Why do people hate Communism so much? Watch

Davij038
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#41
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MarxistCommunist

Are you talking about communism as a pure economic system, which I don’t have mich problem with or are you talking about it including the social aspects of Marxism including people like Gramsci et al.

People don’t like Marxism as it is a deliberate attempt to destroy and undermine everything they held sacred and replace it with a materialistic individualism. Most Marxists have realised thst neoloberalism is a far better method of achieving their revolutionary goals than proletariat revolution.
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gjd800
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#42
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(Original post by MarxistCommunist)
Well, if you know about Marxist doctrine, and you read the books written by Marx and Engels, then you know that the Soviet Union, China, etc are nothing like what they wanted and what they advocated for.
Yes, just like voodoo works nothing like it does in the books, either.
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mojojojo101
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#43
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(Original post by Davij038)
MarxistCommunist

Are you talking about communism as a pure economic system, which I don’t have mich problem with or are you talking about it including the social aspects of Marxism including people like Gramsci et al.

People don’t like Marxism as it is a deliberate attempt to destroy and undermine everything they held sacred and replace it with a materialistic individualism. Most Marxists have realised thst neoloberalism is a far better method of achieving their revolutionary goals than proletariat revolution.
From a Marxist PoV, what your second paragraph says is that people hate Marxism is unpopulat because they hold sacred their own oppression. People are like turkeys not just voting for Christmas but extolling the virtues of an institution which leads to their own mass genocide.

If Marxists have in anyway embraced neo-liberalism they are not Marxist or any other subsect of Socialisylt.
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Davij038
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#44
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
From a Marxist PoV, what your second paragraph says is that people hate Marxism is unpopulat because they hold sacred their own oppression. People are like turkeys not just voting for Christmas but extolling the virtues of an institution which leads to their own mass genocide.

If Marxists have in anyway embraced neo-liberalism they are not Marxist or any other subsect of Socialisylt.
On your first point, not mass genocide but certainly placing greater restrictions on people’s absoloute liberty to do what ever they want

On your second point, no- Marxists see capitalism as a necessary evil on their journey to communism and they will defend it as they rightly see the only existing alternative to it now being the ‘far right’
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mojojojo101
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#45
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(Original post by Davij038)
On your first point, not mass genocide but certainly placing greater restrictions on people’s absoloute liberty to do what ever they want

On your second point, no- Marxists see capitalism as a necessary evil on their journey to communism and they will defend it as they rightly see the only existing alternative to it now being the ‘far right’
Genocide was probably too strong a word. The thing is Socialism sees the capitalist system as oppressive to the economic, social (you can expand from here depending on how deep.one dives) freedom of the vast, vast majority of people. Advocating for your own oppresion is always a wierd position to uphold and does make you an economic (note: I don't like this phrase) Uncle Tom.

At this point we get into a debate of Reformist/Revolutionary dichotomy. Personally I am a Revolutionary in that I don't think organic Socialism can come from the adaptation of the capitalist state and I believe I am supported by the historic evidence on this matter.

I know it is easy to lump all 'Socialists' or 'Marxists' together in broad, wide sweeping judgements about what they think but these are broad churches known for infighting about somewhat trivial matters. Don't pretend like you can say 'all x believes y' when it comes to specific outcomes or means.
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Davij038
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#46
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
Genocide was probably too strong a word. The thing is Socialism sees the capitalist system as oppressive to the economic, social (you can expand from here depending on how deep.one dives) freedom of the vast, vast majority of people. Advocating for your own oppresion is always a wierd position to uphold and does make you an economic (note: I don't like this phrase) Uncle Tom.

At this point we get into a debate of Reformist/Revolutionary dichotomy. Personally I am a Revolutionary in that I don't think organic Socialism can come from the adaptation of the capitalist state and I believe I am supported by the historic evidence on this matter.

I know it is easy to lump all 'Socialists' or 'Marxists' together in broad, wide sweeping judgements about what they think but these are broad churches known for infighting about somewhat trivial matters. Don't pretend like you can say 'all x believes y' when it comes to specific outcomes or means
1: liberty is highly overrated. Observe the high abortion, drug abuse, suicide, depression rates in the first world- especially amongst the most materially wealthy in the ‘free’ first world. Humans are always going to be slaves, and I think we are our own most vicious tyrants.

2: meh. That’s fine, just know that the system does not view you as a threat, but as a useful ally against those it does consider as threats such as the alt right. That doesn’t mean I think you should go and join Richard Spencer, but it should cause some reflection if the powerful and oppressive oligarchs are on the same side as you.

3: The ‘far right’ includes a diverse range of different ideologies including paleo libertarianism to national socialism, but most people have a relatively good understanding of what i mean when I say ‘far right’ . I think that I can do the same with ‘the left’ even though I agree that these political groupings are insufficient and problematic.
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ChaoticButterfly
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#47
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(Original post by Davij038)
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The neoliberal communists love corbyn.
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Davij038
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#48
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
The neoliberal communists love corbyn.
Ah, but they’re not attacking his economic policies are they? they’re attacking his foreign policy and his anti Semitism.

