My mother wants to put camera in my room when I move to halls Watch

Nmys
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#41
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(Original post by EleventhDoctor)
I'm an international student, and I have very strict parents.

This October I'll start an undergraduate course in London, and my mother wants to put a camera in my room at halls, and I certainly do not like this idea.

Could anyone give me any proofs whether it is illegal or not, so I could know if I can comehow persuade my mother not to do this.

I will live in Southside halls, if that matters.
It's sad your mother won't let you have your privacy, and that you feel like you can't just say no. You can say it is not allowed because it is illegal to record people without their knowledge, and as you are in halls people will often come and go inside your room to check things out - they won't do this without your consent, but there are often room checks, or if repairs are needed then they may come when you are not home. Therefore, if you have a secret camera recording any activity in your room, and the repairman comes in and is recorded without knowledge, or if a friend comes in, this is potentially a big issue.
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auburnstar
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It's abusive controlling behaviour. You may be under the age of 18 but you are also at university, living alone (or with flatmates), in college accommodation and mostly managing your own finances (either by SFE loan, part-time work, both etc). You are entitled to your own personal privacy.

"The use of hidden cameras is generally permitted under UK law, if used in a legal manner and towards legitimate ends. Individuals may use covert surveillance in their own home to spy on others, in the workplace to monitor employees, outside of a domestic or commercial property for security purposes. There are a number of laws under the Data Protection Act and Human Rights Acts that may impact on the use of hidden cameras.

In any type of covert surveillance, footage should only be used for the purpose for which it has been taken, which must be alegitimate security reason. The person in possession of the footage is responsible for its use, and must only retain footage for as long as it is reasonably needed. It is not permitted to release footage to third parties except when there is a legal necessity.

It is illegal under UK law to deploy covert cameras in areas where individuals would have an expectation of privacy, such as bathrooms, changing rooms and locker rooms, or plant a hidden camera in someone else’s home, or an area someone else owns."

The owner of the accommodation is the University. It is University property. The University is allowed to have safety devices in the room (fire/smoke alarm) and CCTV in hallways, kitchen and outside areas (as this is for a valid security and safety purpose). They are not allowed to have security cameras in places where people could be reasonably anticipated to get changed/undress such as in dorms, bedrooms or in bathrooms.

If they break this law, they run into an invasion of privacy, ownership of illicit materials and because the OP is a minor by law (age 17), they could be charged with possession of child pornography (a serious crime). Because of all of these which would heavily damage a University's reputation (potentially resulting in a court case) and damage the welfare of the individual, it is extremely unlikely they would allow any such cameras to be installed or maintained in a dorm. Even if the camera belongs to the mother if it is used in University property the University could be held liable by proxy for allowing its use.

On the side of the mother, it is not allowed to plant a hidden camera in someone else's home or property and as the property is University-owned, that law would apply in this case. So in short, no, it is not allowed. If this were happening in her own house that would be a different case and less questionable (although still manipulative and controlling, nevertheless).

If a cleaner or maintenance worker enters the room, spots a camera that is suspicious (ie a hidden camera, or a camera that does not look like a personal camera) they may report it. Most likely they would report and then dismantle it unless they suspected a bigger child welfare/abuse issue, but why would you take that chance over a camera.

edit: as Nmys also pointed out, if someone else enters the room they haven't given consent to be recorded and so the owner of the footage (the mother in this case) would be liable under UK privacy laws.

Spoiler:
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tl;dr Most likely she will be stubborn on this issue if she is the kind of person to spy on her independent teenager (nearly adult). I would second the suggestion to contact the university and have them put in writing that this is not allowed (and what they could do if they found out about a hidden camera) and print this off and give this to her. If she refuses, bring the camera and dismantle it/break it the day you get there and say that it broke (or toss it and say the University confiscated it).
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Muttley79
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#43
(Original post by EleventhDoctor)
I'm an international student, and I have very strict parents.

This October I'll start an undergraduate course in London, and my mother wants to put a camera in my room at halls, and I certainly do not like this idea.

Could anyone give me any proofs whether it is illegal or not, so I could know if I can comehow persuade my mother not to do this.

