The Great University Con - universities are broken and students betrayed
firstly idk what happened to original thread seem to get removed or some chit
I have been reading the book: The Great University Con: How we broke our universities and betrayed a generation as i recently graduated and feel abit short changed. And the ideas the author suggests are pretty eye opening. I thought I’d invite those thinking about uni to consider these ideas as there isnt really a balance here pro uni not much else
I copied them out a book so these aren't my ideas
Background
30 years ago 770,000 (1 in 6 school leavers) went to university now its 2.3 million (almost half). The theory is more people who go to university the better society will be (economic, cultural, social benefits). However, the huge growth is not the great success that politicians and universities would have us believe
Graduates
Encouraged to spend money that they didn’t have in pursuit of graduate careers that many will never achieve
Made to feel its uni or bust
Shortage of STEM graduates but astonishing oversupply in graduates in subjects where there is little or no demand for in UK labour market
A large over supply of graduates in vocational subjects (law, psychology, forensic sciences, physiotherapy, social work). <20% will train as lawyer, social worker, physiologist etc
Complaints and legal action increase due to false advertising and misleading as uni life and life after graduation doesn’t meet expectations
Universities
Adopted mass production model focusing on average student not individual. For the bright student interested in the subject this approach is dissatisfying. For the less able face little academic support
Don’t provide objective course information but offer promotional material on life style but light on contact hours, seminar sizes, teachers etc
Unconditional offers – gone up staggeringly in last few years basically a bribe ‘study here don’t worry about a-levels results’
Clearing - for people who shouldn’t be going to university to study courses university shouldn’t be offering i.e. the ‘worst degrees’ possible plenty of debt no return
Haven’t produced more people with inquisitive, independent, open, and questioning minds, the opposite has happened through self-censorship and increasing demand for safe spaces
Academics
Deteriorating professional environment, declining pay, greater stress and erosion of academic culture and values
Cater for a much greater ability range. Not an expert transmitting info but required to think like a school teacher pitching material at the pace of the slowest member
Bullied into lenient marking
Vice chancellors pay has rocketed relative to anyone else
Economic benefits
No real increase in UK productivity/ output in last 30 years
GDP and economic growth have broadly continued at the same pre-expansion rates
Falling standards
Degrees have been ‘dumbed down’
Degrees are easier to pass with more getting 1sts and 2:1s. 3x more 1sts than 30 years ago
Significant decline in teaching resource per student (higher class sizes, lower contact hours etc) yet results have increased
Many reasons, some are reduction in the average quality of domestic and international student as money is more important than A-Level grades (51% less than D grades, massive international fees). Don’t fail as don’t get their money. If 67% achieve first or 2:1s then 67% of students are parents are unlikely to complain
Syllabus is reduced therefore decline in the skills and knowledge provided by degrees vs the past
Jobs
League tables do matter. Oxbridge students starting salary 42% higher and significantly lower unemployment than post 92 Unis
Average grad salary fell from 24k in 07 to 22k in 14
Employers looking at A-levels as more reliable way to differentiate and even employing graduates abroad as UK grades are of less quality
Graduates haven’t learnt the skills wanted or needed by employers
Number of recent grads in non- grad jobs has risen from 37% in 2001 to 47% in 2013
99% in employment in 6 months stats are warped to point is bs
Graduate premium
Gov suggested at 100k (originally 400k) i.e. 100k/ years of working life - tax but this is warped
Graduate return vary hugely depending an individual student sex, university, degree classification and subject
There is a huge variation of starting salaries depending on what studied. Medicine and dentistry the most by far
47% of graduates in low skilled jobs by definition carry no premium
Debt is increasing but many grads now see minimal (history, philosophy etc) or even negative (media studies etc) monetary returns from their degrees
Funding
It’s not 27k its 27k + inflation + maintenance loans + over drafts/other loans + crippling compound interest = 50k+
Most grads will not repay their loans
Billions taken away from NHS, defence, social care, policing etc and invested in students who add little value to society
Taxpayers face an enormous liability for unpaid loans
Big gap between maintenance loan and actual money need resulting in using family funds money they simply don’t have and almost normal to have to result to prostitution
