Failing the final year of medical school and being expelled. Watch

Shivyd
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I am from London and decided to study medicine in Prague in Charles university at the second faculty of medicine. After ten years as a student, finally my studies are being terminated for not passing a final exam in surgery. i have completed all other study duties, however the department of surgery will not pass me with the last oral examination that i need to pass to complete my degree. The examiners have been asking nonsense questions to me in the exam that i was unable to answer and failing me accordingly.
What should i do now? i am now with any kind of degree or diplomas or work history.
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junior.doctor
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Sorry to hear that. Do you mean you’ve been a university student for 10 years? If you’ve not been awarded any degree or diploma during that time, then presumably you’ve had to repeat some things along the way? Have you been given a chance to repeat this failed exam?

This is the time when studying overseas is hard - you’re going to have to find out everything you can about your university’s progress appeals system (if any), and what your rights are at this stage. You should also try to find out whether, if you’re really not able to repeat, whether they would award you an alternative qualification to recognise the credit already obtained (in the UK it’s common to award a BSc in medical studies to students who leave in 4th or subsequent years). Obviously that wouldn’t allow you to practise medicine, but would at least be a university level qualification.

Another consideration, is whether any other Czech uni would allow you to transfer? Again this certainly wouldn’t be an option in the UK, but I don’t know if it’s possible there. Presumably you’ve invested time in learning the language and so it would make sense to try to continue in that country, but failing that, other European countries?

Best of luck, and be kind to yourself.
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gaab123
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there is no such a thing as nonsense questions when it comes to surgery... remember you'll be cutting people not f-ing play-doh.
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username4212292
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might be a naysayer here, but will brexit affect anything?
good luck though
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Shivyd
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(Original post by junior.doctor)
Sorry to hear that. Do you mean you’ve been a university student for 10 years? If you’ve not been awarded any degree or diploma during that time, then presumably you’ve had to repeat some things along the way? Have you been given a chance to repeat this failed exam?

This is the time when studying overseas is hard - you’re going to have to find out everything you can about your university’s progress appeals system (if any), and what your rights are at this stage. You should also try to find out whether, if you’re really not able to repeat, whether they would award you an alternative qualification to recognise the credit already obtained (in the UK it’s common to award a BSc in medical studies to students who leave in 4th or subsequent years). Obviously that wouldn’t allow you to practise medicine, but would at least be a university level qualification.

Another consideration, is whether any other Czech uni would allow you to transfer? Again this certainly wouldn’t be an option in the UK, but I don’t know if it’s possible there. Presumably you’ve invested time in learning the language and so it would make sense to try to continue in that country, but failing that, other European countries?

Best of luck, and be kind to yourself.
Thanks for answering. Yes, the medical program here his 6 years and i have repeated in the second year and in the final year. Here you do not get awarded anything along the way, only the MuDr (MD equivalent) after completing the sixth year. Yes i have repeated the failed exam twice as is the maximum allowance. There is no appeals process here and i am definately not able to repeat and they can award me no alternative qualifications. All the medical faculties have said no to a transfer in my case. I have asked many medical schools in eastern Europe and i cant find any that accepts transfers in the final year, only to lower years, which isn't an option for me financially.
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junior.doctor
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(Original post by Shivyd)
Thanks for answering. Yes, the medical program here his 6 years and i have repeated in the second year and in the final year. Here you do not get awarded anything along the way, only the MuDr (MD equivalent) after completing the sixth year. Yes i have repeated the failed exam twice as is the maximum allowance. There is no appeals process here and i am definately not able to repeat and they can award me no alternative qualifications. All the medical faculties have said no to a transfer in my case. I have asked many medical schools in eastern Europe and i cant find any that accepts transfers in the final year, only to lower years, which isn't an option for me financially.
Sounds like you’ve thoroughly researched your options and possibilities. I’m really sorry, that sucks. Presumably medicine is still want you really want to do? I guess that’s one side to things - have a long and careful soul search about what it is that you’ve want to do. You’ve invested a huge amount of time and money, and it takes guts and determination to repeat things (I’ve been there, it’s nothing to be ashamed of).

I think if you still want to medicine, it’s mainly going to be a case of researching ANY university that might take you on. This is entirely anecdotal / n=1, but many years ago, a colleague of mine at UK med school repeated first and second years, and then unfortunately failed final year and had to leave without a medical degree. I know she subsequently went on to do the St George’s programme based in Nicosia, Cyprus - I have an idea that because she was given a BSc from her first med school attempt that it might have been counted as a graduate entry. I gather it was also very expensive. And we lost touch and I’m not sure she ever finished it. But it appeared very multinational, so they might be open to considering credit from other institutions - possibly. So I guess exhausting every other option like that is the best bet if you’re convinced this is still what you’re wanting to do. Otherwise, you could consider UK allied health programmes? Physician assistant, possibly?
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nexttime
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All we can offer is that you need to call everyone and appeal and plead and bag to get something out of this. Blaming the examiners is not going to gain you any credit, unfortunately.

(Original post by gaab123)
there is no such a thing as nonsense questions when it comes to surgery... remember you'll be cutting people not f-ing play-doh.
Obviously there is. Don't know about this case specifically, but surgeons are human they don't know everything.

In fact, within the medical field they're kind of stereotyped as being dumb :p:
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Shivyd
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(Original post by junior.doctor)
Sounds like you’ve thoroughly researched your options and possibilities. I’m really sorry, that sucks. Presumably medicine is still want you really want to do? I guess that’s one side to things - have a long and careful soul search about what it is that you’ve want to do. You’ve invested a huge amount of time and money, and it takes guts and determination to repeat things (I’ve been there, it’s nothing to be ashamed of).

