Who was worse - Stalin or Hitler?

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qwertyK
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In my opinion Hitler was far worse because Hitler was against people because of their race. Sure they say Stalin killed more people but that was indirectly. They died of other things such as starvation or other things
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gjd800
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Anybody that asks this question is worse than both combined and multiploied by pi.
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Nettled
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Ur late night thoughts are messed up..
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username2393237
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Are you drunk?
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peacocks777
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(Original post by qwertyK)
In my opinion Hitler was far worse because Hitler was against people because of their race. Sure they say Stalin killed more people but that was indirectly. They died of other things such as starvation or other things
Who was more popular?
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FlamingFlamango
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(Original post by gjd800)
Anybody that asks this question is worse than both combined and multiploied by pi.
No, it’s a reasonable question. They’re not saying that by default the other is good. We’re just exploring what can be comparatively worse. I think it’s a rather interesting question.
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FlamingFlamango
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I’ve studied hitler and am currently studying Stalin in great detail, and it’s honestly a hard question. I would probably say Hitler just because, he did end up starting world war 2 and his vision for the future was arguably much worse than the communist one- too much racial preference, and active selective persecution, which he actually made most of the German population believe unlike Russia.
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Ray_Shadows
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donald trump
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FlamingFlamango
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(Original post by Ray_Shadows)
donald trump
He’s too simple minded to even qualify. As awful as Hitler & Stalin may be, they were calculated masterminds.
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Lemon1806
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In terms of plain death count, stalin. But then you have to take into account other things too. Both had equally damaging childhoods so really neither gets more pity than the other (if getting any pity at all). Both manage to help their country’s economy if you’re looking at style of leadership.
Taking it from purely my own set of morals though I would say Hitler was ‘worse’ because of the reasons for his killing and also the awful human experiments that went on, but its a pretty difficult decision as they were both effective leaders and awful human beings.
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BismarckMM
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Many would argue that it would be Stalin as nobody was safe from his purges, as his closest advisors and friends were killed in a heartbeat if there was any reason for suspicion or for Stalin to consolidate his grip over the USSR. However, Hitler commited the worst human genocide in history against one specific race for no other reason than pure hatred so I'd say it would definetely be Hitler.
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gjd800
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(Original post by FlamingFlamango)
No, it’s a reasonable question. They’re not saying that by default the other is good. We’re just exploring what can be comparatively worse. I think it’s a rather interesting question.
Blah blah blah. I don't.
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Vinny C
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Gavriol Princip... caused the death of 70 million and ended the development of the third world. He died due to tuberculosis of the offending arm, Divine judgement!
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The RAR
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Stalin, sure Hitler is also horrible but Stalin literally killed everyone including his own people and as you said, ended up killing lots of people as a result of his policies
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Luke9380
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By far Stalin 100%, Stalin had no regard for peoples human life and only saw one thing, killed 20million of his own men just to get to berlin before the allies and win while sitting in his mansion in a communist regime where he should own as much as everyone else.
Hitler on the other hand actually 'made Germany great again' (Donald trump meme not intended) bringing Germany out of a massive economic depression, uniting the people and enabling the creating of many important capitalist products like the affordable car.
Finally, although there is no excuse for the ethnic genocide of peoples in those times it was common to 'hate the jews' infact as far as i recall Churchill and people alike did and Stalin also resettled land in the caucases and middle east (Kazakhstan e.t.c) to get Russian supremacy much like Germany did in Poland to gain German ethnic supremacy
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FloralHybrid
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(tried to edit this post like 4 times and it is not working r u ok TSR)
Last edited by FloralHybrid; 2 years ago
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ageshallnot
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(Original post by Luke9380)
By far Stalin 100%, Stalin had no regard for peoples human life and only saw one thing, killed 20million of his own men just to get to berlin before the allies and win while sitting in his mansion in a communist regime where he should own as much as everyone else.
Hitler on the other hand actually 'made Germany great again' (Donald trump meme not intended) bringing Germany out of a massive economic depression, uniting the people and enabling the creating of many important capitalist products like the affordable car.
Finally, although there is no excuse for the ethnic genocide of peoples in those times it was common to 'hate the jews' infact as far as i recall Churchill and people alike did and Stalin also resettled land in the caucases and middle east (Kazakhstan e.t.c) to get Russian supremacy much like Germany did in Poland to gain German ethnic supremacy
Stalin did not kill 20 million if his own people simply to get to Berlin. Yes, casualties were on that scale but they were killed by the Germans. And while Stalin was indeed indifferent to the loss of human life the USSR was embroiled in a savage war with a supposed ally who had attacked without warning.

