Journey Into Nazism! Watch

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Day Of The Rope
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I am a happily attached, young white gender neutral. I grew up in a happy, Conservative household. I’ve spent my entire life – save the last four months – as a progressive liberal. All of my friends are very liberal or left-leaning centrists. I have always voted Liberal Democrat or Green. I voted remain in the referendum. The thought of racism in any form has always been abhorrent to me.

When leave won, I was devastated. I was curious as to the motives of leave voters. Surely they were not all racist, bigoted or hateful? I watched some debates on YouTube. Obvious points of concern about terrorism were brought up. A leaver cited https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2011/apr/12/atheism-myth-sam-harris"]Sam Harris[/url] as a source. I looked him up: this “intellectual, free-thinker” was very critical of Islam. Naturally my liberal kneejerk reaction was to be shocked, but I listened to his concerns and some of his debates.

This, I think, is where YouTube’s “suggested videos” can lead you down a rabbit hole. Moving on from Harris, I unlocked the Pandora’s box of “It’s not racist to criticise Islam!” content. Eventually I was introduced, by YouTube algorithms, to https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter"]Milo Yiannopoulos[/url] and various “anti-SJW” videos (SJW, or https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/apr/20/billy-corgan-compares-social-justice-warriors-kkk"]social justice warrior[/url], is a pejorative directed at progressives). They were shocking at first, but always presented as innocuous criticism from people claiming to be liberals themselves, or centrists, sometimes “just a regular conservative” – but never, ever identifying as the dreaded “alt-right”.

For three months I watched this stuff grow steadily more fearful of Islam. “Not Muslims,” they would usually say, “individual Muslims are fine.” But Islam was presented as a “threat to western civilisation”. Fear-mongering content was presented in a compelling way by charismatic people who would distance themselves from the very movement of which they were a part.

At the same time, the anti-SJW stuff also moved on to anti-feminism, men’s rights activists – all that stuff. I followed a lot of these people on Twitter, but never shared any of it. I just passively consumed it, because, deep down, I knew I was ashamed of what I was doing. I’d started to roll my eyes when my friends talked about liberal, progressive things. What was wrong with them? Did they not understand what being a real liberal was? All my friends were just SJWs. They didn’t know that free speech was under threat and that politically correct culture and censorship were the true problem.

On one occasion I even, I am ashamed to admit, very diplomatically expressed negative sentiments on Islam to my wife. Nothing “overtly racist”, just some of the “innocuous” type of things the YouTubers had presented: “Islam isn’t compatible with western civilisation.”
She was taken aback: “Isn’t that a bit … rightwing?”

I justified it: “Well, I’m more a left-leaning centrist. PC culture has gone too far, we should be able to discuss these things without shutting down the conversation by calling people racist, or bigots.”
The indoctrination was complete.

A protest against Donald Trump’s appointment of Steve Bannon – accused of being a white nationalist – as his chief strategist.

About a week before the US election, I heard one of these YouTubers use the phrase “red-pilled” – a term from the film The Matrix – in reference to people being awakened to the truth about the world and SJWs. Suddenly I thought: “This is exactly like a cult. What am I doing? I’m turning into an ********.”

I unsubscribed and unfollowed from everything, and told myself outright: “You’re becoming a racist. What you’re doing is turning you into a terrible, hateful person.” Until that moment I hadn’t even realised that “alt-right” was what I was becoming; I just thought I was a more open-minded person for tolerating these views.

It would take every swearword under the sun to describe how I now feel about tolerating such content and gradually accepting it as truth. I’ve spent every day since feeling shameful for being so blind and so easily coerced.

US election day rolled around, and I was filled with dread. Trump’s win felt like EU referendum morning all over again – magnified by a hundred. Although I never shared any of this rubbish with anybody, I feel partly responsible. It’s clear this terrible ideology has now gone mainstream.