Students number are likely to peak then decline resulting in unis will facing substantial funding gap threatening many with bankruptcy
Grads will have reduced disposal income mean that young adults less able to move away from home, running a car, getting house, family, delayed or prevented
Only one in 10 people grads since 2001 own their home with 58% saying unable to purchase because of their debts
Mental health
Being a student is less enjoyable and more stressful than previously due to Due to massive debt, no low employment prospects. Increase in student numbers alienating and isolating
Student mental health found a rapid increase in demand for counselling
Suicide rate of students increase by 56% in ten years to 2016 over taking the suicide rate for young people in general population for first time
I have been reading the book: The Great University Con: How we broke our universities and betrayed a generation as i recently graduated and feel abit short changed. And the ideas the author suggests are pretty eye opening. I thought I’d invite those thinking about uni to consider these ideas as there isnt really a balance here pro uni not much else
I copied them out a book so these aren't my ideas
Background
30 years ago 770,000 (1 in 6 school leavers) went to university now its 2.3 million (almost half). The theory is more people who go to university the better society will be (economic, cultural, social benefits). However, the huge growth is not the great success that politicians and universities would have us believe
Graduates
Encouraged to spend money that they didn’t have in pursuit of graduate careers that many will never achieve
Made to feel its uni or bust
Shortage of STEM graduates but astonishing oversupply in graduates in subjects where there is little or no demand for in UK labour market
A large over supply of graduates in vocational subjects (law, psychology, forensic sciences, physiotherapy, social work). <20% will train as lawyer, social worker, physiologist etc
Complaints and legal action increase due to false advertising and misleading as uni life and life after graduation doesn’t meet expectations
Universities
Adopted mass production model focusing on average student not individual. For the bright student interested in the subject this approach is dissatisfying. For the less able face little academic support
Don’t provide objective course information but offer promotional material on life style but light on contact hours, seminar sizes, teachers etc
Unconditional offers – gone up staggeringly in last few years basically a bribe ‘study here don’t worry about a-levels results’
Clearing - for people who shouldn’t be going to university to study courses university shouldn’t be offering i.e. the ‘worst degrees’ possible plenty of debt no return
Haven’t produced more people with inquisitive, independent, open, and questioning minds, the opposite has happened through self-censorship and increasing demand for safe spaces
Academics
Deteriorating professional environment, declining pay, greater stress and erosion of academic culture and values
Cater for a much greater ability range. Not an expert transmitting info but required to think like a school teacher pitching material at the pace of the slowest member
Bullied into lenient marking
Vice chancellors pay has rocketed relative to anyone else
Economic benefits
No real increase in UK productivity/ output in last 30 years
GDP and economic growth have broadly continued at the same pre-expansion rates
Falling standards
Degrees have been ‘dumbed down’
Degrees are easier to pass with more getting 1sts and 2:1s. 3x more 1sts than 30 years ago
Significant decline in teaching resource per student (higher class sizes, lower contact hours etc) yet results have increased
Many reasons, some are reduction in the average quality of domestic and international student as money is more important than A-Level grades (51% less than D grades, massive international fees). Don’t fail as don’t get their money. If 67% achieve first or 2:1s then 67% of students are parents are unlikely to complain
Syllabus is reduced therefore decline in the skills and knowledge provided by degrees vs the past
Jobs
League tables do matter. Oxbridge students starting salary 42% higher and significantly lower unemployment than post 92 Unis
Average grad salary fell from 24k in 07 to 22k in 14
Employers looking at A-levels as more reliable way to differentiate and even employing graduates abroad as UK grades are of less quality
Graduates haven’t learnt the skills wanted or needed by employers
Number of recent grads in non- grad jobs has risen from 37% in 2001 to 47% in 2013
99% in employment in 6 months stats are warped to point is bs
Graduate premium
Gov suggested at 100k (originally 400k) i.e. 100k/ years of working life - tax but this is warped
Graduate return vary hugely depending an individual student sex, university, degree classification and subject
There is a huge variation of starting salaries depending on what studied. Medicine and dentistry the most by far
47% of graduates in low skilled jobs by definition carry no premium
