Is It racist to say you hate ISLAM?

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benevolence05
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#1
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#1
I get this all the time, was at Ricky Gervais stand up and he literally went to town on Jesus and Christianity but you don’t see any outrage or anyone calling him racist.
He said some obscene stuff and would have had his head cut off in Saudi for blasphemy if it was against Islam.
He literally said he hated Christianity, I mean that’s not new anyway.

Bring me to the same question, Islam and Christianity both originated from the Middle East but why is the criticism of Islam in particular met with the accusation of racism.
THOUGHTS???
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Bidachanee
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#2
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#2
Who’s Ricky gervais
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benevolence05
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#3
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#3
(Original post by Bidachanee)
Who’s Ricky gervais
Check Google matey
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Rory :)
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#4
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#4
Islam isn't a race. So it's not racist.
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Plantagenet Crown
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#5
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#5
Not at all. Islam is an ideology, not a race, ergo hating it isn't racist. It's perfectly fine to dislike ideologies, just as there's nothing wrong with despising Nazism, fascism, socialism etc..
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Sammyra
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#6
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#6
Probably because the people making jokes of Christianity are those who do not follow it and majority of people referring their selves or their ancestors from Christian religion hardly follow it hence they now see it as a joke.
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Joleee
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#7
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no no, it's not racist. that's why we use the word Islamophobia to describe the dislike and/or prejudice towards Islam.

Ricky Gervais knows his audience - that's why he can make those jokes and get away with it. if he said it in a room full of devote catholics or evangelicals, he would have no one laughing. but that's not his audience - his fans go to him expecting him to be controversial and/or offensive.

btw i'm christian and i was made fun of for being a christian for the first 13 years of my life. didn't really bother me that much and it doesn't bother me now. but i admit i have thick skin and i really don't care what people think of me. also i know my heart and my relationship with God and your opinion on it doesn't change anything.
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username1732491
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#8
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#8
Not at all. Though bashing the religion of a minority group in the UK which already gets more than its fair share of death threats and hate is a little insensitive. Christianity is probably the only religion in the UK which it is perfectly acceptable to give a good whalloping, since it is the majority religion in the country and the only one that has had a profound effect on our culture.
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benevolence05
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#9
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#9
(Original post by TimGB)
Not at all. Though bashing the religion of a minority group in the UK which already gets more than its fair share of death threats and hate is a little insensitive. Christianity is probably the only religion in the UK which it is perfectly acceptable to give a good whalloping, since it is the majority religion in the country and the only one that has had a profound effect on our culture.
I see what you mean there, quite sensible to offer minority groups some protection however in Muslim majority countries like Saudi you’ll be in trouble for walloping Islam however Islam is the majority there not minority, what’s your take on that using your own moral compass?
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benevolence05
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#10
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#10
(Original post by Sammyra)
Probably because the people making jokes of Christianity are those who do not follow it and majority of people referring their selves or their ancestors from Christian religion hardly follow it hence they now see it as a joke.
Sorry this doesn’t make any sense
ex Muslim comedian made jokes about Islam in Leeds and she was deemed racist and she lost some sponsors too.
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joannastayton
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#11
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#11
No.
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Nihilisticb*tch
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#12
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#12
It depends. It's okay to disagree with/hate a religion as in the religious ideology but it's not okay to say that you hate all of the members of that religion or to hate the race associated with that religion (most people associate Muslims with middle eastern people although not all middle eastern people are musljms). I think it's wrong to make fun of Islam purely because of the current political climate. There is a lot of hatred nowadays for Muslims due to terrorism. Although the comedian may not hate Muslims (and may just be poking fun in a harmless way), people who are far right or hate Muslims will latch onto this and it will encourage further hatred towards Muslims. It's all about context. Nowadays Christians don't experience a lot of discrimination so it's okay to make fun of them in a playful way as long as it doesn't accidentlu or deliberately incite hatred towards them. It's also often a different dynamic. Gervais is white and likely grew up either as a christian or surrounded by Christians so in a way it's like he s making fun of himself (even though he's not Christian). It's like black people can make fun of black people, (former) Christians can make fun of Christians and Muslims can make fun of Muslims.
Sorry that my comment is so long but this is how i see the issue. in a black and white sense it should be okay to make fun of Islam but in the current political climate I think it would be ill advised to do so.
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benevolence05
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#13
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#13
(Original post by Joleee)
no no, it's not racist. that's why we use the word Islamophobia to describe the dislike and/or prejudice towards Islam.

