One cannot be a conservative and poor. Watch

LiberOfLondon
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#61
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#61
My granny was born out in the sticks of rural Lancashire, with no running water and an outhouse. She has voted Conservative for 50 years. Under Conservative government, she has gone from that to owning a detached house and a large retirement portfolio, with the ability to go on a cruise regularly. Or shall I tell you about my Irish Catholic docker great-grandad, who also voted Conservative, fought in the Second World War and helped his daughter and grandaughter set up a business? The myth that the Tory Party do nothing for the working class can easily be disproven by looking at our family, a working-class success story.
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ReindeerM
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#62
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That's simply not true. Working class people can very well be conservatives due to socially conservative views.
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Burton Bridge
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#63
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(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
My granny was born out in the sticks of rural Lancashire, with no running water and an outhouse. She has voted Conservative for 50 years. Under Conservative government, she has gone from that to owning a detached house and a large retirement portfolio, with the ability to go on a cruise regularly. Or shall I tell you about my Irish Catholic docker great-grandad, who also voted Conservative, fought in the Second World War and helped his daughter and grandaughter set up a business? The myth that the Tory Party do nothing for the working class can easily be disproven by looking at our family, a working-class success story.
Even though I absolutely hate the Conservative party and their economic ideals being a traditional Socialist. I do understand that the intentional end result from both the true right/left wing are the same. It's just the of achieving method that is completely different
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Moose-er
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#64
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It sorta depends. Most working class people are socially conservative and fiscally flexible . Then again under Cameron the tories were socially liberal and fiscally neoliberal
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yb2002
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#65
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(Original post by Be Only You)
I do not think a reasonable person can have the views of a Conservative if they are also one who struggles financially (in a troublesome financial state).


*Incoming fake "I'm poor and a conservative" stories.
Dont wanna delve into the economics side of things, but I'm a tory because I beleive conservative economic policies work better for poor people without taking too much from other peoples pockets and hurting economic growth.
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Burton Bridge
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#66
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(Original post by yb2002)
Dont wanna delve into the economics side of things, but I'm a tory because I beleive conservative economic policies work better for poor people without taking too much from other peoples pockets and hurting economic growth.
Well it convenient you don't want to Delve into the economic side of your economic statement because in doing so will open up huge holes!
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Jesssmith5363
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#67
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#67
lol parent’s earn £9k in total and I’m a conservative. Would never vote for labour😂
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Alt Tankie
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#68
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(Original post by Jesssmith5363)
lol parent’s earn £9k in total and I’m a conservative. Would never vote for labour😂
Because of their economic policies or social policies?
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Burton Bridge
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#69
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(Original post by Jesssmith5363)
lol parent’s earn £9k in total and I’m a conservative. Would never vote for labour😂
Brilliant, what part of their polices appeal and make you're lives better than labour's?
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Alt Tankie
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#70
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(Original post by Be Only You)
I do not think a reasonable person can have the views of a Conservative if they are also one who struggles financially (in a troublesome financial state).
*Incoming fake "I'm poor and a conservative" stories.
I think a better way of putting it would be that one cannot be an economically liberal and poor,
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Alt Tankie
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#71
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Even though I absolutely hate the Conservative party and their economic ideals being a traditional Socialist. I do understand that the intentional end result from both the true right/left wing are the same. It's just the of achieving method that is completely different
Go on....


The conservatives never deliver on their popular social agenda - tough on crime, grammar schools, cutting immigration and defending traditional marriage and families

But they always deliver on their unpopular policies like cutting tax rates for billionaires and corporations, increasing funds to Israel etc

Meanwhile socialists always fail to deliver on their popular economic platform (national health care (US) nationalised transport/ utilities (UK) increase tax on the rich

But they always deliver on their unpopular social policies - state enforced social liberalism real doctrine, increase immigration, restricting free speech etc
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Life_Order
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#72
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I know several "conservatives" who vote conservative because they want less migrants (which is their absolute #1 issue, it is absolutely paramount), but they are for a higher minimum wage, much more unionisation, much lower if not even zero uni tuition fees, higher taxes for some people who earn extremely well (say £1m per year), free bussing and train transport for people over 60 and/or pensioners, for same-sex marriage and LGBT anti discrimination laws, anti-war (well on the Iraq war both parties agreed right..)

But they will always vote conservative because their #1 issue is migration - "I will vote for the party that lets in the least amount of migrants and deports the most illegals and criminals" (they actually mean Muslims, Arabs and Africans, they don't care if you're from Scandinavia). Some of those people are very poor economically.
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Burton Bridge
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#73
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(Original post by Life_Order)
I know several "conservatives" who vote conservative because they want less migrants (which is their absolute #1 issue, it is absolutely paramount), but they are for a higher minimum wage, much more unionisation, much lower if not even zero uni tuition fees, higher taxes for some people who earn extremely well (say £1m per year), free bussing and train transport for people over 60 and/or pensioners, for same-sex marriage and LGBT anti discrimination laws, anti-war (well on the Iraq war both parties agreed right..)