Debt is increasing but many grads now see minimal (history, philosophy etc) or even negative (media studies etc) monetary returns from their degrees
Funding
It’s not 27k its 27k + inflation + maintenance loans + over drafts/other loans + crippling compound interest = 50k+
Most grads will not repay their loans
Billions taken away from NHS, defence, social care, policing etc and invested in students who add little value to society
Taxpayers face an enormous liability for unpaid loans
Big gap between maintenance loan and actual money need resulting in using family funds money they simply don’t have and almost normal to have to result to prostitution
Students number are likely to peak then decline resulting in unis will facing substantial funding gap threatening many with bankruptcy
Grads will have reduced disposal income mean that young adults less able to move away from home, running a car, getting house, family, delayed or prevented
Only one in 10 people grads since 2001 own their home with 58% saying unable to purchase because of their debts
Mental health
Being a student is less enjoyable and more stressful than previously due to Due to massive debt, no low employment prospects. Increase in student numbers alienating and isolating
Student mental health found a rapid increase in demand for counselling
Suicide rate of students increase by 56% in ten years to 2016 over taking the suicide rate for young people in general population for first time
silence cos its true but no one is man enough to admit it. i am man enough i went to graduated and the moment i got my certificate i realised i fcked up the worst decision i ever made
Original post by ol24
silence cos its true but no one is man enough to admit it. i am man enough i went to graduated and the moment i got my certificate i realised i fcked up the worst decision i ever made
What uni did you go to?
Original post by Professional G
What uni did you go to?
i went to a top 30 uni one that is rising quick. aint about me these arent my ideas but an invitation to view said ideas
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by ol24
silence cos its true but no one is man enough to admit it. i am man enough i went to graduated and the moment i got my certificate i realised i fcked up the worst decision i ever made
A lot of people probably agree with a lot of your post. But this topic is quite commonly discussed here (on various sub-forums), and there just probably just hasn't been much appetite to discuss it again, over the last 15 hours its been posted.
what does the medical community think about mh rates are going up cos debt, low/none employment prospects etc not cos millennials are snowflakes what have you
consolidation in a single thread otherwise scattered willy nilly
Original post by Smack
A lot of people probably agree with a lot of your post. But this topic is quite commonly discussed here (on various sub-forums), and there just probably just hasn't been much appetite to discuss it again, over the last 15 hours its been posted.
consolidation in a single thread otherwise scattered willy nilly
Original post by ol24
consolidation in a single thread otherwise scattered willy nilly
How would you change the current system then?
Original post by username4288010
firstly idk what happened to original thread seem to get removed or some chit
I have been reading the book: The Great University Con: How we broke our universities and betrayed a generation as i recently graduated and feel abit short changed. And the ideas the author suggests are pretty eye opening. I thought I’d invite those thinking about uni to consider these ideas as there isnt really a balance here pro uni not much else
I copied them out a book so these aren't my ideas
Background
30 years ago 770,000 (1 in 6 school leavers) went to university now its 2.3 million (almost half). The theory is more people who go to university the better society will be (economic, cultural, social benefits). However, the huge growth is not the great success that politicians and universities would have us believe
Graduates
Encouraged to spend money that they didn’t have in pursuit of graduate careers that many will never achieve
Made to feel its uni or bust
Shortage of STEM graduates but astonishing oversupply in graduates in subjects where there is little or no demand for in UK labour market
A large over supply of graduates in vocational subjects (law, psychology, forensic sciences, physiotherapy, social work). <20% will train as lawyer, social worker, physiologist etc
Complaints and legal action increase due to false advertising and misleading as uni life and life after graduation doesn’t meet expectations
Universities
Adopted mass production model focusing on average student not individual. For the bright student interested in the subject this approach is dissatisfying. For the less able face little academic support
Don’t provide objective course information but offer promotional material on life style but light on contact hours, seminar sizes, teachers etc
Unconditional offers – gone up staggeringly in last few years basically a bribe ‘study here don’t worry about a-levels results’
