The Student Room Group

Do you think the GCSE and A-level reforms were necessary?

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Reply 40
Original post by Muttley79
You need to explore those PISA results a bit more and understand them! We actually do better in problem solving for example! Are you aware that in other countries the schools compete to enter PISA? In this country the schools are picked at random and in one selective LA the lowest performing Secondary Modern was chosen.

Mock exams are polluted by 'idiots' releasing 'real papers' online and they are no way near as good as AS levels. I think you need to do a but more research in what you read in the paper - mental health has been adversely affected by the pressure some schools are exerting on students.


Where did you get such information? Every time I read an article about England's PISA results, I never receive such insight (and I've seen quite a few that critique PISA, but only really for the reliance on the dubious Rasch model it adopts, rather than the assessment procedures). Why the **** does England not cull the best of its secondary education talent like other countries (I've even seen China represent themselves as Shanghai before!)?

You give a good rebuttal to the mock exams argument, but can't teachers just substantially raise boundaries and mark extremely harshly to counter malpractice in the case of mock exams? Also, this 'mental health issues' business, I've only seen anecdotal evidence to support it. There is no empirical statistic concerning schools across the nation that display that mental health has been adversely affected. Most students are mature enough to not stress to such an extreme point.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Tolgarda
Where did you get such information? Every time I read an article about England's PISA results, I never receive such insight (and I've seen quite a few that critique PISA, but only really for the reliance on the dubious Rasch model it adopts, rather than the assessment procedures). Why the **** does England not cull the best of its secondary education talent like other countries (I've even seen China represent themselves as Shanghai before!)?

You give a good rebuttal to the mock exams argument, but can't teachers just substantially raise boundaries and mark extremely harshly to counter malpractice in the case of mock exams? Also, this 'mental health issues' business, I've only seen anecdotal evidence to support it. There is no empirical statistic concerning schools across the nation that display that mental health has been adversely affected. Most students are mature enough to not stress to such an extreme point.


Perhaps it's because I never take things on face value and actually go through the data? It's no secret to teachers ...

Mocks are a waste of time because I never know who has cheated ...

Where have you been that you aren't aware of mental health problems? It's nothing to do with maturity [that's somewhat insulting imho] in fact you really do need to find out how bad the picture is ...

I'm not going to continue this as you seem fixated on 'your' version of these changes.
No not necessary but I’m glad they did. I find the science much more interesting and I have gone from hating biology (learning simplified old GCSE spec in KS3) to it being one of my favourite subjects.
I’m not too fussed about it and the same proportion of people who used to get A/A*s are going to get 7/8/9s so it allows the top student to get higher and the less able students to get the same grades they would’ve got in A*-G so I don’t get what the big deal is tbh
Reply 43
Original post by Tolgarda
Most students are mature enough to not stress to such an extreme point.


This is a joke right?
Reply 44
Original post by Your Local Cat
This is a joke right?


Nope. I saw a great majority of my cohort actually relish these exams and even thrive on them. These 'mental health issues' were almost non-existent in my area because we all knew the bigger picture and that GCSEs weren't the end of the world, and I haven't seen empirical evidence across schools nationwide that shows that mental health problems are so prevalent. I have seen some anecdotal stores blown out of proportion though.

When I have seen stress, it's not because of the new GCSEs, but it's students' expectations, and their tendencies to compare themselves to others, along with parental expectations thrown in the mix at times. All of these factors existed under the old system too.
(edited 5 years ago)
Reply 45
Original post by Tolgarda
Nope. I saw a great majority of my cohort actually relish these exams and even thrive on them. These 'mental health issues' were almost non-existent in my area because we all knew the bigger picture and that GCSEs weren't the end of the world, and I haven't seen empirical evidence across schools nationwide that shows that mental health problems are so prevalent. I have seen some anecdotal stores blown out of proportion though.


This is disgusting. Anyway there's no point in me arguing with you about it as there's clearly nothing I can say that will change your views. Likewise there's nothing you can say that will change mine. I'd suggest researching more about the concept of mental health before making posts like

Original post by Tolgarda
Most students are mature enough to not stress to such an extreme point.