But they will always vote conservative because their #1 issue is migration - "I will vote for the party that lets in the least amount of migrants and deports the most illegals and criminals" (they actually mean Muslims, Arabs and Africans, they don't care if you're from Scandinavia). Some of those people are very poor economically.
But the Conservatives want immigration to exploit labour for businesses.

They consistantly say they will cut immigration to gain naive votes successfully but consistently do absolutely nothing to achieve this, and never get held to account for this!

How did the immigration cap go from 2010? For just one example
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 3 days ago
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Life_Order
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
But the Conservatives want immigration to exploit labour for businesses.

They consistantly say they will cut immigration to gain naive votes successfully but consistently do absolutely nothing to achieve this, and never get held to account for this!

How did the immigration cap go from 2010? For just one example
as a counter to that, they say labour would let in even more migrants and it's bad enough with the tories
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Burton Bridge
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#75
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(Original post by Alt Tankie)
Go on....


The conservatives never deliver on their popular social agenda - tough on crime, grammar schools, cutting immigration and defending traditional marriage and families

But they always deliver on their unpopular policies like cutting tax rates for billionaires and corporations, increasing funds to Israel etc

Meanwhile socialists always fail to deliver on their popular economic platform (national health care (US) nationalised transport/ utilities (UK) increase tax on the rich

But they always deliver on their unpopular social policies - state enforced social liberalism real doctrine, increase immigration, restricting free speech etc
First of all if you want me to defend the indefensible, by defending the sucess of Conservatives policies benifiting the majority of Society let alone the poor, you are asking the wrong man.

My point was some poor Conservatives voters hold the incorrect belief that lowering taxation on everybody put more money into people's pockets and helps the poorest of society by having more money available for example or for another example I could use the free market belief that privatisation lowest prices and helps everybody and makes everybody Richer. The end goal of the right wing and the left wing are both the same, everyone works and everyone gets richer.

Your point about socialists failing is imaccurate because we haven't had a socialist government in this country for over 40 years
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LiberOfLondon
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#76
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(Original post by Alt Tankie)
I think a better way of putting it would be that one cannot be an economically liberal and poor,
I refer to my nan's story upthread.
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Burton Bridge
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#77
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(Original post by Life_Order)
as a counter to that, they say labour would let in even more migrants and it's bad enough with the tories
But that's totally fallacious, the difference is Labour are not saying they will reduce immigration because at present it is not possible to do so.

So they are voting against polices Labour will introduce that will benefit them like the

'higher minimum wage, much more unionisation, much lower if not even zero uni tuition fees, higher taxes for some people who earn extremely well (say £1m per year), free bussing and train transport for people over 60 and/or pensioners, for same-sex marriage and LGBT anti discrimination laws'

To quote yourself. To actually vote for the Conservatives for a policy they know they won't introduce or have any inclination or ability of doing so!

Crazy thought process
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Life_Order
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#78
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
But that's totally fallacious, the difference is Labour are not saying they will reduce immigration because at present it is not possible to do so.

So they are voting against polices Labour will introduce that will benefit them like the

'higher minimum wage, much more unionisation, much lower if not even zero uni tuition fees, higher taxes for some people who earn extremely well (say £1m per year), free bussing and train transport for people over 60 and/or pensioners, for same-sex marriage and LGBT anti discrimination laws'

To quote yourself. To actually vote for the Conservatives for a policy they know they won't introduce or have any inclination or ability of doing so!

Crazy thought process
yep, migration is their #1 issue that trumps all other issues. Try persuading them with all the 100 issues where they more align with labour, they will keep going back to the migrant issue every single time.
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Burton Bridge
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#79
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(Original post by Life_Order)
yep, migration is their #1 issue that trumps all other issues. Try persuading them with all the 100 issues where they more align with labour, they will keep going back to the migrant issue every single time.
You know what mate, I actually know you are right because I have spoken to some people like you describe.

They cannot provide any logical evidence to support their claims and normally just result in name calling.
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yb2002
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#80
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Well it convenient you don't want to Delve into the economic side of your economic statement because in doing so will open up huge holes!
No it wont. There are 2 main ways of going about things.

Way 1: the socialist way. This is the corbynite labour way. Tax the rich 60-70 percent and give to the poor. The rich wont have the funds to start businesses and invest and consume goods and services therefore jobs are cut and the government are forced to provide more benefits. This cycle keeps continuing. You make the poor poorer as they are now dependent on the state who will be forced to keep reducing benefits as they run out of people to take money from

Way 2: Keep tax relatively low at 20-30 percent and use the money to fund the poor a little bit but just enough to live with dignity. This way they still have incentive enough to work. Business is booming and the rich are consuming goods and services which are taxed and support business. If business is supported in this way they will grow and employment will go up.
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