Clearing - for people who shouldn’t be going to university to study courses university shouldn’t be offering i.e. the ‘worst degrees’ possible plenty of debt no return
Haven’t produced more people with inquisitive, independent, open, and questioning minds, the opposite has happened through self-censorship and increasing demand for safe spaces
Academics
Deteriorating professional environment, declining pay, greater stress and erosion of academic culture and values
Cater for a much greater ability range. Not an expert transmitting info but required to think like a school teacher pitching material at the pace of the slowest member
Bullied into lenient marking
Vice chancellors pay has rocketed relative to anyone else
Economic benefits
No real increase in UK productivity/ output in last 30 years
GDP and economic growth have broadly continued at the same pre-expansion rates
Falling standards
Degrees have been ‘dumbed down’
Degrees are easier to pass with more getting 1sts and 2:1s. 3x more 1sts than 30 years ago
Significant decline in teaching resource per student (higher class sizes, lower contact hours etc) yet results have increased
Many reasons, some are reduction in the average quality of domestic and international student as money is more important than A-Level grades (51% less than D grades, massive international fees). Don’t fail as don’t get their money. If 67% achieve first or 2:1s then 67% of students are parents are unlikely to complain
Syllabus is reduced therefore decline in the skills and knowledge provided by degrees vs the past
Jobs
League tables do matter. Oxbridge students starting salary 42% higher and significantly lower unemployment than post 92 Unis
Average grad salary fell from 24k in 07 to 22k in 14
Employers looking at A-levels as more reliable way to differentiate and even employing graduates abroad as UK grades are of less quality
Graduates haven’t learnt the skills wanted or needed by employers
Number of recent grads in non- grad jobs has risen from 37% in 2001 to 47% in 2013
99% in employment in 6 months stats are warped to point is bs
Graduate premium
Gov suggested at 100k (originally 400k) i.e. 100k/ years of working life - tax but this is warped
Graduate return vary hugely depending an individual student sex, university, degree classification and subject
There is a huge variation of starting salaries depending on what studied. Medicine and dentistry the most by far
47% of graduates in low skilled jobs by definition carry no premium
Debt is increasing but many grads now see minimal (history, philosophy etc) or even negative (media studies etc) monetary returns from their degrees
Funding
It’s not 27k its 27k + inflation + maintenance loans + over drafts/other loans + crippling compound interest = 50k+
Most grads will not repay their loans
Billions taken away from NHS, defence, social care, policing etc and invested in students who add little value to society
Taxpayers face an enormous liability for unpaid loans
Big gap between maintenance loan and actual money need resulting in using family funds money they simply don’t have and almost normal to have to result to prostitution
Students number are likely to peak then decline resulting in unis will facing substantial funding gap threatening many with bankruptcy
Grads will have reduced disposal income mean that young adults less able to move away from home, running a car, getting house, family, delayed or prevented
Only one in 10 people grads since 2001 own their home with 58% saying unable to purchase because of their debts
Mental health
Being a student is less enjoyable and more stressful than previously due to Due to massive debt, no low employment prospects. Increase in student numbers alienating and isolating
Student mental health found a rapid increase in demand for counselling
Suicide rate of students increase by 56% in ten years to 2016 over taking the suicide rate for young people in general population for first time
I have been reading the book: The Great University Con: How we broke our universities and betrayed a generation as i recently graduated and feel abit short changed. And the ideas the author suggests are pretty eye opening. I thought I’d invite those thinking about uni to consider these ideas as there isnt really a balance here pro uni not much else
I copied them out a book so these aren't my ideas
Background
30 years ago 770,000 (1 in 6 school leavers) went to university now its 2.3 million (almost half). The theory is more people who go to university the better society will be (economic, cultural, social benefits). However, the huge growth is not the great success that politicians and universities would have us believe
Graduates
Encouraged to spend money that they didn’t have in pursuit of graduate careers that many will never achieve
Made to feel its uni or bust
Shortage of STEM graduates but astonishing oversupply in graduates in subjects where there is little or no demand for in UK labour market
A large over supply of graduates in vocational subjects (law, psychology, forensic sciences, physiotherapy, social work). <20% will train as lawyer, social worker, physiologist etc
