Where Students who turn down Cambridge University end up Watch

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JohanGRK
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#141
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#141
(Original post by H7dh)
I mean, this has been very entertaining, and really only highlights the sort of unfounded arrogance some people are known to have who have been / go to some RG unis. Evidently I'm no match for those who have been to the likes of Durham etc (lol). But just on the BCL point, I did apply and got an offer, as well as the Harvard LLM. Chose Cam for various reasons. But obviously everyone from the likes of Durham are destined to get all of this anyway, so clearly I'm no shining star haha

But I agree, this is getting tiresome now and didn't even intend to get drawn into this debate, which is full of opinions and little fact. So I will leave you all to debate and, as I said, good luck!
I see that you're resorting to ad hom. You're also starting to sound a bit wounded and emotional - where has the pomposity gone?

My point was clear: an equivalently ranked student at Durham will get a lot more than their counterpart at Keele, and bringing yourself in as the one-in-a-million exception to the rule doesn't change that. Not everyone at Durham will reach the stars or get into Harvard Law, even though I'm willing to bet that the average Durham 2:1 will end up in a much more enviable place in life than the average Keele 2:1.

On the topic of facts: you've lost the 'fact' side from the assertion that high-flying professions are gradually filling with Keele-tier grads (which they're not, at least in the roles that make money).

But yes, thank you for proving that not everyone at Keele is an idiot and that at least one person (albeit a very exceptional person relative to their peers at Keele) has managed to achieve something of note. It says a lot about a university when your argument boils down to 'hey, we're not all thickos!". Good luck to you too.
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Princepieman
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#142
(Original post by JohanGRK)
Dunno if this was meant to be a response to me but hey in for a penny in for a pound

No one is suggesting a dichotomy of 'ambitious' vs 'unambitious'. If anything, the very point I'm trying to get across is that what is considered 'ambitious' will depend on the person being asked, which in turn means that 'ambition' can be put on a scale. OP might be ambitious from the perspective of the common man or woman, but they're not particularly special (or even ambitious) from the haughty, CV-obsessed, reputation-emphasising, money-chasing perspective of someone with a First from Oxbridge that's trying to get into Blackstone or something (sorry for only using legal examples, you can replace everything I type with examples from your high-flying career of choice).

The vast majority of people I've met at uni do go on to do something that makes them comfortably above average.

The people you're mentioning in your last post fall into three categories. The first is the 'unambitious-due-to-things-outside-their-control' category. You can give as many reasons for their lack of ambition as you like, they're still unambitious, and I wouldn't pay the UK's extortionate tuition fees to go study with them.

The second category are the 'ambitious-but-constrained' (single mothers etc), who genuinely can be considered to be the exception to the rule - we're all in agreement that they exist.

The third category, whose size relative to the other two is crucial, are the 'alright-but-thick' category of people, who had a relatively normal upbringing, and simply didn't do very well at school because (let's face it) they weren't driven enough. Some people in this category may go on to regret their pre-university choices and get their **** together; others may not. Either way, trying to paint the overwhelming majority of UK students (the sort of students that end up at Keele-like unis with BBB or below at A-level) as being poor unfortunate things instead of lazy and unexceptional things doesn't convince me. A few sob stories aren't the norm.
Agree but then again holding this point of view makes you some kind of elitist apparently..

Even if I've literally seen the differences first hand and have personally benefited more in just one year from simply changing universities myself to know how very real this stuff is.

I don't WANT to feel like there are legitimate differences in outcomes and quality on average - nobody does. It's just plain and simple reality however.

As mentioned no one is talking about the obviously motivated people, we're talking about the 90th to 15th percentile - i.e. the majority of people.

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H7dh
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#143
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#143
(Original post by JohanGRK)
I see that you're resorting to ad hom. You're also starting to sound a bit wounded and emotional - where has the pomposity gone?

My point was clear: an equivalently ranked student at Durham will get a lot more than their counterpart at Keele, and bringing yourself in as the one-in-a-million exception to the rule doesn't change that. Not everyone at Durham will reach the stars or get into Harvard Law, even though I'm willing to bet that the average Durham 2:1 will end up in a much more enviable place in life than the average Keele 2:1.

On the topic of facts: you've lost the 'fact' side from the assertion that high-flying professions are gradually filling with Keele-tier grads (which they're not, at least in the roles that make money).