It hit me like a ton of bricks. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/15/alt-right-manosphere-mainstream-politics-breitbart"]Online radicalisation of young white men[/url]. It’s here, it’s serious, and I was lucky to be able to snap out of it when I did. And if it can get somebody like me to swallow it – a lifelong liberal – I can’t imagine the damage it is doing overall.

It seemed so subtle – at no point did I think my casual and growing Islamophobia was genuine racism. The good news for me is that my journey toward the alt-right was mercifully brief: I never wanted to harm or abuse anybody verbally, it was all very low level – a creeping fear and bigotry that I won’t let infest me again. But I suspect you could, if you don’t catch it quickly, be guided into a much more overt and sinister hatred.

I haven’t yet told my wife that this happened, and I honestly don’t know how to. I need to apologise for what I said and tell her that I certainly don’t believe it. It is going to be a tough conversation and I’m not looking forward to it. I didn’t think this could happen to me. But it did and it will haunt me for a long time to come.
Last edited by Day Of The Rope; 5 months ago
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rasputshealthbar
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It’s sad to see how Nazisim is thrown about so casually these days. This isn’t it. Not saying it isn’t bad or morally justifiable but Christ, there’s surely a better term for it.
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Day Of The Rope
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(Original post by krissxkross)
It’s sad to see how Nazisim is thrown about so casually these days. This isn’t it. Not saying it isn’t bad or morally justifiable but Christ, there’s surely a better term for it.
It's literally too dangerous to ignore!
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I do not understand how you mention Nazism as the focal point of your journey when it really is Islamophobia...

Despite this, sounds like you fell into the web of extreme thinking, such an example is that if you reverse this around, i.e. a Muslim man watched Youtube videos describing the westerners as the ones not compatible with the world, they would share the same experience/school of thought as you.

It is just hatred for the sake of someone not sharing the same beliefs and ironically, indeed the extremists do share the same core belief - the concept that 'we are not the same' motion.

I am a Muslim myself, and this is not surprising. Brainwashing happens to people from every race and creed - this needs to be vetoed.
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Is this a copypasta I'm not aware of?
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(Original post by Day Of The Rope)
I am a happily attached, young white gender neutral. I grew up in a happy, Conservative household. I’ve spent my entire life – save the last four months – as a progressive liberal. All of my friends are very liberal or left-leaning centrists. I have always voted Liberal Democrat or Green. I voted remain in the referendum. The thought of racism in any form has always been abhorrent to me.

When leave won, I was devastated. I was curious as to the motives of leave voters. Surely they were not all racist, bigoted or hateful? I watched some debates on YouTube. Obvious points of concern about terrorism were brought up. A leaver cited https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2011/apr/12/atheism-myth-sam-harris"]Sam Harris[/url] as a source. I looked him up: this “intellectual, free-thinker” was very critical of Islam. Naturally my liberal kneejerk reaction was to be shocked, but I listened to his concerns and some of his debates.

This, I think, is where YouTube’s “suggested videos” can lead you down a rabbit hole. Moving on from Harris, I unlocked the Pandora’s box of “It’s not racist to criticise Islam!” content. Eventually I was introduced, by YouTube algorithms, to https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/20/milo-yiannopoulos-nero-permanently-banned-twitter"]Milo Yiannopoulos[/url] and various “anti-SJW” videos (SJW, or https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/apr/20/billy-corgan-compares-social-justice-warriors-kkk"]social justice warrior[/url], is a pejorative directed at progressives). They were shocking at first, but always presented as innocuous criticism from people claiming to be liberals themselves, or centrists, sometimes “just a regular conservative” – but never, ever identifying as the dreaded “alt-right”.

For three months I watched this stuff grow steadily more fearful of Islam. “Not Muslims,” they would usually say, “individual Muslims are fine.” But Islam was presented as a “threat to western civilisation”. Fear-mongering content was presented in a compelling way by charismatic people who would distance themselves from the very movement of which they were a part.