I think if you still want to medicine, it’s mainly going to be a case of researching ANY university that might take you on. This is entirely anecdotal / n=1, but many years ago, a colleague of mine at UK med school repeated first and second years, and then unfortunately failed final year and had to leave without a medical degree. I know she subsequently went on to do the St George’s programme based in Nicosia, Cyprus - I have an idea that because she was given a BSc from her first med school attempt that it might have been counted as a graduate entry. I gather it was also very expensive. And we lost touch and I’m not sure she ever finished it. But it appeared very multinational, so they might be open to considering credit from other institutions - possibly. So I guess exhausting every other option like that is the best bet if you’re convinced this is still what you’re wanting to do. Otherwise, you could consider UK allied health programmes? Physician assistant, possibly?
Yes well, sometimes i question if i have the of level motivation needed for this career considering the long hours and work load, but i want to do it because i do not know how better i can help people now with the knowledge and skills that i know have. I guess you are right about exhausting every option, even if there is only less than a percent chance of getting somewhere with it. Physician assistant degrees take 2-3 years and i cant finance it but maybe i can ask a university do it all in one year, i don't know. I just want to get that piece of paper and start working.
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Shivyd
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(Original post by nexttime)
All we can offer is that you need to call everyone and appeal and plead and bag to get something out of this. Blaming the examiners is not going to gain you any credit, unfortunately.



Obviously there is. Don't know about this case specifically, but surgeons are human they don't know everything.

In fact, within the medical field they're kind of stereotyped as being dumb :p:
Ok i will do that. Thank you
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junior.doctor
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(Original post by Shivyd)
Yes well, sometimes i question if i have the of level motivation needed for this career considering the long hours and work load, but i want to do it because i do not know how better i can help people now with the knowledge and skills that i know have. I guess you are right about exhausting every option, even if there is only less than a percent chance of getting somewhere with it. Physician assistant degrees take 2-3 years and i cant finance it but maybe i can ask a university do it all in one year, i don't know. I just want to get that piece of paper and start working.
So it sounds as though your options are:

- Considering an alternative career if that's what's right for you - either healthcare or otherwise, but healthcare likely to need further training = money.
- Medicine at an alternative European university, albeit starting earlier in the course and not in final year. I guess if you somehow took this route, you'd have to have a good long think about how this attempt would be different and what you'd do differently to maximise your chances of getting through.

None of the options are easy when any kind of further study will require funding. I'm sure you've thought of all funding options - family, loans etc, and I don't doubt after that many years of study you probably already have significant debt.

Would you consider taking a couple of years to work and save money before potentially returning to some kind of study?

As far as I know, Physician Associate courses are always a minimum of 2 years, as there will be a significant proportion of students who've not done any prior clinical work/study. I'm not sure that they'd let you skip any of it, and the course is already very intensive, but you have nothing to lose by asking. Think about other options too, such as being a paramedic.
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asif007
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I've heard of a group of British students at Palacky who were all deliberately failed on their exams because their university was sued by another student from the UK. AFAIK, all those students have since got help to transfer to medical schools all across Bulgaria. Granted, some of them failed in 1st year so they didn't lose a lot of time. But I am aware of some students who were in 3rd or 4th year in the Czech Republic but had to start from 2nd year in Bulgaria.

Medicine is full of politics wherever you go, and sometimes the outcomes of your exams are out of your hands. But as you can see, it is possible to move elsewhere and carry on down the same path. If you're still determined to do Medicine (I would recommend you don't settle for another profession given how many years of study you've already put in), then there is always another way. I'm afraid the only way to do it is to invest extra time and effort. If money is an issue for you, then maybe it is a good option for you to spend a few years working to earn towards that and continue your studies at a later date. However, bear in mind that the tuition fees and living costs in Bulgaria are much lower than the Czech Republic so you might be OK.
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Blue Peanut Medical Education
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I have come across medical students who have ‘failed’ the final exam being permitted to resit the final year again at a different medical school. I am aware that students went to Irish universities but I am not aware of which particular medical schools. This may be a place to start. I’m afraid I do not have any more information than this.

Blue Peanut Medical Education
https://www.bluepeanut.co.uk
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gamerhi
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(Original post by Shivyd)
Thanks for answering. Yes, the medical program here his 6 years and i have repeated in the second year and in the final year. Here you do not get awarded anything along the way, only the MuDr (MD equivalent) after completing the sixth year. Yes i have repeated the failed exam twice as is the maximum allowance. There is no appeals process here and i am definately not able to repeat and they can award me no alternative qualifications. All the medical faculties have said no to a transfer in my case. I have asked many medical schools in eastern Europe and i cant find any that accepts transfers in the final year, only to lower years, which isn't an option for me financially.
Hey - had a friend in the exact same scenario. He had to re apply and resit the entrance test. They then let him start from where he was expelled (he kept on failing module B till eventual expulsion). After repeating the entrance test they let him start again from where he left off.
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Anonymous #1
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Reapplying to the university should be an option. As long as you pay another year of the tuition fees european univerisities tend not to care (I am a graduate from the czech republic myself). Transfering to another university should definitely be possible as well. Call up Masaryk university , Palacky ..ect and ask about the legistics of transfering. You are given credits for each subject you pass for this very reason - as proof its completed - hence continuing from roughly where you left of should not be a problem.
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