But yes, thank you for proving that not everyone at Keele is an idiot and that at least one person (albeit a very exceptional person relative to their peers at Keele) has managed to achieve something of note. It says a lot about a university when your argument boils down to 'hey, we're not all thickos!". Good luck to you too.
The pomp was in the sarcasm dude. Anyone with such a supreme level of intellect, such as yourself (again, sarcasm there in case you were wondering..), would’ve understood that Cheerio
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JohanGRK
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#144
(Original post by H7dh)
The pomp was in the sarcasm dude. Anyone with such a supreme level of intellect, such as yourself (again, sarcasm there in case you were wondering..), would’ve understood that Cheerio
I can only marvel at the dissonance involved in someone who tries desperately to act superior, and yet spends his time trying to get us to pity his university and treat him as an ambitious human being too because come on guys there are ambitious people at Keele too ok we're not all thick

smh what has TSR come to
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e^iπ
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#145
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#145
(Original post by JohanGRK)
I can only marvel at the dissonance involved in someone who tries desperately to act superior, and yet spends his time trying to get us to pity his university and treat him as an ambitious human being too because come on guys there are ambitious people at Keele too ok we're not all thick

smh what has TSR come to
Well he/she was making the legitimate point that you can't paint everyone at lesser unis with the same brush.

Yes people who go to lesser unis probably didn't try hard at school but a significant portion might wise up while at these unis and decide to try harder and make something if themselves.

And I noticed a mention of Harvard law. I somehow doubt they would even register the prestige of Durham as to them it's non existent. In the UK Durham might be considered elite for some courses but for the likes of Harvard, they really would only care about oxbridge. So Keele and Durham are basically even in that respect.
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JohanGRK
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(Original post by e^iπ)
Well he/she was making the legitimate point that you can't paint everyone at lesser unis with the same brush.

Yes people who go to lesser unis probably didn't try hard at school but a significant portion might wise up while at these unis and decide to try harder and make something if themselves.

And I noticed a mention of Harvard law. I somehow doubt they would even register the prestige of Durham as to them it's non existent. In the UK Durham might be considered elite for some courses but for the likes of Harvard, they really would only care about oxbridge. So Keele and Durham are basically even in that respect.
Yes, you're right, OP proved that there is at least one person at Keele who isn't worthy of our contempt. I applaud them for being able to substantiate such an ambitious claim.

Your second and third paragraphs show that you haven't been keeping up with the discussion.
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e^iπ
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#147
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#147
(Original post by Princepieman)
Agree but then again holding this point of view makes you some kind of elitist apparently..

Even if I've literally seen the differences first hand and have personally benefited more in just one year from simply changing universities myself to know how very real this stuff is.

I don't WANT to feel like there are legitimate differences in outcomes and quality on average - nobody does. It's just plain and simple reality however.

As mentioned no one is talking about the obviously motivated people, we're talking about the 90th to 15th percentile - i.e. the majority of people.

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Out if curiosity from what universitywere you at originally before Exeter?
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Princepieman
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#148
(Original post by e^iπ)
Out if curiosity from what universitywere you at originally before Exeter?
Swansea

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e^iπ
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#149
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#149
(Original post by JohanGRK)
Yes, you're right, OP proved that there is at least one person at Keele who isn't worthy of our contempt. I applaud them for being able to substantiate such an ambitious claim.

Your second and third posts show that you haven't been reading the discussion so far.
I'm just saying information that there is nothing to feel superior about if you attend a universal that's ranked much higher than the likes of Keele. You may well be competing with one of it's graduating for your first job as university choice doesn't seem to matter in most careers.

I think the main problem with lesser unis is the environment created their (the people on average are less able) so an exceptionallly bright student for such a uni has no way to gauge his/her progress.

But the thing about Harvard not differentiating between Keele and Durham is true though.
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e^iπ
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(Original post by Princepieman)
Swansea

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So was the teaching there just crap? or did you feel as if the students there were not that smart?
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Princepieman
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(Original post by e^iπ)
So was the teaching there just crap? or did you feel as if the students there were not that smart?
lack of opportunities, lack of motivation and ambition in the majority of fellow students, lack of interest in careers, lack of collaboration with and presence of good employers, lack of strong (non-sport) societies, lack of challenge within the course, etc

On the other hand, it has a great community feel, fantastic location, great nightlife, a much easier style of and delivery of exams (spread out exams, challenge of the exams is less rigorous). Great research opportunities and opportunities to stay at Swansea for PhDs etc..

