Daniel Emery
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In my A-Levels I achieved 2 A* at one in law, and one in business, and a B grade in the English Language. I'm studying at NTU (a non-RG) uni with the hope of potentially going onto the Bar. (NTU is now actually ranked 16 in one of the UK rankings) My question is, if I'm the best lawyer in the entire country (speaking hypothetically of course) I.e A-Level A*s a First Class etc and will I still be descriminated against? Is the bias of Russell Groups a genuine elitist and prestige one or is it simply because they tend to rank higher as unis and have higher entry requirements?

All response will be appreciated. Thank-you!
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Notoriety
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Be active while you're at uni: committee/pro bono, academic law reviews (there's a national one in case NTU doesn't have much to offer; you probably can try for Notts one too) and obviously shadow and apply for minis. Do plenty of moots. Strive for a very high first, which should not difficult at NTU given your background.

Why did you go to NTU by the way? Extreme drop from A*A*B. No one cares about the rankings (no way is NTU 16th!) nor do they care about RG. They care, in very loose terms, about what they think a uni represents. To many elitists, NTU does not offer much (but getting a high first mitigates this).

EDIT: I missed the bar part of your post. The non-Oxbridge types who end up at the bar either end up in ordinary regional sets, in family or criminal, or they take up Oxbridge(/LSE/UCL) postgrad. This makes them more competitive for the top commercial and chancery sets.

The name of your uni does matter a little bit more because the recruitment process for chambers is a lot less "standardised" than firms. The bar is the more academic side of the profession and takes only the academic best, which is why so many people (even from Oxbridge) end up with a BCL from Oxford.

EDIT EDIT: I would try to read more formal writing, as your English is rather poor (universitys, bias of RG). This is going to harm you when it comes to applying for minis and full pupillages. You need to have exemplary writing skills.
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Daniel Emery
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Thank-you for your reply. Firstly, NTU did rank 16th amongst one of the University rankings of which a link can be found on the NTU Wikipedia I believe. Perhaps this is not one of the most credible, but I have no knowledge of such things, you'll have to have a look for yourself. Secondly, I attended NTU because I had no aspirations or belief in my academic abilities and needless to say come results day all the top places were gone. I'm fully aware top, top law places would be out of reach, but perhaps a more regional set would be more appropriate? Or would you advise someone in my position to avoid the bar completely? Apologies for my use of English, that's something I have duly noted.
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Notoriety
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(Original post by Daniel Emery)
Thank-you for your reply. Firstly, NTU did rank 16th amongst one of the University rankings of which a link can be found on the NTU Wikipedia I believe. Perhaps this is not one of the most credible, but I have no knowledge of such things, you'll have to have a look for yourself. Secondly, I attended NTU because I had no aspirations or belief in my academic abilities and needless to say come results day all the top places were gone. I'm fully aware top, top law places would be out of reach, but perhaps a more regional set would be more appropriate? Or would you advise someone in my position to avoid the bar completely? Apologies for my use of English, that's something I have duly noted.
It is not out of your reach. You are just going to have to work hard to get there. As will everyone else who is aspiring to work in law, no matter from which university they come. The bar is very competitive, but it is more manageable if you want to work in crim/family/PI or the weaker regionals. The tippy top are not excluded, but you're going to have to work even harder.

I would probably do a mixture of vacs and minis to see which side of law you want to work in. If you are not academically confident, it might be the solicitor route is more appropriate for you. But also you should have a think about what type of work you most enjoy.
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Daniel Emery
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Once again, thank-you for your response. I have no question that working at the Bar would be more to my favour than becoming a Solicitor, but I'm also reasonable with my expectations. In terms of academic confidence, although it has failed up to now I'm feeling much better about my ability going forward.

To clarify, in your opinion, if I am to graduate with a high first, mini-pupillages and other work experience alike, I would still have a chance at competing at the Bar? Could you also clarify what you are referring to when you say 'vacs'?