At the same time, the anti-SJW stuff also moved on to anti-feminism, men’s rights activists – all that stuff. I followed a lot of these people on Twitter, but never shared any of it. I just passively consumed it, because, deep down, I knew I was ashamed of what I was doing. I’d started to roll my eyes when my friends talked about liberal, progressive things. What was wrong with them? Did they not understand what being a real liberal was? All my friends were just SJWs. They didn’t know that free speech was under threat and that politically correct culture and censorship were the true problem.

On one occasion I even, I am ashamed to admit, very diplomatically expressed negative sentiments on Islam to my wife. Nothing “overtly racist”, just some of the “innocuous” type of things the YouTubers had presented: “Islam isn’t compatible with western civilisation.”
She was taken aback: “Isn’t that a bit … rightwing?”

I justified it: “Well, I’m more a left-leaning centrist. PC culture has gone too far, we should be able to discuss these things without shutting down the conversation by calling people racist, or bigots.”
The indoctrination was complete.

A protest against Donald Trump’s appointment of Steve Bannon – accused of being a white nationalist – as his chief strategist.

About a week before the US election, I heard one of these YouTubers use the phrase “red-pilled” – a term from the film The Matrix – in reference to people being awakened to the truth about the world and SJWs. Suddenly I thought: “This is exactly like a cult. What am I doing? I’m turning into an ********.”

I unsubscribed and unfollowed from everything, and told myself outright: “You’re becoming a racist. What you’re doing is turning you into a terrible, hateful person.” Until that moment I hadn’t even realised that “alt-right” was what I was becoming; I just thought I was a more open-minded person for tolerating these views.

It would take every swearword under the sun to describe how I now feel about tolerating such content and gradually accepting it as truth. I’ve spent every day since feeling shameful for being so blind and so easily coerced.

US election day rolled around, and I was filled with dread. Trump’s win felt like EU referendum morning all over again – magnified by a hundred. Although I never shared any of this rubbish with anybody, I feel partly responsible. It’s clear this terrible ideology has now gone mainstream.

It hit me like a ton of bricks. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/15/alt-right-manosphere-mainstream-politics-breitbart"]Online radicalisation of young white men[/url]. It’s here, it’s serious, and I was lucky to be able to snap out of it when I did. And if it can get somebody like me to swallow it – a lifelong liberal – I can’t imagine the damage it is doing overall.

It seemed so subtle – at no point did I think my casual and growing Islamophobia was genuine racism. The good news for me is that my journey toward the alt-right was mercifully brief: I never wanted to harm or abuse anybody verbally, it was all very low level – a creeping fear and bigotry that I won’t let infest me again. But I suspect you could, if you don’t catch it quickly, be guided into a much more overt and sinister hatred.

I haven’t yet told my wife that this happened, and I honestly don’t know how to. I need to apologise for what I said and tell her that I certainly don’t believe it. It is going to be a tough conversation and I’m not looking forward to it. I didn’t think this could happen to me. But it did and it will haunt me for a long time to come.
Oh bore off with your copy and paste post.

Btw Islam is a religion not a race.
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Andrew97
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TLDR.
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Humanist.
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Let's be clear here. There is nothing rational about Islamophobia. Treating Muslims poorly and constantly degrading their beliefs/way of life on every single media platform imaginable, simply because they are Muslim - is racism. It is really THAT simple. If someone gives a Muslim women wearing the hijab verbal abuse or a dirty look, sorry, but you are a racist. If someone assaults a Muslim woman wearing the hijab — which has recently happened in Toronto and about 10,000 other places — yeah, that's right, you are a racist.....and a CRIMINAL! Time to face the music.

Need more proof that Islamophobia is a form of cultural racism? Consider the experience of Inderjit Singh Mukker. Mukker was assaulted in September 2015 for “looking Muslim”; he was dragged out of his car and beaten to a pulp by a man screaming “you’re a terrorist, bin Laden!” The twist here is that Mukker is not even Muslim; he is Sikh. The perpetrator of this crime looked at Mukker’s turban and thought “he’s a Muslim. He’s dangerous.” A cultural symbol, in this case, was used as a signifier to judge an entire group of people, however wrongly. Is this racism? Most definitely. Even Sikhs suffer from Islamophobia.

