[Archi] UCL vs BATH vs CARDIFF...help :(

Okay well, i'm really in a quandary as to which to put as my firm and insurance so it'll be awesome to hear your opinions...

I've talked someone who is studying in first year at UCL and it didn't make...such a good story. It is ridiculously expensive for an international student like me and living in london plus buying materials is :s-smilie:

. Basically inaffordable for me. What was slightly bothering me was that there was an intake of 120 students last year and i thought there supposed to be a limit of 90? The studio is also quite bad (what i heard) and that you have to actually fight for a studio table and some people had to even share. All these sounds a bit...money laundering. Is it worth paying so much money to buy the Bartlett brand name?

I am on the otherhand very interested at Bath and Cardiff. I was reading all the threads on TSR and i was just wondering why no one ever picks Bath? At least the people who post here. It's hard for me to choose between the two cause they both have so much going for them. I like that Bath has the Erasmus program but it's a 4 yr undergrad program. I like getting the idea of getting both my BSc and MArch in cardiff for just 5yrs. Does cardiff allow archi students to take part in these student exchanges?

I want to go down the route of environmental architecture so any ideas which unis are more geared towards that? I'm also a rather creative person (i did get an on the spot offer from UCL and CJ was really interested in some of my work so i guess my portfolio was ok). Would a uni like Bath be okay for me? I've seen a portfolio of UCL work and it was interesting except it was so conceptual, it reminded me of my Art course so err...so do you actually learn how to build buildings there?

Even if you can only answer one question or give an opinion or share your experience...please...please do :smile:

Reply 1

Blue_Beard

Hi el_poyo

As I have not yet started my architecture course I am not sure how much help I can give you - but I do already have a BSc (not in architecture) from Cardiff University and had looked at and applied to Bath for my architectural studies.

Cardiff – I had a great time in Cardiff, the university was central and it has all the benefits of a capital city only on a smaller scale – the architectural course is well regarded and until recently was considered the top school of architecture in the UK in national league tables (many posters in this forum do not pay much regard to these league tables yet it must hold some water) but I am sure you already know this.
The university is established and there is always something to do in and around the city if you can escape from your studio :rolleyes:

.

Bath on the other hand I found was quite a distance from the city and although respected I really didn’t like the feel of the university. It probably didn’t help that the person showing us around seemed quite pretentious but ‘C'est la vie’.

Bath as a place seems nice but given the option I would have to choose Cardiff and visit Bath purely to take in some of its architecture as really its only a short drive down the M4 – lol

As for me I am off to Plymouth as there is a key interest in environmental issues and is a Centre for Earthen Architecture. I already have my grades AAB and a BSc so I have my unconditional place – bring on September :smile:

Good luck

Reply 2

somewiseguy

9

thats not true, i'm picking BATH :smile:

but yeah there aren't a lot of us on TSR. anyway, the bartlett-i can only speak about from a friend of mine who is in his 3rd yr at ucl. from what he told me, the stuff they do is very abstract and conceptual but is very intense, even by architecture's standards. he said that a lot of people drop out of the bartlett because of either the workload or the pretentiousness of the course (although he is enjoying it himself as he is a bit wacky). It is true that London is very expensive, but there are benefits from being in the big city in terms of architecturally (big firms etc). Bartlett does have a prestigious reputation though, and that will help a lot in terms of your careers.

Ok Bath, where I am headed. I liked both the city and the course, as bath seemed to have a great balance between vocational and design based concepts of architecture. the tutors seemed friendly at the open day and you can't really judge the uni by one of the students showing you around. Bath also has a decent reputation and the people i've talked to said they enjoyed the course and has a smaller intake (around 90 i think) which means less large group projects. plus they actually design buildings unlike ucl lol. (I don't know how important it is to you, but bath is also ranked highly in league tables for archi)

I don't know that much about cardiff as i didn't apply there ( tho i wish i did) but from what ive heard, it has a great reputation and a nice design based course.

In the end it's what you want from the course, if you want to learn howto become an architect, then i don't think UCL is very vocational. However, if you're interested in the arty abstract concepts etc then it could be great for you.

(actually, come bath we need more TSR members :smile:

)

Reply 3

RocketTown

go to sheffield, problem solved :biggrin:

on a more serious note, it just depends on what type of person you are. I could never live in london due to its size, expense, and the bartletts overly conceptual pretentiouness (in my eyes). I'm not a massively arty person, i love fine art and i'm good at it i reckon, but as far as conceptual art goes i'm just not a massive fan (i mean i would never want my whole degree revolves around it). Its just not who i am. So anyway, to choose the bartlett, you've got to feel comfortable there. Cardiff and Bath its pretty much the same deal, does it work with your kind of personality? There's no need going somewhere just because its got a flashy reputation if your not comfortable (don't get me wrong, names are important... everyone on here that applied to Cambridge will know that the reputation was a massive lure, whether they'll admit it or not) but sacrificing your enjoyment and 'comfortableness' just to get a name on your degree is ludicrous. The reason i picked Sheffield, is because i'm from a small town on the east coast of England, so i don't really want to make that step into a massive city while i'm still a student. Plus the course is broader than most which lets you zoom in on your specific interests, while at the same time letting you have a taste of everything else to develop other interests. thats definitely the kind of person i am.