Ricky Gervais knows his audience - that's why he can make those jokes and get away with it. if he said it in a room full of devote catholics or evangelicals, he would have no one laughing. but that's not his audience - his fans go to him expecting him to be controversial and/or offensive.

btw i'm christian and i was made fun of for being a christian for the first 13 years of my life. didn't really bother me that much and it doesn't bother me now. but i admit i have thick skin and i really don't care what people think of me. also i know my heart and my relationship with God and your opinion on it doesn't change anything.
One of the most reasonable comment here mate.Thanks, I’m not a Christian but the idea of you not bothered by what people think or say about your religion is the perfect way to be, all of my Christian mates have this same mentality also my Muslim mates live like this as well but the majority of cases where there has been violent outrage because of what someone say is always with Muslims. I don’t see why anyone shouldn’t be allowed to critique my ideas or beliefs without the threat of violence
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Neverspark7776
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#14
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#14
The biggest critics are those far-left mob mentality twitter groups and protesters who can take a joke about their own religion but not aout someone else's which is kind of the reverse of what you'd expect to happen. At that point they blow up and cause tons of online abuse and boycotts, ruining lives and businesses. Also in the UK and US Islam is a minority compared to Christianity and most of their ideas lead to an idea of 'minority is always oppressed and the victim, majority is always the oppressor and the abuser' so they are fine with joking about Christianity but not ok with a joke about the minority which is seen by them as a case of the minority being oppressed by the majority, even if it isn't.
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benevolence05
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#15
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#15
(Original post by Nihilisticb*tch)
It depends. It's okay to disagree with/hate a religion as in the religious ideology but it's not okay to say that you hate all of the members of that religion or to hate the race associated with that religion (most people associate Muslims with middle eastern people although not all middle eastern people are musljms). I think it's wrong to make fun of Islam purely because of the current political climate. There is a lot of hatred nowadays for Muslims due to terrorism. Although the comedian may not hate Muslims (and may just be poking fun in a harmless way), people who are far right or hate Muslims will latch onto this and it will encourage further hatred towards Muslims. It's all about context. Nowadays Christians don't experience a lot of discrimination so it's okay to make fun of them in a playful way as long as it doesn't accidentlu or deliberately incite hatred towards them. It's also often a different dynamic. Gervais is white and likely grew up either as a christian or surrounded by Christians so in a way it's like he s making fun of himself (even though he's not Christian). It's like black people can make fun of black people, (former) Christians can make fun of Christians and Muslims can make fun of Muslims.
Sorry that my comment is so long but this is how i see the issue. in a black and white sense it should be okay to make fun of Islam but in the current political climate I think it would be ill advised to do so.
I was partly with you until you get to the last part, you should be able to criticise anything you want regardless of what political climate, people have been executed right from history because they criticise Islam primarily in the Middle East so the clause you inserted ‘political climate’ is ridiculous, quite simply close to Pinochet’s mentality.
i agree that society must give minority groups some protection because it’s beyond cruel to see Muslim women attacked on the street, was just in the news yesterday as it’s shocking.
overall tho, the protection given to Muslims here must all be replicated in Middle East to protect non Muslims
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Nihilisticb*tch
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#16
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#16
(Original post by benevolence05)
I was partly with you until you get to the last part, you should be able to criticise anything you want regardless of what political climate, people have been executed right from history because they criticise Islam primarily in the Middle East so the clause you inserted ‘political climate’ is ridiculous, quite simply close to Pinochet’s mentality.
i agree that society must give minority groups some protection because it’s beyond cruel to see Muslim women attacked on the street, was just in the news yesterday as it’s shocking.
overall tho, the protection given to Muslims here must all be replicated in Middle East to protect non Muslims
Yes you can criticise what you want, I am not saying that people shouldn't have no right to do that, all I am saying is that I would not advise it, in other words it is ill advised. I dislike Islam as I dislike all religions and I have no reservations about saying that. However someone who is speaking on a large stage could say that they hate Islam and the far left would brand them as a racist and the far right would see them as one of them when in fact the person speaking is neither. The far right will see this as validation for their more extreme views and these views will become more acceptable. In short what I'm saying is that if someone is going to criticise Islam they should make it clear that they do not hate Muslims and that many other religions (such as Christianity) are in many ways just as bad. In essence, it's okay to criticise Islam in the right way and the right context. If I were a comedian I would avoid jokes about Islam as, as I have said, these can be wrongly interpreted and can incite more hatred, not to mention they are entirely unnecessary.
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benevolence05
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#17
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#17
(Original post by Nihilisticb*tch)
Yes you can criticise what you want, I am not saying that people shouldn't have no right to do that, all I am saying is that I would not advise it, in other words it is ill advised. I dislike Islam as I dislike all religions and I have no reservations about saying that. However someone who is speaking on a large stage could say that they hate Islam and the far left would brand them as a racist and the far right would see them as one of them when in fact the person speaking is neither. The far right will see this as validation for their more extreme views and these views will become more acceptable. In short what I'm saying is that if someone is going to criticise Islam they should make it clear that they do not hate Muslims and that many other religions (such as Christianity) are in many ways just as bad. In essence, it's okay to criticise Islam in the right way and the right context. If I were a comedian I would avoid jokes about Islam as, as I have said, these can be wrongly interpreted and can incite more hatred, not to mention they are entirely unnecessary.
Makes more sense, Thanks for clarifying that
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Fullofsurprises
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#18
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#18
(Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
Not at all. Islam is an ideology, not a race, ergo hating it isn't racist. It's perfectly fine to dislike ideologies, just as there's nothing wrong with despising Nazism, fascism, socialism etc..
Whilst I agree that technically it can't be viewed as racism, it often serves as proxy racism - after all, there aren't all that many white Muslims living in Europe for example. The current wave of alt-right and hard right Islamophobia is clearly an attempt to legitimise a new racism and make it acceptable.