Ultimately, the issue here is “racism without race,” as sociologist Eduardo Bonilla-Silva calls it. The more we assume that race is limited to skin color, the less we understand about contemporary racism faced by Muslims at home and abroad. Now is the time to teach youth that racism is much more than the white-black dichotomy. Racism is changing in its form, but the beast is still very much alive and well
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Kaffee_1998
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Yeah im not reading all that
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by Humanist.)
Let's be clear here. There is nothing rational about Islamophobia. Treating Muslims poorly and constantly degrading their beliefs/way of life on every single media platform imaginable, simply because they are Muslim - is racism. It is really THAT simple. If someone gives a Muslim women wearing the hijab verbal abuse or a dirty look, sorry, but you are a racist. If someone assaults a Muslim woman wearing the hijab — which has recently happened in Toronto and about 10,000 other places — yeah, that's right, you are a racist.....and a CRIMINAL! Time to face the music.

Need more proof that Islamophobia is a form of cultural racism? Consider the experience of Inderjit Singh Mukker. Mukker was assaulted in September 2015 for “looking Muslim”; he was dragged out of his car and beaten to a pulp by a man screaming “you’re a terrorist, bin Laden!” The twist here is that Mukker is not even Muslim; he is Sikh. The perpetrator of this crime looked at Mukker’s turban and thought “he’s a Muslim. He’s dangerous.” A cultural symbol, in this case, was used as a signifier to judge an entire group of people, however wrongly. Is this racism? Most definitely. Even Sikhs suffer from Islamophobia.

Ultimately, the issue here is “racism without race,” as sociologist Eduardo Bonilla-Silva calls it. The more we assume that race is limited to skin color, the less we understand about contemporary racism faced by Muslims at home and abroad. Now is the time to teach youth that racism is much more than the white-black dichotomy. Racism is changing in its form, but the beast is still very much alive and well
Or how about we keep the nuance in the debate, and don't over simplify things:

Racism - targeting someone due to their race. Race is a mixture of phsyscal and cultural characteristics
Islamaphobia - targgeting someone based on their religion and beliefs

Can the two be combined - yes. You can definetly have people who are both islamaphobes and racists.. and you can defiently have attacks on people that are both islamaphobic and racist.

But it is equally possible to:
a, have a racist attack on a muslim that is not islamaphobic
b, have an islamaphobic attack on someone that is not racist

given the possibility of both to occure, the need for seperate defintions remains. The only reason to push islamaphobia = racism univeraslly.. is agenda driven, to highten peoples outrage.

---

also: "degrading their beliefs" - is charged language and not useful in this discussion. The line between degrading and critisisng is a subjective one (as can be seen by the constant debates around what is islamaphobia). There are many occasions where it is very proppert to both critisise and degrade a persons beliefs and way of life - if you belief their way of life to be imoral and cuasing harm to others. Whether or not this is the case for islam is irrelivant, to that fact that you slyly put it in next to many accounts of physical and pratical discrimination, as if they are comparable.

---

also you don't need to exagerate. "10,000 other places". Yes some muslims face discrimination. No anti-muslim discrimination is not an epidemic that people need to panic about. In general islamic minorities are doing pretty well at the moment within other countries, they are growing.. slowly becoming more prosperous - they face record lows in discrimination (yes low. Not hight. Compare today to any time in modern-history, and negative opinions about islam are at record lows.. go back to the 80s, 50s, 30s etc.)

