Hard Border on the island of Ireland Watch

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the bear
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Trinculo)
There's already a hard border - it's called the sea.
http://memes.ucoz.com/_nw/40/60710606.jpg
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Trinculo
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Doonesbury)
There was a "hard" border during the Troubles.
In the sense that there were vehicle check points and towers in some places. There wasn't a fence all around Northern Ireland.

The great irony of this is all is that quite apart from all this guff about the horrors of a "hard border" between the UK and Ireland, there are great big Berlin Wall style barriers all across NI keeping Catholics and Protestants apart.
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Doones
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Trinculo)
In the sense that there were vehicle check points and towers in some places. There wasn't a fence all around Northern Ireland.
I am aware. I lived there.

And hence "quote marks".
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Justmac
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Doonesbury)
How so? The PIRA is no longer a thing. HGVs smuggling stuff could well be.

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There always has been and will be smuggling across the border, it's inevitable. The IRA hasn't completely gone away, even though it is more of a criminal enterprise these days, but if there was a 'hard border' or military check points you could easily see its return to what it formerly was (No one wants that). Especially in some border towns like crossmaglen (south armagh) where there is still ill feeling and a presence of such a structure.
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NJA
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#25
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#25
The EU could choose not to uphold this rule as it has done at verious times previously.

(Look at Verhofstadt's reactions when these points are put to him!)
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L i b
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#26
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#26
No-one's going to be building a wall across Ireland. It's not realistically practical or desirable for either side.

I think we're getting a bit drawn into this negotiation. Ultimately, it's in both sides interests to talk up the problems that not coming to an agreement would have. Both are trying to secure their interests and both have to present a posture that shows them as willing to walk away. This was utterly predictable and entirely inevitable.

Even if there was a normal, straightforward international border between the two countries, it's not really a big thing unless you're manufacturing goods or moving livestock. There are plenty of examples of states with legally "hard" borders but borders that are also, in practice, very porous.
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Phil63
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Eilis_R)
Due to the growing disaster Brexit appears to be as reported by the British media a, "hard Brexit," appears very likely. This would result in a physical border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. The Tory government is propped up by the DUP, and their main objective presently is ensuring a hard border occurs. Residing in Northern Ireland as an Irish citizen it causes concern due to the monumental and negative impact this development would cause to everyday life.
What are your views on the matter, the impact it would have and how likely it appears to be?
I really think that the best long term solution for the people of Northern Ireland would be to leave the UK and join the republic. I hope a referendum occurs within my lifetime and the island of Ireland becomes united as a single independent country. The DUP do not do themselves any favours. They come across as a bunch of ignorant bigots and they are certainly not acting in the best interests of the people of Northern Ireland. To answer the question: Enforcing a physical border is impossible. People will just bypass it. Goods will be diverted to alternative routes and both economies will be the worse for it. The best policy that the EU could follow is one of laissez faire. Just let the people of Ireland get on with trading with each other across an open border. By all means let the Garda conduct searches for drugs, weapons and other illegal goods but normal ecomonic activity should be allowed to continue unheeded. So what if a few Euros in duties end up not being paid? A small price to pay for continuing peace in Ireland.
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ColinDent
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Phil63)
I really think that the best long term solution for the people of Northern Ireland would be to leave the UK and join the republic. I hope a referendum occurs within my lifetime and the island of Ireland becomes united as a single independent country. The DUP do not do themselves any favours. They come across as a bunch of ignorant bigots and they are certainly not acting in the best interests of the people of Northern Ireland. To answer the question: Enforcing a physical border is impossible. People will just bypass it. Goods will be diverted to alternative routes and both economies will be the worse for it. The best policy that the EU could follow is one of laissez faire. Just let the people of Ireland get on with trading with each other across an open border. By all means let the Garda conduct searches for drugs, weapons and other illegal goods but normal ecomonic activity should be allowed to continue unheeded. So what if a few Euros in duties end up not being paid? A small price to pay for continuing peace in Ireland.
You think that the Island of Ireland becoming a single state would result in continuing peace in Ireland? I very much doubt that it would, in fact I would go so far as to say that it would be a sure fire way of starting the troubles over again, much more so than this " hard border" that won't actually happen.
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L i b
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Phil63)
I really think that the best long term solution for the people of Northern Ireland would be to leave the UK and join the republic. I hope a referendum occurs within my lifetime and the island of Ireland becomes united as a single independent country. The DUP do not do themselves any favours. They come across as a bunch of ignorant bigots and they are certainly not acting in the best interests of the people of Northern Ireland.
The main opposition party in Northern Ireland literally waged a war against the people of Northern Ireland and murdered civilians in cold blood. I hardly think you can use the DUP as an argument against the union and for Irish reunification when you look at what their advocates are like.

To answer the question: Enforcing a physical border is impossible. People will just bypass it. Goods will be diverted to alternative routes
No-one's really suggesting a physical border under any circumstances. The vast majority of goods passing through borders are legitimate - they will use it - and some smuggling is always accounted in. Again, this isn't desirable, but it's perfectly normal.

The best policy that the EU could follow is one of laissez faire. Just let the people of Ireland get on with trading with each other across an open border. By all means let the Garda conduct searches for drugs, weapons and other illegal goods but normal ecomonic activity should be allowed to continue unheeded. So what if a few Euros in duties end up not being paid? A small price to pay for continuing peace in Ireland.
So essentially allow the UK full access to the European market without any of the requirements of a member? I'm sure that'll go down terrifically in Brussels. They might ostensibly care about Ireland, but ultimately they don't care that much.
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