Banksy: going, going, gone...

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Reality Check
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#41
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#41
(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
It is, in itself, a senseless act of destruction, and I think you give the artist far too much credit in attributing to him and his work your own thoughts about property, value, aesthetics, and all the rest of it.

But, since you ask, no, I am not prompted by this to think about any of the things you mention. I have found it perfectly possible to consider the nature of ownership, value, and the like, without needing to see a stunt like this. Are you telling me that you didn't consider the questions you're raising until you saw this stunt? That you had to see the partial destruction of a sold piece of artwork before you were able to access these thoughts?
I think you make reasonable points and I read it with interest. Of course I'd thought about the questions and issues I'd raised before seeing this 'stunt', but it did act as a prompt for me, and I revisited them. Any piece of art that makes me think is valuable, as far as I"m concerned and just because I've had previous thoughts about the issues raised doesn't mean that a piece that prompts me to revisit these thoughts is somehow less valuable.

I disagree that it was a 'senseless act of destruction'. For me, it was also a commentary of the nature of Banksy work, and where it came from. He is a graffiti artist. His work is destined to be removed, to be obliterated, to be scrubbed away, to be painted over and hidden from view. That we have now appreciated his 'art' so much as to have it framed and put on the wall at Sotheby's for £1,000,000 is entirely ironic to me. That the artist himself did what previously Lambeth borough council might have done and (self)-destroyed his graffito, live in a shrine dedicated to 'permanent' works of art is brilliant to me. I think you do him a disservice by suggesting that he would be oblivious of these implications and messages of his work and actions.
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username3883544
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#42
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#42
A video of the shredding has been posted on his Instagram feed.
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CoolCavy
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#43
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#43
Dont see why people pay for stuff like that, you could just print it out from the internet and it would look as good
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hezzlington
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#44
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#44
I regularly work with original banksy artwork, as well as sothebys and other auction houses.

I'd keep the shreds if I were the owner....
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Doones
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#45
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#45
(Original post by DSutch)
A video of the shredding has been posted on his Instagram feed.
It's on The Guardian link I posted earlier.

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WW2whathappened
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#46
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#46
I like some of his work but this is just stupid.
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JaseyB
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#47
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#47
It certainly took me by surprise when I saw it on the news last night, it's like something I would expect right out of an epispode of "Only Fools and Horses". Absolutely brilliant.
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Joinedup
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#48
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Don't know enough about fine art auctions to know if it's normal for the painting to be hung up right next to the people I presume were bidding on it like that... so that if anything *unusual* happened you'd get their reactions in the same shot.

TBH I'm a bit suspicious that the auction house was colluding.
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Fullofsurprises
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#49
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(Original post by WW2whathappened)
I like some of his work but this is just stupid.
I don't see why - it's a clever poke at the bloated casino of upper class art dealing and at the same time it's very much a Banksy kind of happening. I think if anything this will only boost his reputation, which is much more solidly earned and intelligent than the total exploiters like Damien Hirst and Tracey Emin.
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nulli tertius
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#50
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(Original post by Joinedup)
Don't know enough about fine art auctions to know if it's normal for the painting to be hung up right next to the people I presume were bidding on it like that... so that if anything *unusual* happened you'd get their reactions in the same shot.

TBH I'm a bit suspicious that the auction house was colluding.
The people standing next to it were Sothebys staff taking telephone bids.

How the physical works are handled at an auction has changed with internet age.The hanging didn't look odd to me.

What was a "coincidence" is that the Banksy was supposed to be the last lot of the sale. That clearly suits the interests of the auctioneers. The Banksy was by no means the most expensive lot of the night. Star lots are usually not the first or last losts of an auction. They are normally offered early in an auction but after people have had time to settle and with easy to sell lots preceeding them. There may have been other reasons for it going last. Banksy attracts a lot of media and it might have been felt that it would be difficult to settle the audience after the lot.

Something seems to have gone wrong on the night and a lot seems to have been re-offered after the Banksy. You can hear the auctioner making an announcement on the Guardian video.
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Joinedup
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#51
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Aussie electronics expert pours cold water on Banks'y back story.

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Doones
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#52
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(Original post by Joinedup)
Aussie electronics expert pours cold water on Banks'y back story.

Yeah it was definitely installed v recently. Probably just before it went to auction.

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nulli tertius
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Doonesbury)
Yeah it was definitely installed v recently. Probably just before it went to auction.

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The authentication was by an arm of the Banksy operation. Therefore it is possible that the whole history of this version of the work (there are other versions) is fake.The painting was supposedly given to the anonymous seller by Banksy in 2006. Very few paintings that are artist's gifts are given away in the joint lifetimes of recipient and artist. I wonder if this version actually existed betfore 2017.
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Fullofsurprises
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#54
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(Original post by Joinedup)
Aussie electronics expert pours cold water on Banks'y back story.

V. interesting. Sounds like Bankers got together with a mate who he previously 'sold' this too in order to run the gag.

It's a huge boost for Banksy who presumably will go on to sell a number of important works at huge prices when the issue of his retirement fund starts to become a thing. One imagines these will not be shredded at point of sale.
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Doones
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#55
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#55
Will Gompertz gives it 5 stars:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-45818204

"Love is in the bin"


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Joinedup
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#56
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
The authentication was by an arm of the Banksy operation. Therefore it is possible that the whole history of this version of the work (there are other versions) is fake.The painting was supposedly given to the anonymous seller by Banksy in 2006. Very few paintings that are artist's gifts are given away in the joint lifetimes of recipient and artist. I wonder if this version actually existed betfore 2017.
Well of course being authentic is very important in the artistic world...

Otherwise everyone with a rattlecan of paint would be producing £1M masterpieces... and that would never do.

I think it's assumed that conceptual artists are getting paid for thinking up cool concepts... but possibly they're getting the finished concepts and finished objects pitched to them and it's the artists branding that's creating the value.

Ferinstance there's a chap called Mike Harrison who often works with artists
He talks about what he does in this youtube



first part of the video describes how he came up with the idea and made it work (incl a lot of technical stuff that's probably of limited interest to non technical viewers) from 34:45 ish he starts talking about the magical ingredient that turns the object he conceived and made he made into a valuable work of art with a five figure pricetag.

AFAIK mike making this video hasn't reduced the value of the piece in question - the art establishment appears to continue on as if the celebrated artist came up with the concept for reflecting, referencing, exploring and confronting in this way and should be highly paid for that mental effort.

Seems pretty unlikely that Banksy designed and built his own remote control picture frame shredder... but did Banksy come up with the idea for himself, or did someone like Mike come up with the concept and then shop it around via artistic middlemen?
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thuv
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#57
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This is something that looks like it’s from a fictional detective movie. Banksy is brilliant, I totally agree that he has shed a positive light on graffiti artists
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