Complaints and legal action increase due to false advertising and misleading as uni life and life after graduation doesn’t meet expectations
Universities
Adopted mass production model focusing on average student not individual. For the bright student interested in the subject this approach is dissatisfying. For the less able face little academic support
Don’t provide objective course information but offer promotional material on life style but light on contact hours, seminar sizes, teachers etc
Unconditional offers – gone up staggeringly in last few years basically a bribe ‘study here don’t worry about a-levels results’
Clearing - for people who shouldn’t be going to university to study courses university shouldn’t be offering i.e. the ‘worst degrees’ possible plenty of debt no return
Haven’t produced more people with inquisitive, independent, open, and questioning minds, the opposite has happened through self-censorship and increasing demand for safe spaces
Academics
Deteriorating professional environment, declining pay, greater stress and erosion of academic culture and values
Cater for a much greater ability range. Not an expert transmitting info but required to think like a school teacher pitching material at the pace of the slowest member
Bullied into lenient marking
Vice chancellors pay has rocketed relative to anyone else
Economic benefits
No real increase in UK productivity/ output in last 30 years
GDP and economic growth have broadly continued at the same pre-expansion rates
Falling standards
Degrees have been ‘dumbed down’
Degrees are easier to pass with more getting 1sts and 2:1s. 3x more 1sts than 30 years ago
Significant decline in teaching resource per student (higher class sizes, lower contact hours etc) yet results have increased
Many reasons, some are reduction in the average quality of domestic and international student as money is more important than A-Level grades (51% less than D grades, massive international fees). Don’t fail as don’t get their money. If 67% achieve first or 2:1s then 67% of students are parents are unlikely to complain
Syllabus is reduced therefore decline in the skills and knowledge provided by degrees vs the past
Jobs
League tables do matter. Oxbridge students starting salary 42% higher and significantly lower unemployment than post 92 Unis
Average grad salary fell from 24k in 07 to 22k in 14
Employers looking at A-levels as more reliable way to differentiate and even employing graduates abroad as UK grades are of less quality
Graduates haven’t learnt the skills wanted or needed by employers
Number of recent grads in non- grad jobs has risen from 37% in 2001 to 47% in 2013
99% in employment in 6 months stats are warped to point is bs
Graduate premium
Gov suggested at 100k (originally 400k) i.e. 100k/ years of working life - tax but this is warped
Graduate return vary hugely depending an individual student sex, university, degree classification and subject
There is a huge variation of starting salaries depending on what studied. Medicine and dentistry the most by far
47% of graduates in low skilled jobs by definition carry no premium
Debt is increasing but many grads now see minimal (history, philosophy etc) or even negative (media studies etc) monetary returns from their degrees
Funding
It’s not 27k its 27k + inflation + maintenance loans + over drafts/other loans + crippling compound interest = 50k+
Most grads will not repay their loans
Billions taken away from NHS, defence, social care, policing etc and invested in students who add little value to society
Taxpayers face an enormous liability for unpaid loans
Big gap between maintenance loan and actual money need resulting in using family funds money they simply don’t have and almost normal to have to result to prostitution
Students number are likely to peak then decline resulting in unis will facing substantial funding gap threatening many with bankruptcy
Grads will have reduced disposal income mean that young adults less able to move away from home, running a car, getting house, family, delayed or prevented
Only one in 10 people grads since 2001 own their home with 58% saying unable to purchase because of their debts
Mental health
Being a student is less enjoyable and more stressful than previously due to Due to massive debt, no low employment prospects. Increase in student numbers alienating and isolating
Student mental health found a rapid increase in demand for counselling
Suicide rate of students increase by 56% in ten years to 2016 over taking the suicide rate for young people in general population for first time
Its wrong to say it was easier 30 years ago. I graduated in 1988 and it was tough to get into a graduate scheme or graduate level job. I did a STEM degree in what became a RG university.
The big difference is I did not have to get a loan for fees or living costs, that was already paid for by the govt. Fewer people went to universities and polys back then because fewer jobs required degrees. Degree inflation have meant more jobs that did not require degrees 30 years ago now do.