So, it was definitely not all "bad" just "bad" in the areas that I prioritized. Without a doubt I definitely grew socially as a person but probably not academically or career wise.
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JohanGRK
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#152
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#152
(Original post by e^iπ)
I'm just saying information that there is nothing to feel superior about if you attend a universal that's ranked much higher than the likes of Keele. You may well be competing with one of it's graduating for your first job as university choice doesn't seem to matter in most careers.

I think the main problem with lesser unis is the environment created their (the people on average are less able) so an exceptionallly bright student for such a uni has no way to gauge his/her progress.

But the thing about Harvard not differentiating between Keele and Durham is true though.
I'm pretty sure that I'm not competing with Keele grads for anything - thanks for your concern, though.

There's plenty to feel superior about - it just happens that people who speak from a position of weakness have never experienced it. To say that you're well qualified to suggest otherwise is rather comical. It reminds me of your Oxbridge degree disadvantage thread.

No one claimed that Harvard doesn't distinguish between the two. You have no reason to believe that it doesn't other than this intuition that Durham isn't known by your average man or woman outside the UK.
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e^iπ
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#153
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#153
(Original post by JohanGRK)
I'm pretty sure that I'm not competing with Keele grads for anything - thanks for your concern, though.

There's plenty to feel superior about - it just happens that people who speak from a position of weakness have never experienced it. To say that you're well qualified to suggest otherwise is rather comical. It reminds me of your Oxbridge degree disadvantage thread.

No one claimed that Harvard doesn't distinguish between the two. You have no reason to believe that it doesn't other than this intuition that Durham isn't known by your average man or woman outside the UK.
I said you could be competing with Keele grads or universities of a similar standing to Keele, Not that you are

Durham isn't exactly the top of the crop now is it? So therefore you have nothing to feel superior about. Its like feeling superior about having an above average IQ when comparing yourself to people with a below average IQ, the gap is there but its not as pronounced as you think.

From your tone, it seems that Durham fosters an atmosphere of arrogance and unfounded elitism. I suppose the Oxbridge-esque collegiate system at Durham might delude some into believing that Durham is something special... I assure you, it really isn't

The average person outside the UK has never heard of Durham, they only really know about Oxbridge just like the average person in the UK has never heard of Brown university but have heard of Harvard and Yale.
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JohanGRK
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#154
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#154
(Original post by e^iπ)
I said you could be competing with Keele grads or universities of a similar standing to Keele, Not that you are

Durham isn't exactly the top of the crop now is it? So therefore you have nothing to feel superior about. Its like feeling superior about having an above average IQ when comparing yourself to people with a below average IQ, the gap is there but its not as pronounced as you think.

From your tone, it seems that Durham fosters an atmosphere of arrogance and unfounded elitism. I suppose the Oxbridge-esque collegiate system at Durham might delude some into believing that Durham is something special... I assure you, it really isn't

The average person outside the UK has never heard of Durham, they only really know about Oxbridge just like the average person in the UK has never heard of Brown university but have heard of Harvard and Yale.

Your existence must be very sad indeed, cultivating a feeling of superiority over Keele is very non-productive you know
I don't go to Durham

There may or may not be a difference between the awareness of the average person and the awareness of faculty and recruiters at an institution that can afford to be super-picky about where it recruits from. That's the distinction I'm relying on when I'm saying that it's silly for you to assert that Harvard admissions faculty can't tell apart Durham and Keele because the average US citizen can't tell them apart.

Urgh, more insults - definitely the sign of someone who's confident about their argument. Yawn
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e^iπ
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#155
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#155
(Original post by JohanGRK)
I don't go to Durham

There may or may not be a difference between the awareness of the average person and the awareness of faculty and recruiters at an institution that can afford to be super-picky about where it recruits from. That's the distinction I'm relying on when I'm saying that it's silly for you to assert that Harvard admissions faculty can't tell apart Durham and Keele because the average US citizen can't tell them apart.

Urgh, more insults - definitely the sign of someone who's confident about their argument. Yawn
So where do you go to then? And what course?
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04MR17
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#156
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This thread has gone quite a way off topic from discussing people turning down Cambridge, through some Keele-bashing and onto discussion about the personal university history of several users now. I'd like to add my support to @auburnstar's point earlier that there are no "lesser" unis. There are courses that are taught much better at some unis than others. There are universities that serve your CV and employ-ability better than others. I will not pretend that Keele is comparatively high on that list compared to other universities mentioned in this thread; but there are no "lesser" or "greater" universities in a general sense and using these phrases is patronising to say the least. The people who attend or have graduated from universities who's courses aren't regarded as particularly academically brilliant are no "lesser" people.
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Doones
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And at this point I'm going to close the thread.
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