I will live in Southside halls, if that matters.
Why would a uni give permission for this? Many don't allow you to put posters on the wall so how on earth does this think she will be allowed to install a camera?
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Armaghgeddon1988
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Put the camera up and then disconnect it from the internet and say there is a internet connection issue.

If she is wanting to watch you I don't think it will be possible to say it isn't allowed. She will undoubtedly check with the University to see if a camera installation is possible.
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Erik28
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(Original post by auburnstar)
It's abusive controlling behaviour. You may be under the age of 18 but you are also at university, living alone (or with flatmates), in college accommodation and mostly managing your own finances (either by SFE loan, part-time work, both etc). You are entitled to your own personal privacy.

"The use of hidden cameras is generally permitted under UK law, if used in a legal manner and towards legitimate ends. Individuals may use covert surveillance in their own home to spy on others, in the workplace to monitor employees, outside of a domestic or commercial property for security purposes. There are a number of laws under the Data Protection Act and Human Rights Acts that may impact on the use of hidden cameras.

In any type of covert surveillance, footage should only be used for the purpose for which it has been taken, which must be alegitimate security reason. The person in possession of the footage is responsible for its use, and must only retain footage for as long as it is reasonably needed. It is not permitted to release footage to third parties except when there is a legal necessity.

It is illegal under UK law to deploy covert cameras in areas where individuals would have an expectation of privacy, such as bathrooms, changing rooms and locker rooms, or plant a hidden camera in someone else’s home, or an area someone else owns."

The owner of the accommodation is the University. It is University property. The University is allowed to have safety devices in the room (fire/smoke alarm) and CCTV in hallways, kitchen and outside areas (as this is for a valid security and safety purpose). They are not allowed to have security cameras in places where people could be reasonably anticipated to get changed/undress such as in dorms, bedrooms or in bathrooms.

If they break this law, they run into an invasion of privacy, ownership of illicit materials and because the OP is a minor by law (age 17), they could be charged with possession of child pornography (a serious crime). Because of all of these which would heavily damage a University's reputation (potentially resulting in a court case) and damage the welfare of the individual, it is extremely unlikely they would allow any such cameras to be installed or maintained in a dorm. Even if the camera belongs to the mother if it is used in University property the University could be held liable by proxy for allowing its use.

On the side of the mother, it is not allowed to plant a hidden camera in someone else's home or property and as the property is University-owned, that law would apply in this case. So in short, no, it is not allowed. If this were happening in her own house that would be a different case and less questionable (although still manipulative and controlling, nevertheless).

If a cleaner or maintenance worker enters the room, spots a camera that is suspicious (ie a hidden camera, or a camera that does not look like a personal camera) they may report it. Most likely they would report and then dismantle it unless they suspected a bigger child welfare/abuse issue, but why would you take that chance over a camera.

edit: as Nmys also pointed out, if someone else enters the room they haven't given consent to be recorded and so the owner of the footage (the mother in this case) would be liable under UK privacy laws.

Spoiler:
Show


tl;dr Most likely she will be stubborn on this issue if she is the kind of person to spy on her independent teenager (nearly adult). I would second the suggestion to contact the university and have them put in writing that this is not allowed (and what they could do if they found out about a hidden camera) and print this off and give this to her. If she refuses, bring the camera and dismantle it/break it the day you get there and say that it broke (or toss it and say the University confiscated it).


Best advice here
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username4242832
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#46
(Original post by EleventhDoctor)
I'm an international student, and I have very strict parents.

This October I'll start an undergraduate course in London, and my mother wants to put a camera in my room at halls, and I certainly do not like this idea.

Could anyone give me any proofs whether it is illegal or not, so I could know if I can comehow persuade my mother not to do this.