Original post by username4288010
firstly idk what happened to original thread seem to get removed or some chit
I have been reading the book: The Great University Con: How we broke our universities and betrayed a generation as i recently graduated and feel abit short changed. And the ideas the author suggests are pretty eye opening. I thought I’d invite those thinking about uni to consider these ideas as there isnt really a balance here pro uni not much else
I copied them out a book so these aren't my ideas
Background
30 years ago 770,000 (1 in 6 school leavers) went to university now its 2.3 million (almost half). The theory is more people who go to university the better society will be (economic, cultural, social benefits). However, the huge growth is not the great success that politicians and universities would have us believe
Graduates
Encouraged to spend money that they didn’t have in pursuit of graduate careers that many will never achieve
Made to feel its uni or bust
Shortage of STEM graduates but astonishing oversupply in graduates in subjects where there is little or no demand for in UK labour market
A large over supply of graduates in vocational subjects (law, psychology, forensic sciences, physiotherapy, social work). <20% will train as lawyer, social worker, physiologist etc
Complaints and legal action increase due to false advertising and misleading as uni life and life after graduation doesn’t meet expectations
Universities
Adopted mass production model focusing on average student not individual. For the bright student interested in the subject this approach is dissatisfying. For the less able face little academic support
Don’t provide objective course information but offer promotional material on life style but light on contact hours, seminar sizes, teachers etc
Unconditional offers – gone up staggeringly in last few years basically a bribe ‘study here don’t worry about a-levels results’
Clearing - for people who shouldn’t be going to university to study courses university shouldn’t be offering i.e. the ‘worst degrees’ possible plenty of debt no return
Haven’t produced more people with inquisitive, independent, open, and questioning minds, the opposite has happened through self-censorship and increasing demand for safe spaces
Academics
Deteriorating professional environment, declining pay, greater stress and erosion of academic culture and values
Cater for a much greater ability range. Not an expert transmitting info but required to think like a school teacher pitching material at the pace of the slowest member
Bullied into lenient marking
Vice chancellors pay has rocketed relative to anyone else
Economic benefits
No real increase in UK productivity/ output in last 30 years
GDP and economic growth have broadly continued at the same pre-expansion rates
Falling standards
Degrees have been ‘dumbed down’
Degrees are easier to pass with more getting 1sts and 2:1s. 3x more 1sts than 30 years ago
Significant decline in teaching resource per student (higher class sizes, lower contact hours etc) yet results have increased
Many reasons, some are reduction in the average quality of domestic and international student as money is more important than A-Level grades (51% less than D grades, massive international fees). Don’t fail as don’t get their money. If 67% achieve first or 2:1s then 67% of students are parents are unlikely to complain
Syllabus is reduced therefore decline in the skills and knowledge provided by degrees vs the past
Jobs
League tables do matter. Oxbridge students starting salary 42% higher and significantly lower unemployment than post 92 Unis
Average grad salary fell from 24k in 07 to 22k in 14
Employers looking at A-levels as more reliable way to differentiate and even employing graduates abroad as UK grades are of less quality
Graduates haven’t learnt the skills wanted or needed by employers
Number of recent grads in non- grad jobs has risen from 37% in 2001 to 47% in 2013
99% in employment in 6 months stats are warped to point is bs
Graduate premium
Gov suggested at 100k (originally 400k) i.e. 100k/ years of working life - tax but this is warped
Graduate return vary hugely depending an individual student sex, university, degree classification and subject
There is a huge variation of starting salaries depending on what studied. Medicine and dentistry the most by far
47% of graduates in low skilled jobs by definition carry no premium
Debt is increasing but many grads now see minimal (history, philosophy etc) or even negative (media studies etc) monetary returns from their degrees
Funding
It’s not 27k its 27k + inflation + maintenance loans + over drafts/other loans + crippling compound interest = 50k+
Most grads will not repay their loans
Billions taken away from NHS, defence, social care, policing etc and invested in students who add little value to society
Taxpayers face an enormous liability for unpaid loans
Big gap between maintenance loan and actual money need resulting in using family funds money they simply don’t have and almost normal to have to result to prostitution
Students number are likely to peak then decline resulting in unis will facing substantial funding gap threatening many with bankruptcy
Grads will have reduced disposal income mean that young adults less able to move away from home, running a car, getting house, family, delayed or prevented
Only one in 10 people grads since 2001 own their home with 58% saying unable to purchase because of their debts
Mental health
Being a student is less enjoyable and more stressful than previously due to Due to massive debt, no low employment prospects. Increase in student numbers alienating and isolating
Student mental health found a rapid increase in demand for counselling
Suicide rate of students increase by 56% in ten years to 2016 over taking the suicide rate for young people in general population for first time