Overal your post is just sensationalist dramatasized nonsense that is meant entirely to provoke outrage.. to make people hate those who critisize islam, and to make islamic people feel victimised and like they are part of some large suffering group. We can have a rational discussion about islam, wesetern society and how they interact, but not if your so dramatic and so intent on raising tensions between groups.
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Davij038
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(Original post by Day Of The Rope)
It's literally too dangerous to ignore!
Q1- why is right wing videos on YouTube indoctrination, but not your earlier and or current liberal views?
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Davij038
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Listening to a gay Jewish man (milo) married to a black man: this turned OP into a Nazi , makes perfect sense actually
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(Original post by Humanist.)
Let's be clear here. There is nothing rational about Islamophobia. Treating Muslims poorly and constantly degrading their beliefs/way of life on every single media platform imaginable, simply because they are Muslim - is racism. It is really THAT simple. If someone gives a Muslim women wearing the hijab verbal abuse or a dirty look, sorry, but you are a racist. If someone assaults a Muslim woman wearing the hijab — which has recently happened in Toronto and about 10,000 other places — yeah, that's right, you are a racist.....and a CRIMINAL! Time to face the music.

Need more proof that Islamophobia is a form of cultural racism? Consider the experience of Inderjit Singh Mukker. Mukker was assaulted in September 2015 for “looking Muslim”; he was dragged out of his car and beaten to a pulp by a man screaming “you’re a terrorist, bin Laden!” The twist here is that Mukker is not even Muslim; he is Sikh. The perpetrator of this crime looked at Mukker’s turban and thought “he’s a Muslim. He’s dangerous.” A cultural symbol, in this case, was used as a signifier to judge an entire group of people, however wrongly. Is this racism? Most definitely. Even Sikhs suffer from Islamophobia.

Ultimately, the issue here is “racism without race,” as sociologist Eduardo Bonilla-Silva calls it. The more we assume that race is limited to skin color, the less we understand about contemporary racism faced by Muslims at home and abroad. Now is the time to teach youth that racism is much more than the white-black dichotomy. Racism is changing in its form, but the beast is still very much alive and well
I don’t like the way the Quran says x.

Then you are a racist....


Nope
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I actually think this a good way of thinking, don't think like they do but do acknowledge their fears and concerns are genuine, ignoring them clearly hasn't helped and they do have genuine worries which they deserve to discuss. Thing is people are so quick to call them the enemy and shut them down, they're deemed not worthy of democracy and aren't allowed a civil deabte/protest so they get filled with anger and feel like they're being oppressed and resort to extremes. Some people actually want to be oppressed or people of their cause to be oppressed because it's a path to empowerment, I imagine those pulling the strings want people of similar concerns to feel oppressed so they build up more anger and hence push the movement stronger.
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Drawing a purist distinction between racism and hate for a religion - Islam - is a weak argument, given that in the main locations we are dealing with - the UK, the US, Western Europe - most Muslims are brown or black people. The New Far Right have worked very hard to portray the New Islamophobia (there have been old ones as well) as non-racist and therefore OK - a beautiful trojan horse into racist triggering. It was no mistake that leading Tories and Kippers played the mass migration from Turkey card during the referendum - a direct dog whistle to racism ever-so-thinly dressed up as something else in the space for 'debate on immigration' opened by the white supremacists.

Regarding OP, the trails of recommends seen in YT and FB and elsewhere are at least partly gamed by the US New Right and their echelons. In the referendum run-up, Leave and their global allies in international finance capital and certain parts of industry that support Leave for commercial reasons (Tate & Lyle is an example) pushed vast amounts of money towards social media manipulation and it worked.
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Humanist.
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
Or how about we keep the nuance in the debate, and don't over simplify things:

Racism - targeting someone due to their race. Race is a mixture of phsyscal and cultural characteristics
Islamaphobia - targgeting someone based on their religion and beliefs

Can the two be combined - yes. You can definetly have people who are both islamaphobes and racists.. and you can defiently have attacks on people that are both islamaphobic and racist.

But it is equally possible to:
a, have a racist attack on a muslim that is not islamaphobic
b, have an islamaphobic attack on someone that is not racist

given the possibility of both to occure, the need for seperate defintions remains. The only reason to push islamaphobia = racism univeraslly.. is agenda driven, to highten peoples outrage.