Nothing to do with maturity at all.
Reply 46
Original post by Your Local Cat
This is disgusting. Anyway there's no point in me arguing with you about it as there's clearly nothing I can say that will change your views. Likewise there's nothing you can say that will change mine. I'd suggest researching more about the concept of mental...


I don't see anything 'disgusting' that has been said here. I simply shared my experience, and explained why I didn't believe the GCSEs were fomenting as much stress as proclaimed by so many others. You can easily change my view if there's empirical evidence to show that the root cause of mental health issues throughout schools nationwide is the new tougher GCSEs rather than the academic expectations of students, the comparisons students draw between themselves and their peers regarding academic ability and parental expectation.

I perceive the ability to look at life with a wider lens than to stress about exams at 16 and act as if they're the end of the world as mature. I don't think having such extreme stress over these exams is very mature since there actually is a life after them, although some people stress as though their entire future hinges on the grades they get - which is ridiculously extreme.

But we'll leave it here then if our viewpoints can't be changed.
(edited 5 years ago)
Reply 47
Original post by Tolgarda
I don't see anything 'disgusting' that has been said here.

Belittling mental health is disgusting.

Original post by Tolgarda
I simply shared my experience, and explained why I didn't believe the GCSEs were fomenting as much stress as proclaimed by so many others.

What so just because the majority of the people at your school appear to take stress easily and don't appear to suffer from mental health issues implies the rest of the uk are like that too? Seriously, you have no idea what mental health could do to someone, so why just assume they're blowing it way out of proportion? I've never told my story and never see myself ever doing it because of people like you.

Original post by Tolgarda
You can easily change my view if there's empirical evidence to show that the root cause of mental health issues throughout schools nationwide is the new tougher GCSEs rather than the academic expectations of students, the comparisons students draw between themselves and their peers regarding academic ability and parental expectation.

Laymen's terms? Common sense?

Original post by Tolgarda
I perceive the ability to look at life with a wider lens than to stress about exams at 16 and act as if they're the end of the world as mature. I don't think having such extreme stress over these exams is very mature since there actually is a life after them, although some people stress as though their entire future hinges on the grades they get - which is ridiculously extreme.


I mean, I wouldn't blame them if it prevents them from going in their desired direction in life. Fortunately for me, I am going in my desired direction.

Original post by Tolgarda
But we'll leave it here then if our viewpoints can't be changed.

oof :pika:
(edited 5 years ago)
Reply 48
Original post by Your Local Cat
implies the rest of the uk are like that too?


The rest of the UK aren't completely stressed or completely relaxed. There are no statistics to support either generalisation. Mental health issues regarding the new GCSEs specifically seem anecdotal and only seem to represent the few personal experiences of some people rather than the general consensus of the UK surrounding the reformed qualifications.


Original post by Your Local Cat
Laymen's terms? Common sense?


Common sense would suggest that people get stressed because they think they're not going to achieve the grade that they expect or desire, or that they will feel inferior to their peers with their set of results, or that they have a fear of failing their parents or teachers with their grades. The new GCSEs themselves are not the cause. I believe it is the aforementioned factors that cause this stress, all of which were prevalent with the legacy GCSEs as well. The new system is also designed to award grades similarly to the old system, with the same proportion of students achieving a 7 and above as those achieving an A or above previously, and the same accounting for students achieving a 4/C and above. So despite the tougher exams, the grade boundaries will be adjusted to ensure no one is disadvantaged.

Original post by Your Local Cat
I mean, I wouldn't blame them if it prevents them from going in their desired direction in life.


So, will their life be over if they can't go to their desired destination in life? Learning to overcome failure is just one of life's lessons. They'll still be loved by their parents and live their lives even if their grades may not be adequate for their desired destination.

This is my final reply regardless of what happens next. I just wanted to generate one more response, but I'll leave it here. I didn't intend to come across as too insouciant, but rather have a general discussion, so apologies in that case.
(edited 5 years ago)
Reply 49
lmao we're talking about 2 different things. oops.

Original post by Tolgarda
So what? Will their life be over if they can't go to their desired destination in life?