So basically go to the one that fits best with you. i know thats pretty easy to say but just have a think. If i was you i'd pick Bath first, then Cardiff as insurance. thats just my opinion though :smile:

Reply 4

jrhartley

13

in answer to your question about erasmus in cardiff: yes, cardiff offers this. the school has a strong link with the school of architecture in Liechtenstein and offers a 4 or 5 month excahnge programme in second year to students who want to do that. or they will help you if you have another country you want to go to.

Reply 5

Quiller

10

I'd say for the purposes of your choice - discount the erasmus exchange at Cardiff. It's no way near thought through or integrated into the general course, making it almost pointless to do.

Reply 6

Hispanic-Impressions

11

jrhartley

in answer to your question about erasmus in cardiff: yes, cardiff offers this. the school has a strong link with the school of architecture in Liechtenstein and offers a 4 or 5 month excahnge programme in second year to students who want to do that. or they will help you if you have another country you want to go to.

Haha! I was there yesterday.. wouldn't stay there if you paid me though ;no;.

Reply 7

el_poyo

OP

Quiller

I'd say for the purposes of your choice - discount the erasmus exchange at Cardiff. It's no way near thought through or integrated into the general course, making it almost pointless to do.

Hispanic-Impressions

Haha! I was there yesterday.. wouldn't stay there if you paid me though ;no;.

lol, is it that bad? Darn, i would really like a school with a student exchange though. I guess even if i choose a different uni/country...it won't be integrated into my current course? :frown:

Reply 8

el_poyo

OP

thanks to everyone :biggrin:

btw.

Wait, Bath has an intake of 90? I'm guessing the the unis tend to take more students then on the intake number? So what is Cardiff's intake then?

Yea, i guess i should choose a course that best suits me but atm there isn't one uni that seems to be my bright shining light...i'm greedy i suppose :frown:

. I do like the idea of UCL's projects for years 2/3 but as ppl said, it's not very vocational and i'll still need to look for a (rather big) scholarship cause there is no way i'll be able to afford the fees as it is now. The scholarships over here are all for local unis.

Hmm...actually...what do you need to learn to become an architect? I mean do you need to know how to make a structurally sound building or is it ok just to create wacky/inspirational designs? What i want most from my course is to keep my competitive edge sharp and keen so that is my main draw from UCL.

Reply 9

Secret_F

2

for your last question, i suppose that it depends on you. there are many kinds of architect out there that specializes in many different things, and many of them design according to the best function to their ability and interest. again like many other answer, there is no right or wrong. one thing i've been told by my art teacher spring to my mind, is that the art these days are not original any more, most of them have to suit many other things to be able to sell or make money, in order to do that, there are two ways, either is to be different, or you have to be better then others skill wise.
but it's only a little generalization .. because in the real business world you have to encounter many other things to value your design etc ...
it's like it is very hard to define architect or architecture, so i only see it as a concept .. :biggrin:

Reply 10

AlexAAT

1

art teachers are just stung and failed artists

Reply 11

jrhartley

13

el_poyo

So what is Cardiff's intake then?

they aim for an intake of 70 or so. our year = 54, but we started around 70.

Reply 12

jrhartley

13

el_poyo

t
Hmm...actually...what do you need to learn to become an architect? I mean do you need to know how to make a structurally sound building or is it ok just to create wacky/inspirational designs?

it would be simpler for you to ask what you don't need to learn to become an architect. you need to have knowledge of

philosophy
history
sociology
politics
art / wider cultural issues
engineering
geography
economics
law

so quite a lot. and in answer to your question: is it ok just to create wacky / inspirational designs. No. this is not OK at all. We are in a post-post-modern era now, and you need to focus a lot of attention on how your building performs, not just what it looks like to the external viewer flying over in his private helicopter.

Reply 13

RocketTown

jrhartley

it would be simpler for you to ask what you don't need to learn to become an architect. you need to have knowledge of

philosophy
history
sociology
politics
art / wider cultural issues
engineering
geography
economics
law

so quite a lot. and in answer to your question: is it ok just to create wacky / inspirational designs. No. this is not OK at all. We are in a post-post-modern era now, and you need to focus a lot of attention on how your building performs, not just what it looks like to the external viewer flying over in his private helicopter.

