Gary Younge on identity politics in The Guardian Watch

Davij038
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https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ntity-politics

Just read this today.

Sigh...

As ever with lefties, they’re half right half very, very wrong.

Let’s start with the good part- ‘there is always identity in politics’ - very true, this idea of individualism promoted by libertarians is harmful nonsense.


But let’s go to where he goes wrong. His two main points are


‘The rich and powerful do not like identity politics.

Oh sure they do. It depends on their agenda. For instance, in the US identity politics and jingoism was whipped up to start war in the Middle East. Or for instance most banks have the gay pride out for gay pride week. Colin kaepernicj who suppports BLM is the face of Nike. What Gary means is that that the establishment, including people such as him reject nationalism and ethnic solidarity because it is the only force capable of overthrowing the liberal order that he represents.


Not all identies are equal

Reminds me of:

‘all animals are equal....’😂


Ahhh, interesting. So Gary basically believes in the ‘victim hierachy’. In this society a disabled Black Muslim trans woman with the IQ of a grape is essentially the model citizen. And of course, for the liberal establishment running the shots - they probably are the ideal citizen as they’re Chance of forming a rebellion are exactly nil.


Or you know, we could actually encourage the best of our people that are the majority and actually do what the majority of people want- lower immigration and support stable, healthy and successful families with a strong community.

This is the same whether you are in China, the US, Nigeria or Brazil.


ChaoticButterfly

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paul514
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(Original post by Davij038)
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ntity-politics

Just read this today.

Sigh...

As ever with lefties, they’re half right half very, very wrong.

Let’s start with the good part- ‘there is always identity in politics’ - very true, this idea of individualism promoted by libertarians is harmful nonsense.


But let’s go to where he goes wrong. His two main points are


‘The rich and powerful do not like identity politics.

Oh sure they do. It depends on their agenda. For instance, in the US identity politics and jingoism was whipped up to start war in the Middle East. Or for instance most banks have the gay pride out for gay pride week. Colin kaepernicj who suppports BLM is the face of Nike. What Gary means is that that the establishment, including people such as him reject nationalism and ethnic solidarity because it is the only force capable of overthrowing the liberal order that he represents.


Not all identies are equal

Reminds me of:

‘all animals are equal....’😂


Ahhh, interesting. So Gary basically believes in the ‘victim hierachy’. In this society a disabled Black Muslim trans woman with the IQ of a grape is essentially the model citizen. And of course, for the liberal establishment running the shots - they probably are the ideal citizen as they’re Chance of forming a rebellion are exactly nil.


Or you know, we could actually encourage the best of our people that are the majority and actually do what the majority of people want- lower immigration and support stable, healthy and successful families with a strong community.

This is the same whether you are in China, the US, Nigeria or Brazil.


ChaoticButterfly

paul514
Unless you are treating people the same in politics then it’s wrong, end of story.

Identity politics are all about giving something more to an apparent victim.

Be that positive discrimination or giving more credence to a voice because it comes from someone in a particular group.

It’s literally the opposite of MLK’s I have a dream speech, which is about equality.
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Good bloke
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It is an incoherent diatribe that basically seems to say identity politics is wonderful; if only it were called something else, and in the middle of it he says:

It is no longer worth claiming or critiquing, not because there is nothing to interrogate about the role of identity in politics, but because the term itself has become an obstacle to that interrogation.

which is quite ironic.
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Davij038
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(Original post by paul514)
Unless you are treating people the same in politics then it’s wrong, end of story.
The state will always discriminate to some degree- for instance we have borders.
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Antpoolio
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> The Guardian

That's all you need to say
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paul514
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(Original post by Davij038)
The state will always discriminate to some degree- for instance we have borders.
I’m only interested in the states discrimination of its own people personally
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the bear
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does Younge rhyme with clunge ?

:dontknow:
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yudothis
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Ah identity politics, the other side of the coin to the oppression olympics. Identify as the most oppressed group and you can even justify violence against those who do not submit/pander to you.
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Joinedup
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when for every $100 in wealth a white person has in the US an African-American has just $5


really? I think there's probably a lot of white americans wondering what happened to their white bonus... They're probably not jumping for joy because although their wages are crappy, the CEO of their employer has the same colour skin as them.

Probably talking about averages as if they apply to all individuals is part of the problem people outside the media bubble have with the identity politics of bubble dwellers.
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yudothis
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(Original post by Joinedup)

really? I think there's probably a lot of white americans wondering what happened to their white bonus... They're probably not jumping for joy because although their wages are crappy, the CEO of their employer has the same colour skin as them.

Probably talking about averages as if they apply to all individuals is part of the problem people outside the media bubble have with the identity politics of bubble dwellers.
Ah yes, because a minority of the group have it bad, it's no problem that the actual minority have it bad.

If you were faced with the choice "be born black or be born white in the US" what would you go for?
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Good bloke
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(Original post by yudothis)
If you were faced with the choice "be born black or be born white in the US" what would you go for?
Which would you go for: be born in Africa, or be born black in the USA?
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Davij038
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(Original post by yudothis)
Ah yes, because a minority of the group have it bad, it's no problem that the actual minority have it bad.

If you were faced with the choice "be born black or be born white in the US" what would you go for?
This is just whatsboutery.


Rather than pandering to a minority why not focus on the wellbeing of the majority of people who are in the main responsible for the wealth and success of society at large?
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yudothis
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(Original post by Davij038)
This is just whatsboutery.


Rather than pandering to a minority why not focus on the wellbeing of the majority of people who are in the main responsible for the wealth and success of society at large?
So your opinion is, help every single white person before you help non-whites?
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yudothis
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(Original post by Good bloke)
Which would you go for: be born in Africa, or be born black in the USA?
That's not what is being discussed. How a country chooses its politics and how to address its citizens has no relation to a different continent.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Good bloke)
Which would you go for: be born in Africa, or be born black in the USA?
White or Black in Africa?
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Good bloke
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
White or Black in Africa?
Does it matter? There are 90 million caucasians in Egypt alone and loads more across north Africa. Would you rather be one of them or American?
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Good bloke)
Does it matter? There are 90 million caucasians in Egypt alone and loads more across north Africa. Would you rather be one of them or American?
It matters in the same way it makes a difference being black or white in america. Duh

Being born white in Africa just mean statisitically I have a better chance of a better lot in life than if I was born black. Like if you were giving me the choice of my race to be born in Africa I would choose white no doubt.
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Davij038
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(Original post by yudothis)
So your opinion is, help every single white person before you help non-whites?
In white majority countries, yep. It’s obscene not to 👍🏻

The only possible exception is the US, where they should either balkanise or have full equality which entails scrapping most civil rights legislation.
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Davij038
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
It matters in the same way it makes a difference being black or white in america. Duh

Being born white in Africa just mean statisitically I have a better chance of a better lot in life than if I was born black. Like if you were giving me the choice of my race to be born in Africa I would choose white no doubt.
What about being born into a poor white family or born into a rich Jewish/ Black one?
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paul514
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(Original post by yudothis)
So your opinion is, help every single white person before you help non-whites?
Ah it’s called help everybody
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