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UCL vs. St Andrews

Both offers are for Psychology. I've firmed UCL and put St Andrews down for my insurance (UCL want best possible results this year; St Andrews has given me an unconditional). I'm not completely sure I shouldn't just go to St Andrews in the end either way. What would you do? Obviously I'll get the best results I can on my exams whatever I decide, but I'd really appreciate opinions.

Reply 1

username149848

Difficult, I had to choose between these two for my MA/M.Litt in history and it wasn't easy. No idea about psychology, but I picked UCL because it was the better course and because London offered more by an awful lot. I would have adored St Andrews, but I could see myself getting utterly lost and sidetracked in such a beautiful setting, whereas London will keep me on my toes and focused (and also has a lot to discover as well, for that matter). I realised that while I would have preferred living in St Andrews, it was better to study at UCL.

Reply 2

*River

They are TOTALLY different, UCL's in London, St Andrews is really, really small. If you like St Andrews the best out of your offers, then put it as your firm.

Reply 3

nadia712

Caspar David Friedrich

Hmm..You've made some good points I hadn't considered. It sounds like you were in the exact same state of mind as I am at the moment. Thanks for pointing all this out.

Edit: As far as Psychology goes, St Andrews is slightly better on the tables than UCL (both overall and subject-wise), but UCL ranks much, much higher on the worldwide league tables (9th in the world versus something like 76th), which I found a bit odd. I assume that UCL would be a better move career-wise, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

Reply 4

username149848

You are welcome :smile:

.

As for worldwide league tables, both of the main ones focus on issues like prestige, peer review, and research output and other factors which tend to give weight to larger and more established universities, such as UCL. St Andrews is an ancient university, but its being considered among the best in the UK is still pretty new, and they remain relatively small in size, and maybe has as much fame as accomplishment. For the national tables, they put too much emphasis on entry requirements, student satisfaction and other things which people do like to know about, but aren't really important to what university is all about. Both world and national tables should be taken as a vague guide, and not as cold hard fact, and probably with a margin of error of +/- 10 places at least. Both UCL and St Andrews are in the top 10 most of the time, that really makes them essentially the same as far as league tables are concerned. Really, the story with tables is not the result but the silly ways the makers of them came up to try and rank things which should not be ranked to that extent in the first place.

Reply 5

Sushie

I had the exact same dilemma as you, but I've decided to put UCL as my firm because I feel I will enjoy myself much more in London than in St Andrews. I'm not too keen on travelling to Dundee/Glasgow/Edinburgh whenever I want to do something exciting, although I think there are tons of stuff to do in St Andrews as well, and I think the student community is much more close-knit there. The rumoured cold weather also kind of put me off, though.

So now I'm completely stuck on whether I should put St Andrews or Bristol as my insurance. x)

And btw, I applied for an arts degree in St Andrews, does anyone know if it is possible to change this to science if I end up there?

Reply 6

ChemistBoy

Sushie

And btw, I applied for an arts degree in St Andrews, does anyone know if it is possible to change this to science if I end up there?

Yes, but you have to sort it out as soon as you get there.

Reply 7

nadia712

Sushie

I just read bits of your blog. WE HAVE TO BE FRIEEENDS! Haha. You seem really, scarily similar to me.

Reply 8

Sushie

ChemistBoy

Yes, but you have to sort it out as soon as you get there.

Goodie, then I don't have to worry about that.

nadia712

I just read bits of your blog. WE HAVE TO BE FRIEEENDS! Haha. You seem really, scarily similar to me.

Ohgosh, how fun! Do you have a blog?

Reply 9

Changing_the_world

I didn't apply to UCL, but have confirmed St. Andrews as my firm for Psychology, and had to choose between there and Surrey which was difficult, because the surrey course offered a years placement. So why did I choose St.a? Well because when I went there, not to sound to corny, I felt like that was where I belonged; it had the right atmosphere, that made me feel that there were no boundaries, and everything I did would be encouraged.

If you visited, didn't it seem just perfect being on the beach; with the whole feeling of history and respect surrounding you? Sorry if I seem a bit soppy; but it did feel totally romantic, and the course also seemed to be right for me. Although I'm certain to complete my degree in Psychology; I think it will be interesting to find out about other subjects; which also shows future employers the range of material you covered at degree level.

Sorry if I rambled, but hope it helped in any way...

Reply 10

username149848

Changing_the_world

Well because when I went there, not to sound to corny, I felt like that was where I belonged; it had the right atmosphere, that made me feel that there were no boundaries, and everything I did would be encouraged.

