble getting excited about it because it is local to me.

I was going to wonder out loud about the fees for out of state/international students at Berkeley versus tuition at Chicago, but I checked instead and they are $27,000 compared to $35,000. Cost of living will be higher in Berkeley, especially rent, but that shouldn't be enough to vault it over Chicago.

Also, if it matters, you might want to consider Berkeley's year round Mediterranean climate versus the frozen wasteland of the American Midwest during winter. They are two different extremes, and we have such nice winters here in California :cool:

.

One other thing. The UC system is ethnic blind (thank god, and thank Ward Connelly specifically), and as a result Berkeley is almost majority Asian-American/Asian ethnically, while Chicago is closer to the national demographic makeup of students in the US on the whole. It doesn't matter academically, but it is something worth considering in terms of the social aspect of things. I'm half Asian, my neighbor who goes to Berkeley is Chinese, and everyone who went to Berkeley from my high school was Asian as well. Going to a UC wasn't going to happen for me, it would have been my high school clique multiplied 500 times over :rolleyes:

. If you're fine with that great, if not really then it might be worth considering. Both Chicago and Berkeley on the whole should be equally kind to international students as well.

Reply 3

Gary_Neville

OP

Thanks for the input guys.

OH yea, ethnicity should also be an aspect to be considered. I suppose a high proportion of Asian population in Berkeley COULD suit me very well, easier to integrate and so on.. as I am after all from a local Chinese background (I am a Chinese myself).

Oh well, its quite a dilemma for me at the moment, and I've still got UPenn (Wharton) coming up, although I'm probably gonna be rejected.

Reply 4

devil09

7

Caspar David Friedrich

I think Chicago would have a better experience than Cal too

Oh, I don't know. It depends a great deal on what one is looking for. A student interested in colleges with popular athletics, for example, would be better served at Berkeley than Chicago, as would a student wanting a large LGBT scene. While I remain skeptical of Chicago's self-promoted "fun comes to die" reputation, like Harvard it did not fare at all well in the COFHE student satisfaction survey.

I mentioned the size and focus of undergraduate studies at Berkeley in that other thread, I'll leave it at that

Only 5% of Berkeley courses have 100+ students, and 14% have 50-100. Roughly 60% have fewer than 20 students. Chicago has small courses, certainly (83% have 25 or fewer students), but Berkeley is not as huge as many people make it out to be. One thing that does make a significant difference is the quality of teaching. Berkeley, like many universities (including my own), often uses grad students as TAs or graduate instructors, and their quality can vary. Likewise, Berkeley has always heavily recruited international faculty who may be excellent researchers but less than clear communicators in the classroom.

For course sizes, compare the schedule of courses.
Berkeley- http://schedule.berkeley.edu/
Chicago- http://timeschedules.uchicago.edu/

Gary_Neville

What do you guys think?

Personally, I am a huge fan of Chicago and would lean towards it, but I think you need to consider your options carefully. Chicago has a Common Core, for example, which may or may not appeal to you. It also puts more of an emphasis on residential life (e.g. Scav Hunt, Kuviasungnerk), whereas most Berkeley students move off campus after a couple years. Consider various factors like size, location, weather, extracurriculars, housing, study abroad, etc.

I am have a slight predisposition towards UChicago due to its famous economics department

Chicago has the best econ department in the nation (perhaps the world), but Berkeley is no slouch, and its math department is arguably better. Recruiting at both is similar, especially for those in Berkeley-Haas.

Reply 5

RyanT

15

I would kill to do economics at Chicago. I will leave it at that.

Reply 6

DrAtomic

1

I'm obviously biased as a UChicago student, but there are a lot of reasons why you might want to come here.

Doing a math/econ double major at UC is a great thing. We have top programs in both disciplines - our econ department is 1st in the country, and math is 3rd. Everything really is complimented by the Core, which provides a really good foundation for any major you might want to pursue.

Other things... The housing program is terrific, the neighborhood really is FINE and Chicago is a great city, the colleagues are excellent, the professors are brilliant...

Anyway, come for a visit if you can! You'll fall in love with the school.

Reply 7

Kane_Is_Able

1

I, to this day, still horribly regret turning down UChicago. (Was a matter of money) Their writing programs were just... gahhhh.

Anyway. While they are both academically sound, the atmosphere is completely different. Do you want a big, sprawling campus in warm weather? Or a gorgeous campus intertwined with a large metropolitan city?

For economics, I would say UChicago. The department is one of the finest, you'll have more work opportunity in Chicago, and.. I guess I'm biased too, but I just think it just narrowly edges itself over Berkeley.

Be prepared though, Chicago is COLDDDDDD.

Reply 8

FutureEconomist

I'm going to UChicago :P

Reply 9

Champagne Breakfast

16

Berkeley Economics is SOLID. Don't underestimate it. Chicago's is better, but honestly, unless you are planning on doing graduate studies, it will make very little difference to you as an undergrad. My impression of Chicago is it's a very academic-oriented place, perhaps more so than would be comfortable for some. That is something to look into and consider. Also Berkeley would be much more liberal-leaning in general, another thing to consider.

Reply 10

ILIGAN

9

Some comments here about Cal being overpopulated is just an exaggeration. I've been to Cal a lot of times, I even attended a class there with a friend of mine and I don't think it was anything near what some people here are saying. Cal is such a happy, lively and fun place to spend 4 years of college life. Its programs are great and its reputation is unquestionable. I've heard lots of horror stories about Chicago such as grade deflation, nasty students, grades whores and a pretty dull place for students.

I'd say go where you think you will enjoy the most. Berkeley and Chicago undergrad are pretty even. Cal does have more undergrad students, yes, but that's more beneficial for international students since you’re also there to mingle and meet as many friends as you can, aside from earning a degree from a reputable school.

Reply 11

DrAtomic

1

If you are looking for a place where you will be surrounded by people who are very academically-oriented, but also incredibly excited by learning, Chicago is a great place to go to school.

"Horror stories" that you hear about any school always have a grain of truth, but are always exaggerated and generally untrue. The U of C is known for its grade deflation, but it doesn't bother a lot of students here (frustrates some, certainly) because most students here come to school in order to learn not to get all A's all the time regardless of how much they've learned in a class. The slogan you always hear at U of C is "If I had wanted an A, I would have gone to Harvard!" Students here are NOT "grade whores" or "nasty" and it is definitely NOT a "dull place," especially for students!!

Students at UChicago love the school. Not every student loves every school, but it really seems like students here do love this school very much. We love the Core Curriculum, the housing system, the professors, the beautiful campus, the proximity to the city of Chicago, the arts and music that go on here, the great lectures, the traditions... everything is great! It isn't a school for everyone, but it you fit in here, you will like it!