I have been reading the book: The Great University Con: How we broke our universities and betrayed a generation as i recently graduated and feel abit short changed. And the ideas the author suggests are pretty eye opening. I thought I’d invite those thinking about uni to consider these ideas as there isnt really a balance here pro uni not much else
I copied them out a book so these aren't my ideas
Background
30 years ago 770,000 (1 in 6 school leavers) went to university now its 2.3 million (almost half). The theory is more people who go to university the better society will be (economic, cultural, social benefits). However, the huge growth is not the great success that politicians and universities would have us believe
Graduates
Encouraged to spend money that they didn’t have in pursuit of graduate careers that many will never achieve
Made to feel its uni or bust
Shortage of STEM graduates but astonishing oversupply in graduates in subjects where there is little or no demand for in UK labour market
A large over supply of graduates in vocational subjects (law, psychology, forensic sciences, physiotherapy, social work). <20% will train as lawyer, social worker, physiologist etc
Complaints and legal action increase due to false advertising and misleading as uni life and life after graduation doesn’t meet expectations
Universities
Adopted mass production model focusing on average student not individual. For the bright student interested in the subject this approach is dissatisfying. For the less able face little academic support
Don’t provide objective course information but offer promotional material on life style but light on contact hours, seminar sizes, teachers etc
Unconditional offers – gone up staggeringly in last few years basically a bribe ‘study here don’t worry about a-levels results’
Clearing - for people who shouldn’t be going to university to study courses university shouldn’t be offering i.e. the ‘worst degrees’ possible plenty of debt no return
Haven’t produced more people with inquisitive, independent, open, and questioning minds, the opposite has happened through self-censorship and increasing demand for safe spaces
Academics
Deteriorating professional environment, declining pay, greater stress and erosion of academic culture and values
Cater for a much greater ability range. Not an expert transmitting info but required to think like a school teacher pitching material at the pace of the slowest member
Bullied into lenient marking
Vice chancellors pay has rocketed relative to anyone else
Economic benefits
No real increase in UK productivity/ output in last 30 years
GDP and economic growth have broadly continued at the same pre-expansion rates
Falling standards
Degrees have been ‘dumbed down’
Degrees are easier to pass with more getting 1sts and 2:1s. 3x more 1sts than 30 years ago
Significant decline in teaching resource per student (higher class sizes, lower contact hours etc) yet results have increased
Many reasons, some are reduction in the average quality of domestic and international student as money is more important than A-Level grades (51% less than D grades, massive international fees). Don’t fail as don’t get their money. If 67% achieve first or 2:1s then 67% of students are parents are unlikely to complain
Syllabus is reduced therefore decline in the skills and knowledge provided by degrees vs the past
Jobs
League tables do matter. Oxbridge students starting salary 42% higher and significantly lower unemployment than post 92 Unis
Average grad salary fell from 24k in 07 to 22k in 14
Employers looking at A-levels as more reliable way to differentiate and even employing graduates abroad as UK grades are of less quality
Graduates haven’t learnt the skills wanted or needed by employers
Number of recent grads in non- grad jobs has risen from 37% in 2001 to 47% in 2013
99% in employment in 6 months stats are warped to point is bs
Graduate premium
Gov suggested at 100k (originally 400k) i.e. 100k/ years of working life - tax but this is warped
Graduate return vary hugely depending an individual student sex, university, degree classification and subject
There is a huge variation of starting salaries depending on what studied. Medicine and dentistry the most by far
47% of graduates in low skilled jobs by definition carry no premium
Debt is increasing but many grads now see minimal (history, philosophy etc) or even negative (media studies etc) monetary returns from their degrees
Funding
It’s not 27k its 27k + inflation + maintenance loans + over drafts/other loans + crippling compound interest = 50k+
Most grads will not repay their loans
Billions taken away from NHS, defence, social care, policing etc and invested in students who add little value to society
Taxpayers face an enormous liability for unpaid loans
Big gap between maintenance loan and actual money need resulting in using family funds money they simply don’t have and almost normal to have to result to prostitution
Students number are likely to peak then decline resulting in unis will facing substantial funding gap threatening many with bankruptcy
Grads will have reduced disposal income mean that young adults less able to move away from home, running a car, getting house, family, delayed or prevented
Only one in 10 people grads since 2001 own their home with 58% saying unable to purchase because of their debts
Mental health
Being a student is less enjoyable and more stressful than previously due to Due to massive debt, no low employment prospects. Increase in student numbers alienating and isolating
Student mental health found a rapid increase in demand for counselling
Suicide rate of students increase by 56% in ten years to 2016 over taking the suicide rate for young people in general population for first time
All on point and an accurate image of the current scenario..