If you visited, didn't it seem just perfect being on the beach; with the whole feeling of history and respect surrounding you? Sorry if I seem a bit soppy; but it did feel totally romantic

Not corny at all, a lot of people have that experience. I last visited the town five years ago, but I still vividly remember walking along the beach and feeling the natural beauty of the place. There are few places like St Andrews anywhere, it really is something which cannot be duplicated.

Reply 11

nadia712

Sushie

Ohgosh, how fun! Do you have a blog?

I don't. But I do have facebook/myspace. Do you?

Reply 12

nadia712

Changing_the_world

If you visited, didn't it seem just perfect being on the beach; with the whole feeling of history and respect surrounding you? Sorry if I seem a bit soppy; but it did feel totally romantic, and the course also seemed to be right for me.

GAAAAH. I haven't been able to visit St Andrews (I live in Thailand at the moment, and I'm from the states), but I have been to Scotland and I absolutely adore it. I had a feeling that St Andrews would be like you describe, even though I haven't been there. It's really odd. At least I know if I don't get the grades for UCL I'll be insanely happy anyway? =P Gah, I don't know. This is SO hard.

Reply 13

Charlotte_Heart_NYC

Do you realise the difference in the degree structure between the two (I didn't at first). In St. As you study 3 subjects in the first two years (one must be the course you've applied for in the first place but the other 2 could be just about anything) and then pick any 1/2 of them to carry on to honours level (so theoretically you could end up dropping Psychology). I think this is an important consideration because in UCL you would pretty much JUST study psychology for 3yrs whereas the Scottish system offers more breadth - handy if you want to learn a language etc. St. Andrews is beautiful BUT a lot smaller than London. I know that post-degree I want to go and study law in London or a similar big city, so I decided that whilst I was a very poor student, I would go to a smaller place rather than living in London for 8yrs and get sick of it because I can't afford anything. It's such a personal decision though, I doubt any of us can give you much help! What does your gut instinct tell you?

Reply 14

nadia712

Charlotte_Heart_NYC

What does your gut instinct tell you?

My gut often tells me I'm more of a St Andrews person, tbh, but I'm worried I would really, seriously regret passing up UCL's offer. I do realize that the degree structure is totally different in Scotland, and that's a bit of a downside for me since it takes an extra year (I'm planning to go to PhD level, so I'd like to minimize time spent on my BSc). Another factor that influences this for me is the fact that I have a bit of a complicated relationship with a guy that goes to Imperial right now (together for two years, broke up very recently and hopefully temporarily due to hardships of distance). I know that I really shouldn't let that influence a decision that will affect me for 3-4 years, but I can't help but think that choosing St Andrews over UCL would really screw my personal life over in that respect. Advice? Haha.

Reply 15

ChemistBoy

nadia712

I do realize that the degree structure is totally different in Scotland, and that's a bit of a downside for me since it takes an extra year (I'm planning to go to PhD level, so I'd like to minimize time spent on my BSc).

A year is nothing, seriously, especially when you consider that you will still be much younger than many of the foreign PhD students you will be in the department with (for example I'm a postdoc and I'm younger than the 2nd year PhD student from italy who I work with). Please don't let that influence your decision if you are planning on futher study, it will make no difference at all.

Another factor that influences this for me is the fact that I have a bit of a complicated relationship with a guy that goes to Imperial right now (together for two years, broke up very recently and hopefully temporarily due to hardships of distance). I know that I really shouldn't let that influence a decision that will affect me for 3-4 years, but I can't help but think that choosing St Andrews over UCL would really screw my personal life over in that respect. Advice? Haha.

Again, and I'm sure you know this, please don't let this affect you in anyway (difficult , I know). I hate to sound cynical but relationships at your age, especially amongst university-goers, are more often than not transitory anyway.

Reply 16

Charlotte_Heart_NYC

nadia712

That's really weird because I just broke up with my boyfriend of 2yrs for similar reasons, he's in Birmingham and at the time of breaking up, I was headed for either London, Durham or Scotland (got rejected by the 1st two so definately Scotland now) I'd said all along that if it came down to KCL vs. St As then I would have gone for KCL every time, because of London's proximity to Birmingham, thank goodness in the end I didn't have to make a decision because I don't know what I would've done but I'm really glad I'm ending up in St. As - I think it's the best option for me.

Sorry that's rather rambley (sp?) and doesn't really offer any advice but personally, although at the time I was seriously contemplating withdrawing my application and going to Birmingham via Extra, I'm glad I haven't because I would have resented him for it forever.