It really is Russell group, or dont bother.... Watch

Realitysreflexx
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https://amp.theguardian.com/money/20...ol-leaver-jobs
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Sen42
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To some extent yes... but the article doesn't at all touch on specific subjects and that's a huge factor. You don't need a Russell Group Uni to get a relevant job with a degree in engineering, medicine or IT just to name a few. But if someone is studying towards a saturated market like Psychology I 100% agree.
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Realitysreflexx
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(Original post by Sen42)
To some extent yes... but the article doesn't at all touch on specific subjects and that's a huge factor. You don't need a Russell Group Uni to get a relevant job with a degree in engineering, medicine or IT just to name a few. But if someone is studying towards a saturated market like Psychology I 100% agree.
Its just further confirmation of the split though, sounds to me like people who get BCC in their A levels dont need to really go to uni. Because thats about the cutoff for RG groups. Yet they are selling them "degrees" for the same price with no real chance at positive growth. So either they need to reduce the amount of degrees, or push business to employ people from less prestigious degrees.
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Sen42
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
Its just further confirmation of the split though, sounds to me like people who get BCC in their A levels dont need to really go to uni. Because thats about the cutoff for RG groups. Yet they are selling them "degrees" for the same price with no real chance at positive growth. So either they need to reduce the amount of degrees, or push business to employ people from less prestigious degrees.
The split is going to get bigger because it's such an easy and convenient way for recruiters from large companies to recruit better graduates (on average). The biggest downside I see is that there's an increasing weight being placed on A level results when it comes to future employment since that's what decides your Uni options.

I don't really see how pushing businesses to employ people from less prestigious degrees would work, why would they take the second best candidate? The increasingly commercialized Universities are part of the issue in my opinion. They shouldn't be selling people degrees the market has not (and will not) have the demand for, but it's made worse that so many young people now believe if they don't get a degree they're going to fall into a pit of doom. Which to some extent in the saturated Labour market holds some weight.
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Realitysreflexx
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(Original post by Sen42)
The split is going to get bigger because it's such an easy and convenient way for recruiters from large companies to recruit better graduates (on average). The biggest downside I see is that there's an increasing weight being placed on A level results when it comes to future employment since that's what decides your Uni options.

I don't really see how pushing businesses to employ people from less prestigious degrees would work, why would they take the second best candidate? The increasingly commercialized Universities are part of the issue in my opinion. They shouldn't be selling people degrees the market has not (and will not) have the demand for, but it's made worse that so many young people now believe if they don't get a degree they're going to fall into a pit of doom. Which to some extent in the saturated Labour market holds some weight.
Employers pay for smarts, and if people simply arent smart because their A levels indicated at an age where intelligence is possible at age 18...and then go to some dodgy uni (insert former polytechnic, english town)....then obviously they are going to catch on and keep records on where they find talent and not. Its only in the best interests of the business. Its also a shame that students arent pushed at university, and just handed high grades for showing up...its only hurting them, then i rather get my "real" mid 2:1 (hopefully) from a good uni. Then a first just to not know anything.
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lucabrasi98
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
Employers pay for smarts, and if people simply arent smart because their A levels indicated at an age where intelligence is possible at age 18...and then go to some dodgy uni (insert former polytechnic, english town)....then obviously they are going to catch on and keep records on where they find talent and not. Its only in the best interests of the business. Its also a shame that students arent pushed at university, and just handed high grades for showing up...its only hurting them, then i rather get my "real" mid 2:1 (hopefully) from a good uni. Then a first just to not know anything.
As long as you don't completely and utterly bomb it, honestly no employer care much about pre uni grades. Many employees don't even put it on their CV.

They give little indication of how you'll perform at work. As for the degree, you won't use nearly all of content learned in your degree when you start a job. This even applies to a lot of STEM subjects.

However the degree shows you have the skills necessary to learn on the job and develop into a competent worker. And this can still be the case if you get a first class from a lower ranked uni.

Imo what people should focus on is the actual course they're doing+ how competitive their future job is. That's what screws people over. Not A level grades and Uni choice.
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MKaur18
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(Original post by Sen42)
To some extent yes... but the article doesn't at all touch on specific subjects and that's a huge factor. You don't need a Russell Group Uni to get a relevant job with a degree in engineering, medicine or IT just to name a few. But if someone is studying towards a saturated market like Psychology I 100% agree.
I agree, subjects like medicine, and dentistry and other subjects don’t necessarily need to have completed their degree at a russel group uni. But yeah, some degrees I agree with shouldn’t be offered.
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paul514
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To a large extent I agree.

I don’t even think universities outside the top 30-40 should exist.

They should be repurposed to train people for technical qualifications, so called t levels.

Getting a degree isn’t success that comes in your personal and professional life, targets of half of all people going to uni were never going to work as there aren’t the jobs for them to go for.

