State Schools Vs Grammar Schools

Watch
Axel__Amps
Badges: 9
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 2 years ago
#1
Name:  pse.jpg
Views: 919
Size:  11.7 KB
Following a recent BBC Documentary titled Grammar Schools:Who will get in?,the debate about grammar schools vs state schools have been widening and more people are coming to terms with which might be a better alternative when it comes to the education of their children..

Personally I strongly believe that a grammar school would beat a state school hands-down.

Grammar schools are much better that state schools and this is for a number of reasons.These are the three main reasons:Results,Government Funding and Work Ethic.

My first point is the Results.It is a well known fact that student in grammar schools often yield better results than students of a state School would.This very true as or instance in grammar schools such as Townley Grammar students are expected to get a 7 in their GCSE examinations in Year 11 (this is equivalent to an A) - which is an incredibly high mark to achieve especially at such a high-level examination. In contrast, a recent BBC documentary titled “Grammar Schools;Who Will Get In?” gave what is regarded as an incredibly shocking statistic:In Erit School (A state school) 23% of students were expected to achieve a grade 5 in their GCSE examinations.This is absolutely absurd an frankly embarrassing this means that just under a quarter of students are expected to get a C grade at their GCSE examinations and even pass the exam! A grammar school in this case is the much better institution for a person to send a child to for secondary education.Why?A GCSE is one of the most important grades that a person will receive in their life and on the basis of that affects the colleges they study at and then their universities choices and eventually their future jobs they study at...so all in all the individual is affected in the worst way possible.

No onto my second point:Government Funding.Unlike state schools grammar schools are not funded by the state and are sometimes fee paying schools . In Australia,the $50 billion government spend on schools in 2013-14 was split about 70:30 between states and territories (A$36 billion) and the Federal government ($14 billion),(meaning that besides the fees those grammar schools were receiving they were also getting an additional stream of funding which equates to a higher form of support available for learning)This therefore allows them much freedom into investing in a high- level syllabus and providing even more challenging content in their learning.For this reason,children who do attend a grammar schools produce children who are not only incredibly intelligent but are also critical and analytical and have gotten the chance to experience a more difficult curriculum.Fortunately this means that students are not bound to the very basic syllabus determined by their government and are given the express freedom to go all out in their education of their students- hence given them an advantage in their later life.

My third and final point is the work ethic that surrounds the pupils and the staff that either work at or attend a grammar schools.Many do agree that children who attend schools -who receive students through the form of a selective system-produce students who are somewhat competitive.This means that students are not only striving to meet the high standards as already laid out by their fellow students.Studies have also revealed that high performers and achievers in schools that might otherwise be bored or feel under-challenged in a classroom can become motivated, because they have a high chance of success.In addition children who go to grammar schools would have higher level of competition as the children are working at a higher standard.



Do you side with one or do you have a different view?
0
reply
Joinedup
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#2
Report 2 years ago
#2
(Original post by Axel__Amps)
Name:  pse.jpg
Views: 919
Size:  11.7 KB
Following a recent BBC Documentary titled Grammar Schools:Who will get in?,the debate about grammar schools vs state schools have been widening and more people are coming to terms with which might be a better alternative when it comes to the education of their children..

Personally I strongly believe that a grammar school would beat a state school hands-down.

Grammar schools are much better that state schools and this is for a number of reasons.These are the three main reasons:Results,Government Funding and Work Ethic.

My first point is the Results.It is a well known fact that student in grammar schools often yield better results than students of a state School would.This very true as or instance in grammar schools such as Townley Grammar students are expected to get a 7 in their GCSE examinations in Year 11 (this is equivalent to an A) - which is an incredibly high mark to achieve especially at such a high-level examination. In contrast, a recent BBC documentary titled “Grammar Schools;Who Will Get In?” gave what is regarded as an incredibly shocking statistic:In Erit School (A state school) 23% of students were expected to achieve a grade 5 in their GCSE examinations.This is absolutely absurd an frankly embarrassing this means that just under a quarter of students are expected to get a C grade at their GCSE examinations and even pass the exam! A grammar school in this case is the much better institution for a person to send a child to for secondary education.Why?A GCSE is one of the most important grades that a person will receive in their life and on the basis of that affects the colleges they study at and then their universities choices and eventually their future jobs they study at...so all in all the individual is affected in the worst way possible.