I wonder why? 😉
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Underscore__
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#49
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(Original post by MarxistCommunist)
Using an example like holding your breath underwater is as silly as a primary school teacher chastising a child for throwing a paper plane because their friend told them to do it because 'if your friend told you to jump off a cliff, would you do it?' or 'if your friend told you to put your hand in a fire, would you do it?' While holding your breath underwater for 30 minutes is a biological impossibility, unless you're a tortoise, or a mutant fish person, or something, Communism is a utopia that requires specific conditions for existance (ie; post-scarcity, mature Capitalism, etc), and it is very possible that, as in the Soviet Union, you (debatably) attempted Communism under conditions that doomed it to fail.
But you’re assuming that it’s within human nature to live in a world or even country that operates under the Marxist ideal. Every country that has ever referred to itself as communist has been an absolute, objective hell hole. Not only has every attempt at communism resulted in complete failure, it’s also resulted in terrible human rights abuses.
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Underscore__
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(Original post by Lechatn0ir)
Please tell me this example was a joke? How is the biological capability of an individual comparable to a whole dytopian system that requires many, many elements including those of human nature(which is unpredictable- itself depends on many factors) comparable?!

This is besides the point. I came here to answer your question as to why- not to justify it. Not prepared for someone to try and overturn my own beliefs.. especially with really irrelevant ‘proof by hypothetical analogy with 0 correlation to the topic’.
As I said to the other poster, you’re assuming that it’s within human nature to live within the ridiculous ideals of Marx
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Lechatn0ir
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(Original post by Underscore__)
As I said to the other poster, you’re assuming that it’s within human nature to live within the ridiculous ideals of Marx
Have you read my original response? I heavily implied (if not stated) that I do not believe in Marxism.
Not sure what you are contradicting here?
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Underscore__
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(Original post by Lechatn0ir)
Have you read my original response? I heavily implied (if not stated) that I do not believe in Marxism.
Not sure what you are contradicting here?
I didn’t say you believe in Marxism, I said you believe it’s within human nature to live under Marxism. Communism and brutal repression of citizens go hand in hand, if people wanted to live under communism that wouldn’t be the case
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ChaoticButterfly
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#53
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(Original post by Davij038)
Ah, but they’re not attacking his economic policies are they?
Yes they are
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Lechatn0ir
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#54
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(Original post by Underscore__)
I didn’t say you believe in Marxism, I said you believe it’s within human nature to live under Marxism. Communism and brutal repression of citizens go hand in hand, if people wanted to live under communism that wouldn’t be the case
This was my initial response:

(Original post by Lechatn0ir)
I will disregard my own opinions on the effectiveness of communism as an ideology and answer your question. People hate Communism because most of them are not aware of the distinction between an ideal communism approach and the brand of communism that is spread by Russia. This connotes dictatorship/ corruption/ economic stagnation. I don’t blame them considering that is the most developed type of Communism and the closest that Marxism was widespread
I just outlined the distinct difference between the theoretical ideal Marxist ideology and the one that people associate with Communism to answer OP’s question. There is literally NO hint of me saying ‘I believe it’s within human nature to live under Marxism’- in actual fact, I believe in the opposite.
Please enlighten me how you came to your conclusion and then decided to contradict a point with me that I didn’t raise in the first place??
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Davij038
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Yes they are
Not really, no way near as much as they criticise his foreign policy and anti Semitism
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Truths
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ignorance. They think communism is synonymous with dictatorships and totalitarianism.
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HighOnGoofballs
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Simply listing out things you don't like doesn't make liberty 'highly overrated' - and humans, by nature, will always prefer liberty to tyranny.
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Underscore__
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(Original post by Lechatn0ir)
I just outlined the distinct difference between the theoretical ideal Marxist ideology and the one that people associate with Communism to answer OP’s question. There is literally NO hint of me saying ‘I believe it’s within human nature to live under Marxism’- in actual fact, I believe in the opposite.
Please enlighten me how you came to your conclusion and then decided to contradict a point with me that I didn’t raise in the first place??
So you’re criticising my comparison because it’s, in your opinion, biologically impossible but then actually acknowledging that it wouldn’t be possible for people to live under Marxism?
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Lechatn0ir
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(Original post by Underscore__)
I didn’t say you believe in Marxism, I said you believe it’s within human nature to live under Marxism. Communism and brutal repression of citizens go hand in hand, if people wanted to live under communism that wouldn’t be the case
Sorry but the way you articulate your points and construct your reasoning is very disjointed. You also seem to be drawing completely wrong conclusions (whether it be due to too much reading between the lines as opposed to taking them at face value, as intended). All the points that I made where to address a specific question and never did I state that ‘it’s within human nature to live under Marxism’. The only statement you could’ve possibly used is when I deemed your comparison invalid due to it being a simple example that doesn’t account for a variety of factors. I also think the way you expressed your opinion (in an abstract, hypothetical example kind of way) made it very difficult to understand the point you were trying to make in the first place. This misunderstanding on both our parts resulted in a non sensical discussion in the so I suggest we just stop, especially considering there is no actual stated disagreement anyway
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Underscore__
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(Original post by Lechatn0ir)
Sorry but the way you articulate your points and construct your reasoning is very disjointed. You also seem to be drawing completely wrong conclusions (whether it be due to too much reading between the lines as opposed to taking them at face value, as intended). All the points that I made where to address a specific question and never did I state that ‘it’s within human nature to live under Marxism’. The only statement you could’ve possibly used is when I deemed your comparison invalid due to it being a simple example that doesn’t account for a variety of factors. I also think the way you expressed your opinion (in an abstract, hypothetical example kind of way) made it very difficult to understand the point you were trying to make in the first place. This misunderstanding on both our parts resulted in a non sensical discussion in the so I suggest we just stop, especially considering there is no actual stated disagreement anyway
I'm not sure how you've gotten so confused. You felt my example was a bad one because what I said is impossible but you subsequently agreed that living under communism also wasn't within the capabilities of humans generally speaking. How can my comparison be a bad one on the grounds of impossibility when you agree that communism is also impossible?

Your response comes across as though you don't want to have a debate but want to close with some semblance of being right. My argument has been clear and consistent throughout
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