Before anyone replies with uni isn’t all about getting a job if you want to read something that won’t turn into a job that’s called a hobby.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by paul514)
To a large extent I agree.

I don’t even think universities outside the top 30-40 should exist.

They should be repurposed to train people for technical qualifications, so called t levels.

Getting a degree isn’t success that comes in your personal and professional life, targets of half of all people going to uni were never going to work as there aren’t the jobs for them to go for.

Before anyone replies with uni isn’t all about getting a job if you want to read something that won’t turn into a job that’s called a hobby.
It's almost as if the massive expansion in universities was some sort of conspiracy to deskill the population. UK politicians and university administrators got fixated during the 80s and 90s on the finance sector and assumed manufacturing was basically over. Why then offer apprenticeships, vocational training, on the job learning, etc? Far better to create a blizzard of worthless university places and then later (thanks Andrew Adonis - we also admire your worthless HS2 project) make them saddle ordinary people with huge and unrepayable debts to fund them.

Something has to give somewhere. :rolleyes:
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TSR Mustafa
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Depends on what you're studying
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PhilanderingBum
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Generally I'd agree with you but as someone who wants to study Policing, this isn't the case for me. If I'd done another degree at a Russel, I'd have to do a six month conversion course to meet the 2020 degree requiement for the Police. I'm sure there are other professions which require very specific degrees that aren't offered at RG unis. Everyone is different
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by PhilanderingBum)
Generally I'd agree with you but as someone who wants to study Policing, this isn't the case for me. If I'd done another degree at a Russel, I'd have to do a six month conversion course to meet the 2020 degree requiement for the Police. I'm sure there are other professions which require very specific degrees that aren't offered at RG unis. Everyone is different
It immediately struck me how many of the female non-Russell Group graduates doing shift work were nurses?
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looloo2134
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(Original post by Sen42)
To some extent yes... but the article doesn't at all touch on specific subjects and that's a huge factor. You don't need a Russell Group Uni to get a relevant job with a degree in engineering, medicine or IT just to name a few. But if someone is studying towards a saturated market like Psychology I 100% agree.
It could be some people go to university because there school pushes them to go and should not be there. Sometime people go to university because they can't find employment or because they think they will have a good time.

I meet graduates from Russell group universities who are unemployable they got first class usually social science degrees and no social skills or common sense.
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NoTearsLeftToCry
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Don’t disrespect City g
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Plus7
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
Employers pay for smarts, and if people simply arent smart because their A levels indicated at an age where intelligence is possible at age 18...and then go to some dodgy uni (insert former polytechnic, english town)....then obviously they are going to catch on and keep records on where they find talent and not. Its only in the best interests of the business. Its also a shame that students arent pushed at university, and just handed high grades for showing up...its only hurting them, then i rather get my "real" mid 2:1 (hopefully) from a good uni. Then a first just to not know anything.
Is this just some ploy to bolster your ego?
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JohanGRK
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"It really is Russell group, or dont bother...."

Where is this evident in the article?
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looloo2134
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
Its just further confirmation of the split though, sounds to me like people who get BCC in their A levels dont need to really go to uni. Because thats about the cutoff for RG groups. Yet they are selling them "degrees" for the same price with no real chance at positive growth. So either they need to reduce the amount of degrees, or push business to employ people from less prestigious degrees.
A person who gains BCC in their A level who when to a poorly funded low achieving school on rough council estate from a poor family who get in work tax credits and school dinner ticket. Can get into a foundation year a RG group university they often do better than students from a richer background in there degree and working life because they are hard working.
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Joinedup
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
It immediately struck me how many of the female non-Russell Group graduates doing shift work were nurses?
Yep
Well I'm going to assume the press have put this ladies PHD thesis through the garbler.

It does appear that the graun and the indie have latched onto the outcomes for Women coming from the highest socio-economic background.

Graduates from the RG
Shift work 16%
zero hours 2%
underemployed 14%

Graduates from non RG
Shift work 28%
zero hours 3%
underemployed 17%

Non graduates
Shift work 19%
zero hours contract 2%
underemployed 30%

RG appears to matter a lot for shift work (probably a lot of nurses in there) but not do much for zero hours and underemployed.
(sample size of ~4000 so the difference between 2% and 3% is likely to be due to the statistical noise)

I'm not even sure what underemployed mean for non graduates - the graun defines underemployment as employment where their degrees are not needed... so are 70% of non graduate posh young ladies working in jobs that need a degree anyway?

---
Dunno if the research only looked at outcomes for the top socio economic group. the usual area of interest is whether or not unis are helping people from the lower socio economic groups move up.
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ltsmith
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So a medical degree from ARU is worthless?

An EEE degree from Loughborough is worthless?

Nuance...
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random_matt
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One article and is completely and utterly truthful, lol.
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