Anti immigrant populist party gains power in Quebec after electoral tsunami...

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generallee
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The politics of three quarters of a century, swept aside by a new party storming to power. But who cares about Canada, right? Let alone a francophone province within it. Nothing to see there, let’s move on.

That is the view of the mainstream media, and if you rely on them to find out what is going on in the world, if you accede to their view as to what is and isn’t newsworthy, you will be blissfully unaware of this quite extraordinary electoral event. (I mean, the BBC and Guardian for example dutifully covered this political earthquake, but gave it so little context and prominence I bet few of you noticed)

There is a pattern here. Brexit, Trump, Sweden, Italy, electorates around the western world are starting to rebel against the liberal elites (and their media lickspittles) and mass immigration from what used to be called third world.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...plan-1.4813458

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...bols-1.4851301
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DrMikeHuntHertz
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Lovely, let the snowflakes cry.
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youarebananas
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The majority of immigrants to Quebec are either Hispanic or Muslim. It doesn't get much of the South Asian community because they didn't to immigrate to the US (where the immigration is mostly Islamophobic) and English Canada.
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AngeryPenguin
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They have around the same vote share as the Nazi party did in Germany's last free elections before the Nazi seizure of power.
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generallee
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(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
They have around the same vote share as the Nazi party did in Germany's last free elections before the Nazi seizure of power.
Let’s accept your premise for the sake of argument. (I don’t think the CAQ ARE fascist, actually, but let’s humour you and talk in your terms).

If uncontrolled, mass third third world immigration leads to modern day nazism, wouldn’t it be sensible to curtail it?
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AngeryPenguin
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(Original post by generallee)
Let’s accept your premise for the sake of argument. (I don’t think the CAQ ARE fascist, actually, but let’s humour you and talk in your terms).

If uncontrolled, mass third third world immigration leads to modern day nazism, wouldn’t it be sensible to curtail it?
That's political blackmail. What you are saying is that unless we appease racists, they'll turn into full-blown nazis.
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Kaffee_1998
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(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
That's political blackmail. What you are saying is that unless we appease racists, they'll turn into full-blown nazis.
The people voting for these parties aren’t racist though they’re pissed off at the governments not addressing they’re concerns regarding immigration and globalisation. Valid concerns too
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generallee
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(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
They have around the same vote share as the Nazi party did in Germany's last free elections before the Nazi seizure of power.
Let’s accept your premise for the sake of argument. (I don’t think the CAQ ARE fascist, actually, but let’s humour you and talk in your terms).

If uncontrolled, mass third third world immigration leads to modern day nazism, wouldn’t it be sensible to curtail it?
(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
That's political blackmail. What you are saying is that unless we appease racists, they'll turn into full-blown nazis.
Just saying it how it is.

To be fair it doesn’t matter what you alt left guys think anyway. Those in power are taking fright and frenziedly enacting measures to drastically reduce immigration even though leftist loons like you (no offence obviously) believe to do so is racy racy racist.

It is happening in Sweden because of the rise of the Sweden Democrats, in Germany thanks to the AfD, and in Italy following the election of the populists.

The UK is singular case, though. Brexit was all about immigration too, it totally fits the trend, but one of the most surreal aspects of that vote is that the subject is now never mentioned. And it s not as though Brexit isn’t talked about a lot, or anything. It is all every politician discusses, pretty much. Just not why it happened in the first place.

I don’t think a Corbyn government will ever be elected, myself, the Blairite parliamentary wing of the party will break away if it ever became a likelihood, in my view.

But since we were exploring implausible premises just now, were it to happen, and were this Corbynista administration to implement the open borders policies you on the alt left proselytise, this country would tear itself apart. If Brexit shows anything it demonstrates the total lack of democratic consensus for continued mass immigration at current levels.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by generallee)
The politics of three quarters of a century, swept aside by a new party storming to power. But who cares about Canada, right? Let alone a francophone province within it. Nothing to see there, let’s move on.

That is the view of the mainstream media, and if you rely on them to find out what is going on in the world, if you accede to their view as to what is and isn’t newsworthy, you will be blissfully unaware of this quite extraordinary electoral event. (I mean, the BBC and Guardian for example dutifully covered this political earthquake, but gave it so little context and prominence I bet few of you noticed)

There is a pattern here. Brexit, Trump, Sweden, Italy, electorates around the western world are starting to rebel against the liberal elites (and their media lickspittles) and mass immigration from what used to be called third world.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...plan-1.4813458

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...bols-1.4851301
What makes you think that CAQ are "anti-immigrant"?

Firstly, reducing annual immigration from 50,000 to 40,000 doesn't come across as "anti-immigrant" in any serious sense. Not only is this not a huge difference in absolute terms (Quebec has a population of over 8 million) but immigration targets have always been a staple of conservative political parties. They're hardly 'sweeping aside three quarters of a century' of politics - this is generally the norm and even left wing political parties have established harder limits on immigration in the past.