I will live in Southside halls, if that matters.
Will it be a private room where she puts the camera? If so I think it is fine. You could just remove the camera. If it is a shared room and the other flat mates don’t know about it then it is illegal.
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Plantagenet Crown
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She simply can't install the camera as it's illegal, end of.
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the beer
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Just spoof the camera feed with a recording.
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DrSocSciences
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#49
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#49
Tell her that you want a live feed to her bedroom too. See how she likes that.
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Baron of Sealand
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(Original post by auburnstar)
It's abusive controlling behaviour. You may be under the age of 18 but you are also at university, living alone (or with flatmates), in college accommodation and mostly managing your own finances (either by SFE loan, part-time work, both etc). You are entitled to your own personal privacy.

"The use of hidden cameras is generally permitted under UK law, if used in a legal manner and towards legitimate ends. Individuals may use covert surveillance in their own home to spy on others, in the workplace to monitor employees, outside of a domestic or commercial property for security purposes. There are a number of laws under the Data Protection Act and Human Rights Acts that may impact on the use of hidden cameras.

In any type of covert surveillance, footage should only be used for the purpose for which it has been taken, which must be alegitimate security reason. The person in possession of the footage is responsible for its use, and must only retain footage for as long as it is reasonably needed. It is not permitted to release footage to third parties except when there is a legal necessity.

It is illegal under UK law to deploy covert cameras in areas where individuals would have an expectation of privacy, such as bathrooms, changing rooms and locker rooms, or plant a hidden camera in someone else’s home, or an area someone else owns."

The owner of the accommodation is the University. It is University property. The University is allowed to have safety devices in the room (fire/smoke alarm) and CCTV in hallways, kitchen and outside areas (as this is for a valid security and safety purpose). They are not allowed to have security cameras in places where people could be reasonably anticipated to get changed/undress such as in dorms, bedrooms or in bathrooms.

If they break this law, they run into an invasion of privacy, ownership of illicit materials and because the OP is a minor by law (age 17), they could be charged with possession of child pornography (a serious crime). Because of all of these which would heavily damage a University's reputation (potentially resulting in a court case) and damage the welfare of the individual, it is extremely unlikely they would allow any such cameras to be installed or maintained in a dorm. Even if the camera belongs to the mother if it is used in University property the University could be held liable by proxy for allowing its use.

On the side of the mother, it is not allowed to plant a hidden camera in someone else's home or property and as the property is University-owned, that law would apply in this case. So in short, no, it is not allowed. If this were happening in her own house that would be a different case and less questionable (although still manipulative and controlling, nevertheless).

If a cleaner or maintenance worker enters the room, spots a camera that is suspicious (ie a hidden camera, or a camera that does not look like a personal camera) they may report it. Most likely they would report and then dismantle it unless they suspected a bigger child welfare/abuse issue, but why would you take that chance over a camera.

edit: as Nmys also pointed out, if someone else enters the room they haven't given consent to be recorded and so the owner of the footage (the mother in this case) would be liable under UK privacy laws.

Spoiler:
Show

tl;dr Most likely she will be stubborn on this issue if she is the kind of person to spy on her independent teenager (nearly adult). I would second the suggestion to contact the university and have them put in writing that this is not allowed (and what they could do if they found out about a hidden camera) and print this off and give this to her. If she refuses, bring the camera and dismantle it/break it the day you get there and say that it broke (or toss it and say the University confiscated it).
Then perhaps the best option is to install the camera, let her film the changing, report her to the police, so she has an arrest warrant her head and can never visit the UK.
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Federerr
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n0nc3
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TimmonaPortella
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(Original post by EleventhDoctor)
I'm an international student, and I have very strict parents.

This October I'll start an undergraduate course in London, and my mother wants to put a camera in my room at halls, and I certainly do not like this idea.

Could anyone give me any proofs whether it is illegal or not, so I could know if I can comehow persuade my mother not to do this.

I will live in Southside halls, if that matters.
Have you tried telling her she is completely mental?

Because that is completely mental.
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Johnathan94
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Despite a lot of the pseudo-legal mumblings here, it likely isn't an illegal act.
Your bedroom is your own accommodation in the same way as if you were renting a flat or a home elsewhere, and as such is yours to make decisions about (staying within the terms of your lease of course). Given that, by agreeing to allow your mother to set up a camera in that accommodation, she isn't acting covertly and you are willing giving up your expectation of privacy in that room - this is what would otherwise make it an illegal act.

