Tory minister admits Brexit too complicated for referendums Watch

Fullofsurprises
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Speaking on Question Time, Conservative minister Rory Stewart said that any Brexit deal would be too complicated to put to a referendum.
http://jondanzig.blogspot.com/2018/0...eferendum.html

How strange then that the even more complicated decision on leaving the EU *was* put to a referendum.

A referendum then manipulated by offshore interests, such as global disaster hedge funds, the Kremlin and oligarchs in both Russia and the US.

Has there ever been a moment as treacherous, as treasonous, as completely surrendering to foreign interests as this in all of British history? Answers on a postcard.
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the bear
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referendum shmeferendum
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Trinculo
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The alternative being? We can never ever be free of the EU?
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Trinculo)
The alternative being? We can never ever be free of the EU?
What is there to be 'free' of exactly? Higher living standards. Open travel and currency arrangements throughout. No barriers to trade. A faster growing economy than the UK. A vast range of products. All very terrible things that we must free ourselves from immediately. :rofl:
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random_matt
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Someone is paranoid or just drunk.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by random_matt)
Someone is paranoid or just drunk.
The Tory Party?
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Trinculo
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
What is there to be 'free' of exactly? Higher living standards. Open travel and currency arrangements throughout. No barriers to trade. A faster growing economy than the UK. A vast range of products. All very terrible things that we must free ourselves from immediately. :rofl:
Loss of control of immigration and borders, law-making, courts, almost infinitely huge business regulation. We are fortunately not constrained in monetary policy - but what is coming next - common defence, EU Armed Forces and of course the gun-toting EU Border Police.

Trade will be fine. It was before, it will be again. It's fine outside of the EU. The EU is not the centre of the human condition.
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AngeryPenguin
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i.e. the electorate is too dumb to know what is best for them.

Which is true. Why do we grant these people power? Asking the populace what leader they want is like asking a toddler which interpretation of quantum mechanics they subscribe to. Why not have political and economic experts in think-tanks elect MPs? That way MPs such as Boris Johnson and Galloway (and, over in the US, Trump) wouldn't get close to power.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Trinculo)
Loss of control of immigration and borders, law-making, courts, almost infinitely huge business regulation. We are fortunately not constrained in monetary policy - but what is coming next - common defence, EU Armed Forces and of course the gun-toting EU Border Police.

Trade will be fine. It was before, it will be again. It's fine outside of the EU. The EU is not the centre of the human condition.
Your list of EU horrors are all things the UK had already obtained opt-outs from. But then why tell the truth about Brexit when you can instead close your eyes to it?
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Maker
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(Original post by Trinculo)
Loss of control of immigration and borders, law-making, courts, almost infinitely huge business regulation. We are fortunately not constrained in monetary policy - but what is coming next - common defence, EU Armed Forces and of course the gun-toting EU Border Police.

Trade will be fine. It was before, it will be again. It's fine outside of the EU. The EU is not the centre of the human condition.
Do you know what anything you have written means?
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Fullofsurprises
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For those thinking everything will be fine after March next year, here is some sobering reading - what the food industry really thinks about Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/food/201...are-jay-rayner

The stuff about stockpiling canned food is not a myth.
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Trinculo
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(Original post by Maker)
Do you know what anything you have written means?
Yes, I do. Do you?
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Reality Check
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(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
i.e. the electorate is too dumb to know what is best for them.

Which is true. Why do we grant these people power? Asking the populace what leader they want is like asking a toddler which interpretation of quantum mechanics they subscribe to. Why not have political and economic experts in think-tanks elect MPs? That way MPs such as Boris Johnson and Galloway (and, over in the US, Trump) wouldn't get close to power.
Because 'the people' have had enough of experts, apparently. I think it's called 'post truth'.
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Trinculo
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Your list of EU horrors are all things the UK had already obtained opt-outs from. But then why tell the truth about Brexit when you can instead close your eyes to it?
I didn't realise we could opt out of the ECJ and ECtHR and that we were in no way complicit in the EU project of empire building.
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Maker
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(Original post by Trinculo)
Yes, I do. Do you?
Explain.
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Trinculo
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(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
i.e. the electorate is too dumb to know what is best for them.

Which is true. Why do we grant these people power? Asking the populace what leader they want is like asking a toddler which interpretation of quantum mechanics they subscribe to. Why not have political and economic experts in think-tanks elect MPs? That way MPs such as Boris Johnson and Galloway (and, over in the US, Trump) wouldn't get close to power.
And your answer is.....dictatorship? Absolute monarchy? Some kind of council of oligarchs?

Because let's see, all the alternatives to liberal democracy work out so well, don't they?
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AngeryPenguin
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(Original post by Trinculo)
And your answer is.....dictatorship? Absolute monarchy? Some kind of council of oligarchs?

Because let's see, all the alternatives to liberal democracy work out so well, don't they?
China's doing alright.
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Reality Check
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
For those thinking everything will be fine after March next year, here is some sobering reading - what the food industry really thinks about Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/food/201...are-jay-rayner

The stuff about stockpiling canned food is not a myth.
In keeping with our wistful, misty-eyed view of the sunlit uplands that await us post Brexit, I presume we'll be stockpiling tins of corned beef and tinned fruit, as would befit a pantry in 1956.

I'm less worried about stockpiling tins. I'm more worried about the brain drain which will surely follow in the years post Brexit. Who is going to want to remain in this backward, inward-looking, fearful little country when they can be part of a global community and economy.

Europeans...stealing our minds....
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Maker
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(Original post by Reality Check)
Because 'the people' have had enough of experts, apparently. I think it's called 'post truth'.
But brexiters still go to doctors, solicitors and accountants, they should go to witch doctors, bar room lawyers and con men instead.
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Reality Check
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(Original post by Maker)
But brexiters still go to doctors, solicitors and accountants, they should go to witch doctors, bar room lawyers and con men instead.
Exactly. Post Truth is very selective.
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