Furthermore, if I could use your knowledge further, could you categorise in a bit more detail exactly what is a 'top' area of law reserved for the elite and which are towards the lower end of the spectrum, for example criminal and family law that you have already mentioned.
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Slaughter&Ovary
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Drop out of NTU, you're wasting your money.
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Reality Check
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What is NTU?
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Daniel Emery
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(Original post by Slaughter&Ovary)
Drop out of NTU, you're wasting your money.
Can I ask on what basis this opinion is formed? NTU is Nottingham Trent University, it won University of the Year last Year if I'm correct, sits around 40 in the UK league rankings, with the exception of one which ranks it at 16th.
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Slaughter&Ovary
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(Original post by Daniel Emery)
Can I ask on what basis this opinion is formed? NTU is Nottingham Trent University, it won University of the Year last Year if I'm correct, sits around 40 in the UK league rankings, with the exception of one which ranks it at 16th.
It's a former polytechnic and therefore a waste of money. Low entry requirements, poor graduate prospects and not to mention the shame of being in a city where you're looked down upon by Uni of Nottingham students. (even UoN isn't great so even more embarassing)
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17blackhes
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(Original post by Slaughter&Ovary)
It's a former polytechnic and therefore a waste of money. Low entry requirements, poor graduate prospects and not to mention the shame of being in a city where you're looked down upon by Uni of Nottingham students. (even UoN isn't great so even more embarassing)
This is probably the most ignorant post I’ve ever seen. Have you attended NTU to have such a negative opinion on the place? It achieved a TEF gold which many of the Russell groups did not achieve, is ranked 16th in the guardian and won university of the year. People like you can’t accept that former polys are moving up in the ranks, perhaps even out ranking the Russell groups. OP: university is what you make of it, if you have zero social skills and no work experience but went to a Russell group, the name of your university isnt going to give you an edge over someone from NTU with tons of work experience and a good set of social skills. I’m fed up of people on TSR slamming polys when a lot are doing well for themselves and providing students with a gate way into the real world.
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Slaughter&Ovary
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(Original post by 17blackhes)
This is probably the most ignorant post I’ve ever seen. Have you attended NTU to have such a negative opinion on the place? It achieved a TEF gold which many of the Russell groups did not achieve, is ranked 16th in the guardian and won university of the year. People like you can’t accept that former polys are moving up in the ranks, perhaps even out ranking the Russell groups. OP: university is what you make of it, if you have zero social skills and no work experience but went to a Russell group, the name of your university isnt going to give you an edge over someone from NTU with tons of work experience and a good set of social skills. I’m fed up of people on TSR slamming polys when a lot are doing well for themselves and providing students with a gate way into the real world.
I wouldn't attend NTU even if you paid me. I wouldn't actually venture out of the Top 5 RG's, otherwise I'd be wasting my money as OP is doing. Any former poly won't get you anywhere in life and will give you zero job prospects and absolutely no chance in a legal career.
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17blackhes
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(Original post by Slaughter&Ovary)
I wouldn't attend NTU even if you paid me. I wouldn't actually venture out of the Top 5 RG's, otherwise I'd be wasting my money as OP is doing. Any former poly won't get you anywhere in life and will give you zero job prospects and absolutely no chance in a legal career.
Oh no what a shame. Good luck in your job prospects with that kind of attitude. Are you telling me a 3rd from UCL is better in terms of job prospects than a 1st from NTU?
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Slaughter&Ovary
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(Original post by 17blackhes)
Oh no what a shame. Good luck in your job prospects with that kind of attitude. Are you telling me a 3rd from UCL is better in terms of job prospects than a 1st from NTU?
Neither option is ideal sorry I can't comment on this.
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17blackhes
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(Original post by Slaughter&Ovary)
Neither option is ideal sorry I can't comment on this.
You’re telling me that 1st from NTU is “not ideal”. You sir are completed blind sighted by all this Russell Group rubbish
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Slaughter&Ovary
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(Original post by ltsmith)
Kid why don't you go back to class, play time is over now.

I know a sales director at BT who went to a poly. He clearly got somewhere in life.
Thanks for proving my point!
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J Papi
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mfw ppl are still being baited by Mr Ovary
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Daniel Emery
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(Original post by 17blackhes)
This is probably the most ignorant post I’ve ever seen. Have you attended NTU to have such a negative opinion on the place? It achieved a TEF gold which many of the Russell groups did not achieve, is ranked 16th in the guardian and won university of the year. People like you can’t accept that former polys are moving up in the ranks, perhaps even out ranking the Russell groups. OP: university is what you make of it, if you have zero social skills and no work experience but went to a Russell group, the name of your university isnt going to give you an edge over someone from NTU with tons of work experience and a good set of social skills. I’m fed up of people on TSR slamming polys when a lot are doing well for themselves and providing students with a gate way into the real world.
Thank-you very much for this comment! Someone who knows what they are talking about.
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Daniel Emery
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(Original post by JohanGRK)
mfw ppl are still being baited by Mr Ovary
It would seem that way!
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Daniel Emery
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(Original post by Slaughter&Ovary)
I wouldn't attend NTU even if you paid me. I wouldn't actually venture out of the Top 5 RG's, otherwise I'd be wasting my money as OP is doing. Any former poly won't get you anywhere in life and will give you zero job prospects and absolutely no chance in a legal career.
Perhaps you're just trying to troll, and if so, I'll humour you, but your factual inaccuracies somewhat invalidate your rather brash opinion.
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Reality Check
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(Original post by Daniel Emery)
It would seem that way!
To answer your original question, it would be naïf to suggest that some universities aren't as prestigious as others, and NTU and, say, Cambridge, aren't really in the same league. But that doesn't mean for one minute that your degree isn't going to allow you to have a successful career in the Law. Remember that many firms now are using 'university blind' applications and, whilst I'm not sure of their currency in legal recruiting, it's probably only a matter of time.

Times have changed, and the days of just having an Oxbridge degree and the right tie and accent to give you a golden pass into the professions is long gone (thank god). It's obviously important to do well academically at any university you study at, and you should be aiming for a first. But don't let your university choice dictate your future career.
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