Should 16 year olds have the vote? Watch

3121
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Johnathan94)
Getting a better-informed electorate is a great idea but my point, of course, was that you don't make it any worse by including 16-year-olds. People vote for stupid reasons and 16-year-olds would be no worse.

I absolutely am saying that the electorate is, broadly speaking, stupid. They go insane every election cycle about their wages. It's been an enormous, key issue, in every recent election. Along comes a party who says "Yeah, you're right - we should raise the minimum wage" and half the country goes nuts and starts screaming about communism. It's like if KFC invented self-slaughtering chickens. And yes, social media (despite its many flaws) is definitely better than most of the UK's rags. They're the reason why the average UK voter has strong feelings about everything, but can quote no facts about anything.
I agree. Voters hate being lied to but when the campaigns begin they beg to be lied to, they wanna hear what they wanna hear. They don’t care how it’ll happen they just want to be told it will happen. I was actually gonna say this in my original reply but deleted it.

I think the media has always been a distraction, take terrorism, we’re all made to fear it and live our lives in fear by it constantly being shoved down our throat and with social media that can be created by anyone or any group of people. They lose touch with reality and get consumed by anger and fear. At least before the media was fuelling it, now those emotions are genuine towards other people.… I could rant about social media for ages but it’s pointless. I guess the good part is the truth is out there thanks to it, you just have to look for it since lies are still handed to you.

I can see your point though. I don’t think it would badly harm the system but I don’t see it doing any good. Maybe it’ll work because at 16 you’re in school, you talk about it with friends and it becomes a habit when you’re older
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Johnathan94
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(Original post by Andrew97)
The need to get parental consent suggests that young people aren’t that independent in making those choices. I’m not sure a doctors note is comparable.

£8 per hour for student on part time hours would not result in taxation being paid.

On your second point, I’m not sure that is possible for a 16-17 year old.
https://www.gov.uk/know-when-you-can-leave-school
You're still not getting this idea of laws are you?
Whether in pragmatic circumstances most 16-year-olds need to pay income tax (so you're overlooking national insurance for a second time now), the fact that they have a legal obligation to do so means that, under a fair democratic system, they should have a right to a vote.

It seems like you want to overhaul a whole bunch of legal rights and responsibilities to make their minimum age 18. I'll say it again, that's fine, but under our current laws: it is unfair to deny 16-year-olds the right to vote.

Let's take the 'right to live independently' off the table although that's quite a stretch, there are any number of ways that they can claim that right in England and in Scotland, they undeniably have it - what about the five or 6 other ways in which they exhibit citizenship that I pointed out?

I noticed you've given up the whole pensioner thing as well, was that not a winner for you?
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Johnathan94
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#83
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(Original post by 3121)
I agree. Voters hate being lied to but when the campaigns begin they beg to be lied to, they wanna hear what they wanna hear. They don’t care how it’ll happen they just want to be told it will happen. I was actually gonna say this in my original reply but deleted it.

I think the media has always been a distraction, take terrorism, we’re all made to fear it and live our lives in fear by it constantly being shoved down our throat and with social media that can be created by anyone or any group of people. They lose touch with reality and get consumed by anger and fear. At least before the media was fuelling it, now those emotions are genuine towards other people.… I could rant about social media for ages but it’s pointless. I guess the good part is the truth is out there thanks to it, you just have to look for it since lies are still handed to you.

I can see your point though. I don’t think it would badly harm the system but I don’t see it doing any good. Maybe it’ll work because at 16 you’re in school, you talk about it with friends and it becomes a habit when you’re older
Your point really is just a complete non-starter.
The whole thing is predicated on the idea that young people are too dumb to vote, something I seriously doubt you would say to some spaced-out pensioner who doesn't know if it's New Year or New York.

You either need to implement a test in order to earn the right to vote (fine, a pragmatic nightmare that's ripe for abusing - but fine), or you agree that when a corresponding right/responsibility comes into effect, so does the right to vote. And if that right is to be taxation, independence, military service, consent to sex, consent to marriage or dictate your own medical care... then those begin at the age of 16.
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Andrew97
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(Original post by Johnathan94)
You're still not getting this idea of laws are you?
Whether in pragmatic circumstances most 16-year-olds need to pay income tax (so you're overlooking national insurance for a second time now), the fact that they have a legal obligation to do so means that, under a fair democratic system, they should have a right to a vote.

It seems like you want to overhaul a whole bunch of legal rights and responsibilities to make their minimum age 18. I'll say it again, that's fine, but under our current laws: it is unfair to deny 16-year-olds the right to vote.

Let's take the 'right to live independently' off the table although that's quite a stretch, there are any number of ways that they can claim that right in England and in Scotland, they undeniably have it - what about the five or 6 other ways in which they exhibit citizenship that I pointed out?