That said, it's sure as hell not normal behaviour and the university accommodation staff will almost certainly see it your way.
Why not reach out to them yourself initially and explain your situation then and ask them to back you, then reach out a second time (or let your mother reach out) and be told a firm no as if they were hearing it for the first time - even better if they will state every punishment and repercussion that would come your way should the camera be set up. When you reach out, tell them your mother is mentally ill and that's the need for this whole performance - you won't be lying.
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Johnathan94
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(Original post by alws)
Why is this thread still going? The conclusion is: It is illegal under UK law.
Which law?
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alws
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(Original post by Johnathan94)
Which law?
Data Protection Act 1998 and Human Rights Act 1998 can both be used to prosecute those who use covert cameras in "places where an individual expects privacy"(e.g bathroom of your house, if other residents use that bathroom) and in other people's residences (which applies to OPs situation). This is assuming OP does not consent to the camera being installed, and I don't understand why he would if he is so against it.
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username4171924
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(Original post by alws)
Data Protection Act 1998 and Human Rights Act 1998 can both be used to prosecute those who use covert cameras in "places where an individual expects privacy"(e.g bathroom of your house, if other residents use that bathroom) and in other people's residences (which applies to OPs situation).
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Yup you’re a lawyer. Confirmed. No comment. Amen. ✨✨
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Sonja_f
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Hi, hopefully you have been able to get your mum to understand why having a camera in your room is just wrong but I think that the new GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation) would say that the images were considered personal data and there would be a lot of compliance issues, i.e. signage informing people your have CCTV, getting consent as it is for private use, encrypting any images if being transferred over the internet and could be unlawful to anyone who is not informed of this and the uni may have strict guidelines.
If she cant take no for an answer I would refer her to the university or the court of human rights bur I would be more worried about why she wants the CCTV, is she generally worried or does she not trust you? it will be hard for parents to let their children leave home but its your life and this should be an exciting and enjoyable time for you.

Good luck
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ThePricklyOne
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#58
(Original post by EleventhDoctor)
I'm an international student, and I have very strict parents.

This October I'll start an undergraduate course in London, and my mother wants to put a camera in my room at halls, and I certainly do not like this idea.

Could anyone give me any proofs whether it is illegal or not, so I could know if I can comehow persuade my mother not to do this.

I will live in Southside halls, if that matters.
Since your mom's such a bully already, what makes you think she'll accept your persuasion?

You don't need to persuade her - you tell her it's a NO.

If she carries on, Report her to the uni.
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emmataco
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(Original post by alws)
"It is illegal to set up a hidden camera in any property or room where the individual would expect to have privacy"
"It is also illegal to hide a spy camera in someone else's home."
It wouldnt be illegal if OP agreed to it, which she technically is as a condition of staying in her moms good books

It would be illegal if OP didnt know but she does
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ThePricklyOne
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(Original post by Johnathan94)
Despite a lot of the pseudo-legal mumblings here, it likely isn't an illegal act.
Your bedroom is your own accommodation in the same way as if you were renting a flat or a home elsewhere, and as such is yours to make decisions about (staying within the terms of your lease of course). Given that, by agreeing to allow your mother to set up a camera in that accommodation, she isn't acting covertly and you are willing giving up your expectation of privacy in that room - this is what would otherwise make it an illegal act.

That said, it's sure as hell not normal behaviour and the university accommodation staff will almost certainly see it your way.
Why not reach out to them yourself initially and explain your situation then and ask them to back you, then reach out a second time (or let your mother reach out) and be told a firm no as if they were hearing it for the first time - even better if they will state every punishment and repercussion that would come your way should the camera be set up. When you reach out, tell them your mother is mentally ill and that's the need for this whole performance - you won't be lying.
It's illegal because all other folks entering the room will need to consent to being filmed by student's mom. Should any one undress in the room, the already illegal filming will break some laws on sexual exploitation/invasion of right to privacy (e.g. sim to upskirting or filming people in changing rooms). Should anyone using the room be under 16, it gets more serious.

Agree there's defo something wrong with the mom.
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