No onto my second point:Government Funding.Unlike state schools grammar schools are not funded by the state and are sometimes fee paying schools . In Australia,the $50 billion government spend on schools in 2013-14 was split about 70:30 between states and territories (A$36 billion) and the Federal government ($14 billion),(meaning that besides the fees those grammar schools were receiving they were also getting an additional stream of funding which equates to a higher form of support available for learning)This therefore allows them much freedom into investing in a high- level syllabus and providing even more challenging content in their learning.For this reason,children who do attend a grammar schools produce children who are not only incredibly intelligent but are also critical and analytical and have gotten the chance to experience a more difficult curriculum.Fortunately this means that students are not bound to the very basic syllabus determined by their government and are given the express freedom to go all out in their education of their students- hence given them an advantage in their later life.

My third and final point is the work ethic that surrounds the pupils and the staff that either work at or attend a grammar schools.Many do agree that children who attend schools -who receive students through the form of a selective system-produce students who are somewhat competitive.This means that students are not only striving to meet the high standards as already laid out by their fellow students.Studies have also revealed that high performers and achievers in schools that might otherwise be bored or feel under-challenged in a classroom can become motivated, because they have a high chance of success.In addition children who go to grammar schools would have higher level of competition as the children are working at a higher standard.



Do you side with one or do you have a different view?
The BBC documentary isn't available on the BBC website.

afaict it's attempting to show what's called 'the grammar system' in operation in one London borough... not what is typical of non selective schools.

If you have a 'grammar school system', you attempt to select the pupils who are going to get the best gcse grades using an 11+ test - and you send those pupils to a grammar school.

If the test is any good as a predictor you'd expect the pupils who weren't selected for the grammar to get worse gcse results because the grammar creamed off all the best pupils... So it's a strange thing to then turn around and kick the non selective school for getting worse gcse results - this is what the grammar system is designed to do. If you're a supporter of the 'grammar system' you're arguing in favour of having a lot more 'embarrasing' schools, a majority of schools in fact.

Didn't really follow your points about funding - the grammar school on the BBC is afaik a state funded school and I'm not familiar with australian funding arrangements - I can't process what a 70:30 split between states and territories means. In the UK state schools either get tax payer money from their local authority or tax payers money from central government... but it's all still tax payers money.
0
reply
squeakysquirrel
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#3
Report 2 years ago
#3
(Original post by Axel__Amps)
Name:  pse.jpg
Views: 919
Size:  11.7 KB
Following a recent BBC Documentary titled Grammar Schools:Who will get in?,the debate about grammar schools vs state schools have been widening and more people are coming to terms with which might be a better alternative when it comes to the education of their children..

Personally I strongly believe that a grammar school would beat a state school hands-down.

Grammar schools are much better that state schools and this is for a number of reasons.These are the three main reasons:Results,Government Funding and Work Ethic.

My first point is the Results.It is a well known fact that student in grammar schools often yield better results than students of a state School would.This very true as or instance in grammar schools such as Townley Grammar students are expected to get a 7 in their GCSE examinations in Year 11 (this is equivalent to an A) - which is an incredibly high mark to achieve especially at such a high-level examination. In contrast, a recent BBC documentary titled “Grammar Schools;Who Will Get In?” gave what is regarded as an incredibly shocking statistic:In Erit School (A state school) 23% of students were expected to achieve a grade 5 in their GCSE examinations.This is absolutely absurd an frankly embarrassing this means that just under a quarter of students are expected to get a C grade at their GCSE examinations and even pass the exam! A grammar school in this case is the much better institution for a person to send a child to for secondary education.Why?A GCSE is one of the most important grades that a person will receive in their life and on the basis of that affects the colleges they study at and then their universities choices and eventually their future jobs they study at...so all in all the individual is affected in the worst way possible.