Hitler's so called economic miracle was achieved by gearing the country for a war he desired and planned. As for the concept of an affordable car, Ford got there several years before and only about 200 VW Beetles were produced before production stopped in 1939.

And there is a vast difference between casual anti-Semitism and the deliberate destruction of millions of people.
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Luke9380
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(Original post by ageshallnot)
Stalin did not kill 20 million if his own people simply to get to Berlin. Yes, casualties were on that scale but they were killed by the Germans. And while Stalin was indeed indifferent to the loss of human life the USSR was embroiled in a savage war with a supposed ally who had attacked without warning.

Hitler's so called economic miracle was achieved by gearing the country for a war he desired and planned. As for the concept of an affordable car, Ford got there several years before and only about 200 VW Beetles were produced before production stopped in 1939.

And there is a vast difference between casual anti-Semitism and the deliberate destruction of millions of people.
Hitlers economic miracle was acheived from the idea of re-uniting all Germany peoples not invading Russia. Hitler invaded Russia for 3 main reasons: To fight against communism, for the oil in the Caucasus so he can sustain his empire he created and because he was afraid if he didnt invade Russia now then they'd invade him when they were much stronger later down the line. I guess you could also include The german Lebensraum war plan but I think of it as more of an excuse to continue expansion and by the looks of what ive found online it was created shortly before attacking USSR therefore wasnt an ultimate war goal instead was only added because they thought they were capable of doing so. Besides what other leaders can you think of that single handedly rescued a nation from such an economic depression to become one of the world superpowers again in 10 years or less

Yes i understand there is a difference between genocide and casual anti-semitism i'm not trying to say that he did nothing wrong but the racial prejudice was widespread among most european countries at those times.

And finally Stalin did kill 20million+ of his own people if not very close to that. He enacted order No.227 which stated not a step back in retreat to get to Berlin first killing millions as a result of this stupid order and imprisoning 994,300 (according to wikipedia) of his own soldiers at one point because of it. it is also estimated 14 million people were sent to the gulag and 'atleast 6 million people died as a result of their detention in the gulags' aswell as multiple famines:
1832-33 famine, 7milion dead because the ukranian food was given to the soldiers.
executions: 777,975
1946-47 famine: 1.5 million in addition to secondary population losses due to reduced fertility.
forced settlements: 5.87 million deported due to forced settlements
among many massacres e.t.c created by the nkvd.

All thats missing from Stalins regime is the concentration camps then he would be undoubtedly worse than Hitler
Last edited by Luke9380; 2 years ago
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ageshallnot
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(Original post by Luke9380)
Hitlers economic miracle was acheived from the idea of re-uniting all Germany peoples not invading Russia. Hitler invaded Russia for 3 main reasons: To fight against communism, for the oil in the Caucasus so he can sustain his empire he created and because he was afraid if he didnt invade Russia now then they'd invade him when they were much stronger later down the line. I guess you could also include The german Lebensraum war plan but I think of it as more of an excuse to continue expansion and by the looks of what ive found online it was created shortly before attacking USSR therefore wasnt an ultimate war goal instead was only added because they thought they were capable of doing so. Besides what other leaders can you think of that single handedly rescued a nation from such an economic depression to become one of the world superpowers again in 10 years or less

Yes i understand there is a difference between genocide and casual anti-semitism i'm not trying to say that he did nothing wrong but the racial prejudice was widespread among most european countries at those times.

And finally Stalin did kill 20million+ of his own people if not very close to that. He enacted order No.227 which stated not a step back in retreat to get to Berlin first killing millions as a result of this stupid order and imprisoning 994,300 (according to wikipedia) of his own soldiers at one point because of it. it is also estimated 14 million people were sent to the gulag and 'atleast 6 million people died as a result of their detention in the gulags' aswell as multiple famines:
1832-33 famine, 7milion dead because the ukranian food was given to the soldiers.
executions: 777,975
1946-47 famine: 1.5 million in addition to secondary population losses due to reduced fertility.
forced settlements: 5.87 million deported due to forced settlements
among many massacres e.t.c created by the nkvd.