Secondly their policy on limiting religious symbolism in the civil service is nothing new. If you actually read the second article (I'm guessing you didn't) it says that the previous two Governments of Quebec (both liberal/left wing and both run by different parties) wanted to introduce the same law but were held back by unions and/or civil rights groups. This law also applies to all forms of religious symbolism (including Christian symbolism) so it cannot be directly considered as an anti-immigrant policy. It's a cultural one at best.
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DrMikeHuntHertz
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
What makes you think that CAQ are "anti-immigrant"?

Firstly, reducing annual immigration from 50,000 to 40,000 doesn't come across as "anti-immigrant" in any serious sense. Not only is this not a huge difference in absolute terms (Quebec has a population of over 8 million) but immigration targets have always been a staple of conservative political parties. They're hardly 'sweeping aside three quarters of a century' of politics - this is generally the norm and even left wing political parties have established harder limits on immigration in the past.

Secondly their policy on limiting religious symbolism in the civil service is nothing new. If you actually read the second article (I'm guessing you didn't) it says that the previous two Governments of Quebec (both liberal/left wing and both run by different parties) wanted to introduce the same law but were held back by unions and/or civil rights groups. This law also applies to all forms of religious symbolism (including Christian symbolism) so it cannot be directly considered as an anti-immigrant policy. It's a cultural one at best.
You seem quite anti-immigrant despite being in favour of open borders to the EU (and probably elsewhere).
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generallee
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
What makes you think that CAQ are "anti-immigrant"?

Firstly, reducing annual immigration from 50,000 to 40,000 doesn't come across as "anti-immigrant" in any serious sense. Not only is this not a huge difference in absolute terms (Quebec has a population of over 8 million) but immigration targets have always been a staple of conservative political parties. They're hardly 'sweeping aside three quarters of a century' of politics - this is generally the norm and even left wing political parties have established harder limits on immigration in the past.

Secondly their policy on limiting religious symbolism in the civil service is nothing new. If you actually read the second article (I'm guessing you didn't) it says that the previous two Governments of Quebec (both liberal/left wing and both run by different parties) wanted to introduce the same law but were held back by unions and/or civil rights groups. This law also applies to all forms of religious symbolism (including Christian symbolism) so it cannot be directly considered as an anti-immigrant policy. It's a cultural one at best.
I don’t think they ARE anti immigrant, any more than (say) UKIP were when they won the European elections. But they have been described as such by their province’s liberal elite because that has been the playbook all over the west. Call any soft nationalist party anti immigrant and racist and watch their vote share go through the roof.

https://globalnews.ca/video/4086060/...ing-caq-racist
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by DrMikeHuntHertz)
You seem quite anti-immigrant despite being in favour of open borders to the EU (and probably elsewhere).
That's odd, what makes you say that? Generally speaking I am in favour of immigration.

(Original post by generallee)
I don’t think they ARE anti immigrant, any more than (say) UKIP were when they won the European elections. But they have been described as such by their province’s liberal elite because that has been the playbook all over the west. Call any soft nationalist party anti immigrant and racist and watch their vote share go through the roof.

https://globalnews.ca/video/4086060/...ing-caq-racist
Fair enough. Still don't see much reason for you to get all that hyped about this, especially for the reasons you have descibed.
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Joleee
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Quebec is not Canada tho. indeed they consider themselves to have their own identity and hate anything west of Quebec (generally speaking). if you go to parts of Quebec, they either don't know English or refuse to speak it to you. they even held a referendum to leave Canada twenty years ago but realised they couldn't afford to live on their own, so the referendum failed. my point is, Quebec's politics is not a reflection of the rest of the country. i'm not sure what this immigration hoo-haw is because Canada already works on the points system; not just anyone can come in. but i guess it's politicians playing on the Quebecois' fear they will lose their distinct identity, so well played i suppose.
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AperfectBalance
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(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
They have around the same vote share as the Nazi party did in Germany's last free elections before the Nazi seizure of power.
OH MY GOD THE COMMUNIST PARTY OF BRITAIN HAS THE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME AMOUNT OF VOTES AS LENIN DID BEFORE THE COMMUNISTS TOOK OVER IN RUSSIA