I noticed you've given up the whole pensioner thing as well, was that not a winner for you?
The pensioner thing was more asking you whether paying tax (whether it be NI) = a right a vote more than anything. In my opinion you don't reach full independence until aged 18, although I can see the arguments for it being 16. Like I say, i'd personally rather have all at 18. Or let 16 year old stand and thus vote.
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Le Vagabond
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#85
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(Original post by 3121)
How old are you now?

and no because it’s still a contained and controlled environment, when you work at a young age your employer has more responsibility over you and the different rules create a different environment, working at 17 vs 18 at the same company for me was a totally different experience.
I'm 23 luv
True that the employer has more responsibilities, but the reality of paying bills, caring for younger siblings, etc, what we often assume with adulthood is sometimes shouldered by younglings.
Yes, at 18 you're more flexible towards your employer and what you have to deal with at work, but if we're talking voting responsibilities, how about the 18s who don't work? etc
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RobinKent
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There has to be a cut off somewhere and lowering it to include the less experienced is not going to help. Age seems okay now.
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username4242832
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(Original post by Le Vagabond)
Monday's coming parliamentary discussion:

Should 16 year olds have the vote?

Discuss
**** no, deciding which pornographic magazine to buy is hard enough gh
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Sanjith Hegde123
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people say there is not magic graduation of maturity at 18, but neither there is at 16, that's just an argument to be made to raise the voting age.
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Conniestitution
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I don’t have any strong opinions about voting age. However, I do think that in secondary school there should be a few basic gov&politics lessons so that the youngest voters understand what they’re voting for. (I don’t mean a regularly timetabled lesson, but maybe a Politics day each year? One lesson per half term?)
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noey123
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#90
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I think they should be able to vote. Only because I don't think any 16 year old would go out of there way to vote if they didn't care about their future. It shows that they are interested in politics and care about the future of this country. Nowadays we see young people being more and more politically active. They have their opinions, they get involved in political debates which I think is great. So I think they should be able to vote and lets be honest the maturity difference between 16 and 18 is not that huge.
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jdijx
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#91
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#91
No. Many know **** all about politics.
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Mr Daily Mail
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#92
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#92
Increase it to 67.
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emmataco
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#93
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(Original post by Le Vagabond)
wait (0_0) i just seen this comment



Why?

you want to create a new feudalism ? (¬_¬) heh?
16 year olds dont pay taxes and are not affected by tax and spend decisions.

No representation with out paying tax

Its the same reason british expats in spain cant vote, they are not affected by the decisions of parliament and giving them influence would be unfair on the rest
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Purmerend
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#94
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#94
No.

Most people don't start to understand politics until they are in their mid-20, and that's at a basic level and actually starting to form an idea of the party or type of person they want to vote for. That and a 16 year old is still legally a child - they are not capable of making sound decisions on their own, and are classed as vulnerable according to the law in terms of being easily influenced. Particularly by left-wing politics.

I'd argue raising it to 21 but once someone is given something, it's harder to take away, so keep it at 18.

If you want to lower it 16 you might as well lower it 10 as that's when everyone in the UK is responsible for their own actions criminally.
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Purmerend
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#95
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(Original post by Johnathan94)
Also, what does the parental consent have to do with anything? They're able to commit to that choice, providing they have support. It isn't unilateral, sure, but most things aren't. You also need a doctor's endorsement to serve in the army - it doesn't make it any less your choice if you do end up joining.
Parental consent has a lot to do with it. Without that, you aren't joining the armed forces or marrying anyone. You do understand why parental consent is needed right? Because legally, children are vulnerable people, open to influence easily and therefore are restricted in making some choices for themselves - the choices they make are controlled by their parents and if their parents are controlling their choice, it's not really a choice because permission has to be given. They won't be sent to a war zone until they are 18, and they can get out at any time up to their 18th birthday.

A doctors endorsement is a form of risk assessment. Ultimately it is up to the recruiter whether you join or not based on your medical history - your argument there is moot.

Perhaps if we give 16 and 17 year olds the vote, they should be accompanied by a responsible person to the polling station.
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Pugglet
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#96
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If 16 year olds were given the right to vote then we need to be educating them about politics and keeping them up to date with the news so they can vote fully understanding why and what they are doing.
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howitoughttobe
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#97
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(Original post by WestDragon)
Mixed opinions on this one.
It's not just teenagers which are impulsive and immature, there are many, many adults who are at the same level/worse, the only difference really is "age". At what point do these "mature" adults suddenly change and become able to make reasonable decisions?
Instead of changing the voting age, why not make it mandatory to teach teenagers all that is necessary to be taught before allowing them to vote. It's not like anything important occurs in classes like PSE, so teach them.
As a 16-year-old, I wouldn't want to be able to vote without knowing all the facts. Personally, when I see the news talking about politics, I don't exactly see such a great "system" where parties fight within themselves and spend more time picking faults with the opposition than trying to fix their own ones.
Although, when parties do suggest giving the vote to 16-year-olds, it's probably because they want them to vote for their parties - not because they want to give them more rights.
We did learn about politics in PHSE, doesn't everyone?
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howitoughttobe
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(Original post by Davij038)
Why not 14 but 16? Makes no sense

25 I’d say is when most people have left uni, got a job and at least a modicum of life experience
Agreed. So many uni students with no life experience outside of uni (which lets face it is not a realistic representation of the real world) who have completely idealistic views. At least once they've had some life experience their views tend to become more realistic.
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Pugglet
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(Original post by howitoughttobe)
We did learn about politics in PHSE, doesn't everyone?
Not everyone, I know I had basic understanding up until I started to study politics but majority of my friends did not and still don't.
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TheTroll73
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#100
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lol no did you not see how mature 16 year olds are?
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