All thats missing from Stalins regime is the concentration camps then he would be undoubtedly worse than Hitler
I never said anything about the German 'economic miracle' being the result of invading Russia - I have no idea why you say that. However, the German economic turnaround in the 1930s under the Nazis was largely the result of state spending on remilitarisation - and to some extent looting the assets of the countries the Nazis annexed. That is not at all the same as reuniting the German people.

Your arguments as to why Hitler invaded the USSR strengthen my argument rather than your own. To fight against communism? Why did he need to do that apart from his own political ambitions? Being anti-communist hardly gives anyone the right to go around launching invasions. Yes, he wanted the Caucasus oil but what right did he have to take it? None, of course. And fear of being invaded later by the USSR? Er, what's the relevance of that? There's no particular evidence afaik that the USSR had plans to invade Germany, even after they had jointly carved up Poland. Hitler, however, had long laid down that Germany was going to take vast swathes of eastern European territory - the lebensraum which you are completely incorrect to dismiss as a 'late addition'. Lebensraum was in fact key to Hitler's whole political outlook and was laid out in Mein Kampf and his 'Second Book' - including his view that it could only be achieved by military invasion.

Your argument about the 20 million people has changed.You originally said it was because of Stalin's desire to get to Berlin first, which was palpably incorrect. However, if you want to criticise Stalin for a 'no retreat' order you should study Hitler's similar decisions which were constant and largely pointless. I have no particular issue with your totals of deaths from other reasons.
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Luke9380
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(Original post by ageshallnot)
I never said anything about the German 'economic miracle' being the result of invading Russia - I have no idea why you say that. However, the German economic turnaround in the 1930s under the Nazis was largely the result of state spending on remilitarisation - and to some extent looting the assets of the countries the Nazis annexed. That is not at all the same as reuniting the German people.

Your arguments as to why Hitler invaded the USSR strengthen my argument rather than your own. To fight against communism? Why did he need to do that apart from his own political ambitions? Being anti-communist hardly gives anyone the right to go around launching invasions. Yes, he wanted the Caucasus oil but what right did he have to take it? None, of course. And fear of being invaded later by the USSR? Er, what's the relevance of that? There's no particular evidence afaik that the USSR had plans to invade Germany, even after they had jointly carved up Poland. Hitler, however, had long laid down that Germany was going to take vast swathes of eastern European territory - the lebensraum which you are completely incorrect to dismiss as a 'late addition'. Lebensraum was in fact key to Hitler's whole political outlook and was laid out in Mein Kampf and his 'Second Book' - including his view that it could only be achieved by military invasion.

Your argument about the 20 million people has changed.You originally said it was because of Stalin's desire to get to Berlin first, which was palpably incorrect. However, if you want to criticise Stalin for a 'no retreat' order you should study Hitler's similar decisions which were constant and largely pointless. I have no particular issue with your totals of deaths from other reasons.
Germany because a developed enough nation to wipe out France in six weeks. Half of that was because of their industrial output on millitary supplies like the tanks used to blitzkrieg which is why I meant before the went to war.
My bad on the 'economic miracle' part i must've misunderstood. But you cant think of the sole reason why Germany was economically revived was because of remilitarisation, There was multiple infrastructure projects, Privatization of shipyards, railway lines, welfare organizations and Banks, banning trade unions and re building Germany. There is no doubt Hitler was a great leader which is why I think hes much better than Stalin. Atleast he done some good.

It was well known that the USSR and Germany never particularly liked each other just the Molotov Ribbentrop pact was a means to non aggression and to stop hostilities between the two. Whos to say Stalin wouldnt break it when he felt like it too? They are both the same workhorse. Fear of an ideology was the reason for many invasions around the world. Specifically things like Vietnam from USA, Korea from China and USA ultimately fighting a proxy war, the tension with USA and CUBA along with. As much as it is not a very good reason to launch an invasion it is more than valid. I cant say much on the lebensraum part because I am not nearly knowledgable to argue about that fact so I will accept that I was wrong on that but nonetheless.

Finally I did not mean that Stalin killed 20 million BECAUSE of his desire to get to Berlin first, I meant a large majority of the soldiers casualties were because of that but overall statistics show he killed around 20million of his own people which is why I stated all the famines e.t.c. And I do not dispute that Germany didnt have similar decisions and orders enacted but Germany had a quarter the casualties than stalin because as much as he hated the 'Untermenschen' he cared for his own people unlike Stalin who had no bias towards the atrocities he had committed.
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