No onto my second point:Government Funding.Unlike state schools grammar schools are not funded by the state and are sometimes fee paying schools . In Australia,the $50 billion government spend on schools in 2013-14 was split about 70:30 between states and territories (A$36 billion) and the Federal government ($14 billion),(meaning that besides the fees those grammar schools were receiving they were also getting an additional stream of funding which equates to a higher form of support available for learning)This therefore allows them much freedom into investing in a high- level syllabus and providing even more challenging content in their learning.For this reason,children who do attend a grammar schools produce children who are not only incredibly intelligent but are also critical and analytical and have gotten the chance to experience a more difficult curriculum.Fortunately this means that students are not bound to the very basic syllabus determined by their government and are given the express freedom to go all out in their education of their students- hence given them an advantage in their later life.

My third and final point is the work ethic that surrounds the pupils and the staff that either work at or attend a grammar schools.Many do agree that children who attend schools -who receive students through the form of a selective system-produce students who are somewhat competitive.This means that students are not only striving to meet the high standards as already laid out by their fellow students.Studies have also revealed that high performers and achievers in schools that might otherwise be bored or feel under-challenged in a classroom can become motivated, because they have a high chance of success.In addition children who go to grammar schools would have higher level of competition as the children are working at a higher standard.



Do you side with one or do you have a different view?
Grammar Schools ARE state schools
1
reply
HHJ11
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#4
Report 2 years ago
#4
Okay GCSEs are not a "high-level examination".

By the way, grammar schools are state schools; they are funded by the state.

The word you are looking for is comprehensive school.

The work ethic in grammar schools isn't necessarily high and it isn't necessarily low in comprehensive schools; it's just that grammar students pass an IQ test, which is not a measure of your full intelligence.
1
reply
jemima0103
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#5
Report 2 years ago
#5
My sister goes to a grammar school and the only difference there seems to be from comprehensive schools is that there is slightly more pressure on them to do well, based on the fact that many of them have chosen to be there. Not just that, but the tests to be accepted to a grammar school are more about logic than intelligence,
the grammar schools in the area are also struggling for money compared to non grammar schools .
0
reply
eleanoric
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#6
Report 2 years ago
#6
Whilst I'm a firm supporter of Grammar Schools (I go to one myself) I think it's important to mention that there are other factors in play rather than simply spending and results.

I think it's a very case by case argument as the academic pressure of a grammar school is definitely not beneficial for everyone. The constant strive to meet high standards across the board can result in a skewed perspective of ones own abilities and self worth, a global report by the OECD suggests students attending selective schools are more likely to be subject to high levels of anxiety and poor self-esteem.
Whilst a work ethic, is created it has to be asked, is it more a strive for success or a fear of failure?

Grammar schools do produce better results and are more academically focused but the expectation and pressure put on grammar school students based on a test they took aged 11 is a factor when looking between state and grammar school systems.

There is also an argument that grammar schools have a negative effect on social cohesion and looking at how selective and rare the grammar system is (rather than how it was originally designed) the modern grammar system actually could have a negative effect on social mobility, however I understand that may not impact the decision of state vs. grammar on a personal level.

Overall I do think Grammar schools are vitally important as they provide the opportunity to go into that kind of space for those who are suited towards it, the option for a pressured school being open should you want it, to go to a school pumping out high results if that is the best environment for you/your children. Grammar schools provide the opportunity for further/extension work and can stretch your learning. The academic environment can turn out pressuring or it can be extremely motivating, it depends on the person.
I personally like the grammar school environment, However for the reasons I've outlined I don't think it can be as simple as grammar schools winning hands down.
0
reply
The.Arrow
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#7
Report 2 years ago
#7
Grammar school students are at an advantage, state school students are doomed besides a lucky few.
0
reply
BZBroke
Badges: 5
Rep:
?
#8
Report 2 years ago
#8
I like the idea of selective schools, I have attended both and grammar schools by far have been way more suited to me. I actually have a video of me talking about my experiences have a watch and give me some feedback, would love to see what you think.
0
reply
anon318
Badges: 9
Rep:
?
#9
Report 2 years ago
#9
Grammar schools get the same as, or in most cases, less funding than comprehensive schools.
1
reply
Claire461
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#10
Report 2 years ago
#10
My children went to grammar schools. They are State schools.
0
reply
Miss Maddie
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#11
Report 2 years ago
#11
Send your kids to the best school you can whether they're comps, private, grammar, academies. It's not hard to live by.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Should the school day be extended to help students catch up?

Yes (96)
27.51%
No (253)
72.49%

Watched Threads

View All