This list is pretty heartwarming for me really, i was having doubts about the course because it seems just so much ART, and i know that architecture is fundamentally an artistic endeavour, but the thought of just doing wacky conceptual installation pieces was quite disheartening. (The pictures in most architecture school prospectuses make this seem like the norm? which was what was worrying me).

I want to learn things, draw things, think logically and analytically (philisophically and scientifically), write essays/papers, create well thought out things but not to the extent where thats all i'm doing. Am i picking the wrong course? Maybe someone who's already studying architecture can tell me, or someone studying it at sheffield? I think i'll do well, but at the same time if its just all model making and "art" i don't think i can hack it. I suppose this feeling stems with a massive hatred for art Alevel at the moment where its just plain boring. nothing about it excites me at the moment.

Someone please help?

P.S - sorry for jumping in this thread. people can PM me any help (or comforting words) if they don't want to block up this thread with unrelated stuff. thanks.

Reply 14

Secret_F

2

AlexAAT

art teachers are just stung and failed artists

well he only became an art teacher after he retired ..

but any way .. why do you think that art teachers are just stung and failed artist?

Reply 15

9mm

12

Sorry op.

^^^
lol as I see it, art teachers are simply artists (whether practicing artists, retired artists or failing artists) with an extra job i.e. teaching art, since they need to make a living. It is common for most artists do some extra job these days, as otherwise many of them just wouldn't be able to pay their mortgage. 3 out of the 4 art teachers at my school have their own exhibitions and do their own work when they're not in school teaching.

Reply 16

el_poyo

OP

hmm, you're right jrhartley. hmm, imo...if i look at the ucl course without the strong design/philosophical aspect of it...it seems a bit emptier compared to other uni courses. Probably need to look into the course more though.

Atm, i really can't get the feel of the cardiff course. Is it like the in between of the highly technical side of bath and the totally creative side of ucl? Though, i heard cardiff is considered a creative course?

Also, if it's not too shallow a question, which school has a better rep for architecture; bath of cardiff? Even if reputation is just an opinionated thing, i just wondered what other people think of the 2 unis. I remember early on i used to think cardiff was the best but for some reason i lost my desire. Maybe it because people kept saying "huh? why cardiff?" :frown:

Reply 17

9mm

12

I see you're an overseas student, but if you happen to be in england now or some time soon, perhaps you could arrange a private tour of some sort with each of the three unies? Since you are a prospective student, it should be possible and you may see things you didn't notice the first time visiting the places or it might just help re-assure you which of the three places is most suited for you? Perhaps you can get a closer inspection of the working environment, city, staff etc. :smile:

Reply 18

jrhartley

13

el_poyo

Atm, i really can't get the feel of the cardiff course. Is it like the in between of the highly technical side of bath and the totally creative side of ucl? Though, i heard cardiff is considered a creative course?

Well its very hard to give you a completely unbiased view as we can only study at one place, so its hard to really know what everywhere else is like. My impression about the Bartlett from their year end shows is that they are very strong on images, presentation, and concept. A lot of their work is visually very impressive, but there is little consideration (at least visible on the walls of the presentation) of matters such as disabled access, fire, construction, energy performance.

Cardiff is very heavily focused on 'making'. 'make' is the name of the WSA journal, and everything we design we are supposed to have a reasonably good idea (for our experience) of actually how the design would be constructed. So its not just about form manipulation and then handing it over to the engineers to work out how to actually build in. Cardiff believes very strongly that the making of the architecture contributes very much to the beauty - the spacing of columns, the detail of jointing, the width of the floorboards. Its easy to get carried away and design from 30,000 feet, but Cardiff puts a lot of stock in the experiential qualities of architecture. It appeals to me, its an 'unspectacular, understated architecture' - very akin to the sort of stuff you might see in Scandinavia or the Netherlands.

If you want to do blob / future systems style architecture, you will probably have a tough time at Cardiff as its just not their style. Its not saying blob=wrong, but its just not the ethos there, we don't have hugely powerful computers and laser cutters / cadcam milling machines that the Bartlett and AA do.

hope that gives you some idea of the nature of the course - if you want to see more, there's some work on wsa.fotopic.net to give you an idea of the briefs you will get.

Reply 19

somewiseguy

9

you want to know about reputation?? well it's hard to say really, looking at it in a very cold atmosphere. In terms of a Uni in general, bath has a better reputation and is ranked highly in league tables (if that means much to you). In terms of architecturally, then Cardiff and Bath both have a great reputation, be it for different reasons and both are ranked highly. I don't think it makes much of a difference at this level as theyre both well recognised, reputation only means something when you're comparing the bartlett to something like...huddersfield.

[Archi] UCL vs BATH vs CARDIFF...help :(

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