Looks like we need a civil war to sort things out
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generallee
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(Original post by Joleee)
Quebec is not Canada tho. indeed they consider themselves to have their own identity and hate anything west of Quebec (generally speaking). if you go to parts of Quebec, they either don't know English or refuse to speak it to you. they even held a referendum to leave Canada twenty years ago but realised they couldn't afford to live on their own, so the referendum failed. my point is, Quebec's politics is not a reflection of the rest of the country. i'm not sure what this immigration hoo-haw is because Canada already works on the points system; not just anyone can come in. but i guess it's politicians playing on the Quebecois' fear they will lose their distinct identity, so well played i suppose.
Quebec is not the rest of Canada, that is true. English speaking Canada is embarrassed by its own heritage and history. Everyone in the UK has heard about the Confederate statues kerfuffle south of the border, but few know it is paralleled by a similar campaign against a fabled Anglo Canadian politician...

http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2018/08/13/s...tish-columbia/

Whilst English speaking Canada is ashamed of its culture and history (or at least the virtue signalling elite and media are) the Quebecois are, per contra, inherently proud of their language, ethnicity, culture and heritage.

Good for them.
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anarchism101
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Don't really see why you'd expect to see this get huge coverage over here. CAQ aren't exactly some fringe insurgents, they're just Quebec's regular centre-right party who, while not formally linked, fill the same political niche as the Conservative Party nationally. Sure, such a party hasn't been in power in Quebec since 1970 (don't know where you get "three quarters of a century" from), which makes it a big news story in Canada, but it's essentially the equivalent of the Tories becoming the largest party in Scotland (which would be arguably more unprecedented, as it hasn't happened since 1955) - would be a big UK news story, but probably only a minor one elsewhere.
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Andrew97
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(Original post by AperfectBalance)
OH MY GOD THE COMMUNIST PARTY OF BRITAIN HAS THE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME AMOUNT OF VOTES AS LENIN DID BEFORE THE COMMUNISTS TOOK OVER IN RUSSIA

Looks like we need a civil war to sort things out
Sounds fun....
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generallee
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They were founded less than seven years ago, and now hold 74 out of the 125 seats in the assembly. They couldn’t be more insurgent!

(My bad, you are quite right on one aspect though. They are the first non separatist, non Liberal party to hold power in more than HALF a century).

It is both novel and phenomenal, however much you attempt to downplay it.

I get that no one cares about Quebec except when they threaten independence, but you can bet that if this were an insurgent left wing administration they would be getting more coverage from left leaning journos and editors in the mainstream media.

I remember all the fuss made about the late Hugo Chavez when he assumed power in Venezuela, he was the most marvellous, visionary, brilliant leader and statesman since I don’t know, Salvador Allende... It made me want to puke frankly.. You hear less Chavez hero worship nowadays from the leftist media I have noticed.
(Original post by anarchism101)
Don't really see why you'd expect to see this get huge coverage over here. CAQ aren't exactly some fringe insurgents, they're just Quebec's regular centre-right party who, while not formally linked, fill the same political niche as the Conservative Party nationally. Sure, such a party hasn't been in power in Quebec since 1970 (don't know where you get "three quarters of a century" from), which makes it a big news story in Canada, but it's essentially the equivalent of the Tories becoming the largest party in Scotland (which would be arguably more unprecedented, as it hasn't happened since 1955) - would be a big UK news story, but probably only a minor one elsewhere.
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anarchism101
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(Original post by generallee)
They were founded less than seven years ago, and now hold 74 out of the 125 seats in the assembly. They couldn’t be more insurgent!
They were formally founded less than 7 years ago, true, but that was largely just a reformation of Quebec's previous main centre-right party, the ADQ, with the addition of some right-leaning defectors from the separatists. This kind of thing isn't that unusual on the Canadian political right - the national Conservative Party was technically only founded in 2003, but in practice that was just a rebranding of the old Progressive-Conservative Party.

I get that no one cares about Quebec except when they threaten independence, but you can bet that if this were an insurgent left wing administration they would be getting more coverage from left leaning journos and editors in the mainstream media.
The NDP's sudden surge from being also-rans winning fewer seats than the separatists to the second-largest party in Canada in 2011 got relatively little attention outside Canada too.
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generallee
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(Original post by anarchism101)
They were formally founded less than 7 years ago, true, but that was largely just a reformation of Quebec's previous main centre-right party, the ADQ, with the addition of some right-leaning defectors from the separatists. This kind of thing isn't that unusual on the Canadian political right - the national Conservative Party was technically only founded in 2003, but in practice that was just a rebranding of the old Progressive-Conservative Party.



The NDP's sudden surge from being also-rans winning fewer seats than the separatists to the second-largest party in Canada in 2011 got relatively little attention outside Canada too.
It is a totally new party old chap.

Next you will be telling me (as someone researching a doctorate in history, I believe) that the SDP weren’t a totally new party in the the early 1980’s because the Gang of Four were all ex Labour Cabinet Ministers!

The difference is that the CAQ “broke the mould” and the SDP sank without much trace. Dividing the progressive vote and keeping Thatcher in power more than anything.
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