---

also: "degrading their beliefs" - is charged language and not useful in this discussion. The line between degrading and critisisng is a subjective one (as can be seen by the constant debates around what is islamaphobia). There are many occasions where it is very proppert to both critisise and degrade a persons beliefs and way of life - if you belief their way of life to be imoral and cuasing harm to others. Whether or not this is the case for islam is irrelivant, to that fact that you slyly put it in next to many accounts of physical and pratical discrimination, as if they are comparable.

---

also you don't need to exagerate. "10,000 other places". Yes some muslims face discrimination. No anti-muslim discrimination is not an epidemic that people need to panic about. In general islamic minorities are doing pretty well at the moment within other countries, they are growing.. slowly becoming more prosperous - they face record lows in discrimination (yes low. Not hight. Compare today to any time in modern-history, and negative opinions about islam are at record lows.. go back to the 80s, 50s, 30s etc.)

Overal your post is just sensationalist dramatasized nonsense that is meant entirely to provoke outrage.. to make people hate those who critisize islam, and to make islamic people feel victimised and like they are part of some large suffering group. We can have a rational discussion about islam, wesetern society and how they interact, but not if your so dramatic and so intent on raising tensions between groups.

Or how about we call a spade a spade and stop sugar coating and downplaying things that are actually happening. Nobody is sensationalising anything. The OP is correct, there is an endless rabbit hole of hateful propaganda being dished around. Discrimination is very much a reality faced by many Muslims on a daily basis (and other minorities too). Also, Islamophobia and Xenophobia are offshoots of the same racist way of thinking. They are just the other side of the same coin.

]Actually NO, you don't get to decide what is moral and immoral. There is a reason why we have laws in our countries. Just so your aware, there are also Laws against hate-speech and racial/religious abuse, so it is not subjective at all, the laws are clear cut. The only difference here is that I understand and respect these laws, whereas people like yourself make up your own versions because your too bitter to accept these facts.

Overall, your points are irrelevant and laughable at best. The exaggerations are not meant to be taken literally. You should learn to read between the lines. The point is that these things happen quite often, a simple search on Google and you will find a multitude of results proving my point. To be fair, in reality it may even be a lot more than 10,000 since in the UK alone there has been a recorded increase of Islamophobic attacks by over 475% during the 2016 Brexit referendum compared to the previous year, and then it increased by a further 700% since the Manchester arena attack in May 2017 (Tellmama Report 2017).

]FYI There's nothing wrong with criticism, that was never an issue here. I am talking about real things like...

The fact that the majority of these attacks are on Muslim’s women, with ⅔ of the suspects being young white males.Yet no one talks about it, because apparently, Muslims need to learn how to take criticism. -_-

I'm talking about the fact that there are mass propaganda campaigns to make people like you believe the racist agenda. In fact, the University of California Berkeley’s Centre for Race and Gender named 74 groups it says contribute in some way to Islamophobia in the US. Of those groups, it says, the primary purpose of 33 groups “is to promote prejudice against, or hatred of, Islam and Muslims”. Said groups also had access to almost $206m of funding between 2008 and 2013. That is just in the USA, meanwhile there are groups all over the world with similar goals – UKIP, PEGIDA, EDL, Golden dawn, Front National / National Rally...and the list goes on.

Have you ever wondered why there are more than [/font][/size][size=2][font=Calibri, Calibri_MSFontService, sans-serif]1,000 Hollywood films depicting Arabs, yet 932 of these films depict them in a stereotypical or negative light? Think about it, Arabs/Muslims are always portrayed as the evil/bad-guy figures: the bearded, dark-skinned, turban-wearing terrorist or hostage takers. Only 12 films depicted these individuals in a positive way....but of course, its all fun and games, right?

And Let's not forget Social media, this one is relatively easy to prove....just scroll through the YouTube, Instagram, Facebook (etc.) comments sections while watching a random video and you will see a mountain of anti-Islam rhetoric.
Last edited by Humanist.; 5 months ago
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lol too much Man in the High Castle for one day I think...
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(Original post by Day Of The Rope)
I am a happily attached, young white gender neutral....
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