Cheapest Medicine course for International students outside of the UK Watch

nadman
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I would love to study Medicine in Australia but looking at Queensland Uni's site the fees for international students is $70k! Which is £40k per year - pretty pricey!

Is there anywhere slightly cheaper?

And is Aus always expensive for international students?


NB: am a UK resident and wish to study abroad preferably as I am a graduate and don't hold a 2:1 in my current degree

Cheers
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ecolier
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(Original post by nadman)
I would love to study Medicine in Australia but looking at Queensland Uni's site the fees for international students is $70k! Which is £40k per year - pretty pricey!

Is there anywhere slightly cheaper?

And is Aus always expensive for international students?


NB: am a UK resident and wish to study abroad preferably as I am a graduate and don't hold a 2:1 in my current degree

Cheers
Where are you looking to practise? Have you thought about Eastern European Unis? They are (relatively) popular with UK students.
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Jin3011
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What degree and classification do you hold? And would you be willing to study in the U.K as a graduate? is sitting the GAMSAT an option for you?
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username1562597
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Eastern Europe

But I wouldn't recommend this route because of the current political situation. No one knows how Brexit will affect the rights of IMGs to practice in the UK.

Also you need to think about how you're going to learn the language. (Unless your native language is Polish/Bulgarian or whereever you're going)

You need to be 100% fluent to have medical conversations with patients. If you don't reach fluency your clinical education will suffer and it will become apparent when you become a practicing doctor in the UK.
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username1562597
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(Original post by ecolier)
Where are you looking to practise? Have you thought about Eastern European Unis? They are (relatively) popular with UK students.
Do you know how many of them get into foundation training?

I've been looking for some statistics online but I can't find any.

I'm curious because in the US, its a well known fact that Caribbean graduates struggle to get residencies.
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ecolier
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(Original post by ltsmith)
Eastern Europe

But I wouldn't recommend this route because of the current political situation. No one knows how Brexit will affect the rights of IMGs to practice in the UK.

Also you need to think about how you're going to learn the language. (Unless your native language is Polish/Bulgarian or whereever you're going)

You need to be 100% fluent to have medical conversations with patients. If you don't reach fluency your clinical education will suffer and it will become apparent when you become a practicing doctor in the UK.
True, but you get what you pay for. English-speaking countries in general are more expensive (UK included).

(Original post by ltsmith)
Do you know how many of them get into foundation training?

I've been looking for some statistics online but I can't find any.

I'm curious because in the US, its a well known fact that Caribbean graduates struggle to get residencies.
As a forum regular, I trust that you do more research than many other people. So the following files you may well have seen. I do agree that information about this is limited.

On the foundation programme website, this is the closest I have seen. http://www.foundationprogramme.nhs.u...20Report_0.pdf
- pay attention to the EEA medical schools (which of course includes other non-Eastern European med schools).

I take it you have also looked at https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/docum...f-72995445.pdf - this has specific breakdown of which sub-region of Europe the doctors graduated from but it is not for Foundation Programme - it is for specialties.

Finally, remember that foundation training is not that competitive and currently EEA doctors do not require any extra exams to practise in the UK. Hence they can just join at FY2. You really should be looking at CT1 and whether they get into CT/ST1 rather than the Foundation Programme. There is also a problem that their post-grad exam pass rates are much lower (but then that applies to all overseas graduates not just Eastern European).
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username1562597
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(Original post by ecolier)

On the foundation programme website, this is the closest I have seen. http://www.foundationprogramme.nhs.u...20Report_0.pdf
- pay attention to the EEA medical schools (which of course includes other non-Eastern European med schools).
I have looked at the report and I see that 237 British IMGs applied for the foundation programme, although only 71 were accepted. Thats about 30%.

How do the other 166 applicants get into medical training? Do they reapply next year, locum around or leave the profession?

(Original post by ecolier)
I take it you have also looked at https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/docum...f-72995445.pdf - this has specific breakdown of which sub-region of Europe the doctors graduated from but it is not for Foundation Programme - it is for specialties.
I'm surprised EEA doctors make up quite a proportion of surgical and ophthalmological staff because those specialities are often regarded as the most competitive.

(Original post by ecolier)
Finally, remember that foundation training is not that competitive and currently EEA doctors do not require any extra exams to practise in the UK. Hence they can just join at FY2. You really should be looking at CT1 and whether they get into CT/ST1 rather than the Foundation Programme. There is also a problem that their post-grad exam pass rates are much lower (but then that applies to all overseas graduates not just Eastern European).
Do hospitals really consider the 'internships' EEA graduates completed as equivalent to FY1? Although a significant number of countries in the EU have good healthcare systems, countries like Bulgaria have failing and underfunded healthcare systems using medical technology from decades ago; I'd be surprised that students receive a similar standard of training. There's also the language barrier problem which IMO contributes to lower postgraduate exam scores. E.g. if not entirely fluent in the language, it will be an uphill battle to gain satisfactory clinical skills and bedside manner.
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ecolier
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(Original post by ltsmith)
I have looked at the report and I see that 237 British IMGs applied for the foundation programme, although only 71 were accepted. Thats about 30%.

How do the other 166 applicants get into medical training? Do they reapply next year, locum around or leave the profession?
Probably we'll never know. It's likely that they locumed.

I'm surprised EEA doctors make up quite a proportion of surgical and ophthalmological staff because those specialities are often regarded as the most competitive.
It could be that they specialised in the European country and then came here as the consultant / associate specialist.

Do hospitals really consider the 'internships' EEA graduates completed as equivalent to FY1?
Yes, if you go on the GMC website and try to apply for provisional registration (https://www.gmc-uk.org/registration-.../eea-countries) you actually cannot. You can only apply for full registration.

Although a significant number of countries in the EU have good healthcare systems, countries like Bulgaria have failing and underfunded healthcare systems using medical technology from decades ago; I'd be surprised that students receive a similar standard of training.
Agreed. But I suppose that's why it is cheaper there.

There's also the language barrier problem which IMO contributes to lower postgraduate exam scores. E.g. if not entirely fluent in the language, it will be an uphill battle to gain satisfactory clinical skills and bedside manner.
Not just the language though, it is the culture that's probably the most important. Remember in practical exams like PACES communication skills are very important. You have to agree a plan with the patient (in the UK / UK-based exams), whereas I feel that in many other countries medicine is still practised very paternalistically ("I am saying you have to do this... so you must").
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nadman
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(Original post by ltsmith)
Eastern Europe

But I wouldn't recommend this route because of the current political situation. No one knows how Brexit will affect the rights of IMGs to practice in the UK.

Also you need to think about how you're going to learn the language. (Unless your native language is Polish/Bulgarian or whereever you're going)

You need to be 100% fluent to have medical conversations with patients. If you don't reach fluency your clinical education will suffer and it will become apparent when you become a practicing doctor in the UK.
This was exactly my thought.

By introducing a language barrier I will have another hurdle to cross and grasping medicine itself is tough enough.
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nadman
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(Original post by Jin3011)
What degree and classification do you hold? And would you be willing to study in the U.K as a graduate? is sitting the GAMSAT an option for you?
I did get a 2:2 but on my certificate it says "ordinary degree"

I dont mind studying in the UK but most unis want 2:1 degrees.Whilst it may be relatively easy to get a first or 2:1 in business management or accounting and finance that doesnt necessarily mean someone will excel in medicine. Medicine is a tough subject and requires a different level of determination, focus, and commitment.

Ideally I would want to leave the UK and practice abroad for good. The UK has changed dramatically and the final stab will be Brexit I reckon!
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