That still shouldn't dismiss people from being stressed for that particular reason.
Original post by boggles333
If you are living in a dream world where the top 2% is no better than the top 30% then no it was not necessary. Tony Blair dumbed down education in order to prevent talent from thriving, thereby destroying White Western civilization. The other thing he did was to bring in 3 million migrants with a view to blending out indigenous White North Western Europeans.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/17/stress-and-serious-anxiety-how-the-new-gcse-is-affecting-mental-health
Original post by Tolgarda
Nope. I saw a great majority of my cohort actually relish these exams and even thrive on them. These 'mental health issues' were almost non-existent in my area because we all knew the bigger picture and that GCSEs weren't the end of the world, and I haven't seen empirical evidence across schools nationwide that shows that mental health problems are so prevalent. I have seen some anecdotal stores blown out of proportion though.

When I have seen stress, it's not because of the new GCSEs, but it's students' expectations, and their tendencies to compare themselves to others, along with parental expectations thrown in the mix at times. All of these factors existed under the old system too.

Look here news in mental health The guardian

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/17/stress-and-serious-anxiety-how-the-new-gcse-is-affecting-mental-health
Original post by Tolgarda
Nope. I saw a great majority of my cohort actually relish these exams and even thrive on them. These 'mental health issues' were almost non-existent in my area because we all knew the bigger picture and that GCSEs weren't the end of the world, and I haven't seen empirical evidence across schools nationwide that shows that mental health problems are so prevalent. I have seen some anecdotal stores blown out of proportion though.

When I have seen stress, it's not because of the new GCSEs, but it's students' expectations, and their tendencies to compare themselves to others, along with parental expectations thrown in the mix at times. All of these factors existed under the old system too.


The guardian on MENTAL HEALTH:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/17/stress-and-serious-anxiety-how-the-new-gcse-is-affecting-mental-health

Personally I think young people are more in danger,
Reply 53


Keep thinking that then. I'm not going to stop you, despite the fact that I do disagree with your sentiment.
Original post by Tolgarda
Keep thinking that then. I'm not going to stop you, despite the fact that I do disagree with your sentiment.

By the time your own kids have their exams you'll ask yourself why are they so much harder.? Look back and you'll see
Reply 55
Original post by MeMyselfand I
By the time your own kids have their exams you'll ask yourself why are they so much harder.? Look back and you'll see


No, I just had these new exams that seem to subject students to these new, terrible 'mental health issues', and I must say that they're honestly not that bad. When my kids take their exams, I'll wonder if they're able to hold a candle to China's.
Original post by Tolgarda
No, I just had these new exams that seem to subject students to these new, terrible 'mental health issues', and I must say that they're honestly not that bad. When my kids take their exams, I'll wonder if they're able to hold a candle to China's.

Can you read the guardian article. Thanks.

These rule makers didn't have to start school at early ages. When they were 3 years old they were st home playing, now st 3 they're already at nursery following rules already. ,
(edited 5 years ago)
Reply 57
Original post by MeMyselfand I
Can you read the guardian article. Thanks.


I have. It's quite an old one, and to me, it is quite irrelevant. I know the kind of mental health problems these reforms begot, but it still doesn't matter. We must just get on with life and sit these exams anyway. What will stress do? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Meanwhile, we'll probably still lag behind countries like Singapore, South Korea, and China in the PISA league tables while we still care about 'mental health'. The Far East would probably laugh at our education system, with the 16-year-old students over there curious as to whether GCSE papers are aimed at students three years younger than themselves.
Original post by Tolgarda
What's your take on the matter? Do you think the system required the revamp it currently has? Do you think that the reformed GCSEs and A-levels are any good?


Do you think it was necessary to abolish O levels and introduce the GCSE? The motivation behind this was to suppress talent, thereby destroying Western White civilization. The usual (((people))) were behind it.
Reply 59
Original post by peregrine888
Do you think it was necessary to abolish O levels and introduce the GCSE? The motivation behind this was to suppress talent, thereby destroying Western White civilization. The usual (((people))) were behind it.


How does this 'suppress talent'?

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