This isn't a simple problem, because there are arguments that Jews are not a 'race' as such (especially, Judaism is not a race) but people very much regard anti-Jewishness as racist.
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username1732491
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#19
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#19
(Original post by benevolence05)
I see what you mean there, quite sensible to offer minority groups some protection however in Muslim majority countries like Saudi you’ll be in trouble for walloping Islam however Islam is the majority there not minority, what’s your take on that using your own moral compass?
Indeed, in many Muslim majority countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan you’d struggle to give Islam the bashing it deserves without getting killed or imprisoned. Of course it is not at all immoral to bash Islam in majority Muslim countries, it is just the reality of the world at present. Such countries have not secularised enough yet.

There was a time in Britain when people were tortured for owning a Bible in English. Thankfully, we are well beyond that now. Hopefully one day we’ll see majority Muslim countries make a similar change for the better.
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benevolence05
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#20
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#20
(Original post by TimGB)
Indeed, in many Muslim majority countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan you’d struggle to give Islam the bashing it deserves without getting killed or imprisoned. Of course it is not at all immoral to bash Islam in majority Muslim countries, it is just the reality of the world at present. Such countries have not secularised enough yet.

There was a time in Britain when people were tortured for owning a Bible in English. Thankfully, we are well beyond that now. Hopefully one day we’ll see majority Muslim countries make a similar change for the better.
I see you danced around the question and instead said (Such countries have not secularised enough yet) what do you think? is it morally wrong for them to do that? Persecuting people for blasphemy, regardless whether they are secular or not, using your moral conscience is it right or wrong
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