Realistically..
- There should be fewer full universities (only the ones that have consistently placed grads into desirable career paths and produced strong academics) and more specialist institutes. Those universities can then increase their intake/size a bit to capture more of the market.
- Ex-polys are largely way too bloated and should be culled down to only teaching/researching the subjects they are strong in/that place grads into decent jobs.
- There should also be more vocational institutes to prepare folks for lower level white collar jobs.
- Niche strong research departments in less well known universities should be spun out into research institutes
- More apprenticeships and degree apprenticeships from both SMEs and mid-market/large cap companies
- More MOOCs, private providers and online courses for people who want to learn more about random academic material but don't have the necessary profile (yet) to get into a legit university or specialist institute
Original post by username4288010
Mental health
Being a student is less enjoyable and more stressful than previously due to Due to massive debt, no low employment prospects. Increase in student numbers alienating and isolating
Student mental health found a rapid increase in demand for counselling
Suicide rate of students increase by 56% in ten years to 2016 over taking the suicide rate for young people in general population for first time
Mental health
Being a student is less enjoyable and more stressful than previously due to Due to massive debt, no low employment prospects. Increase in student numbers alienating and isolating
Student mental health found a rapid increase in demand for counselling
Suicide rate of students increase by 56% in ten years to 2016 over taking the suicide rate for young people in general population for first time
Terrific post! The part about mental health is rather alarming though, isn't it? -- I would posit that uni stress is somewhat due also to the compression that occurs from semesterisation. Plus having 'dumbed down' the coursework may make studies seem even more pointless. That is, certain topics here about quitting uni or struggling at uni etc all seem to involve 'exam stress' and 'assessment stress', in addition to 'life stress'. Exams, assessments, and life, alone seem to be manageable, but it's the combination of these things all added up in a brief exam period, is what seems to be the issue. Too much too soon.
The vast majority of essays students are made to write are quite pointless and nonsensical and they most definitely won't be read by anyone apart from the marker, and the amount of effort students have to go through to jump through hoops is quite pointless and exhausting.
Also, at the higher masters / post graduate level, the very notion behind 'thesis' and 'anti-thesis' is rather silly and nonsensical, childish really. Then, a 'synthesis' is arrived at, which is supposed to make everything OK. Surely that alone would drive anyone mad!
It could be argued that university is a great lie, a deceitful institution that encourages dialogue between liars.Also, universities were established to teach the 'one truth' (uni-veritas) being God, where Oxford and Cambridge and most of the great universities around the world were founded on a theology department, and mandated students to study theology before being granted graduation... But these departments have long been ejected from the system, and I would argue that this when problems started to arise within unis, knowledge capital, and society at large intellectually. 'And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient' (Romans 1:28).
However, I suppose if one were to see unis more cynically, that they're merely places for one to send a 'signal' to employers, one would be less disappointed. Sad, but true:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/a-university-degree-is-a-signal-coming-through-loud-and-clear-to-employers-a6873881.html
Original post by username4288010
silence cos its true but no one is man enough to admit it. i am man enough i went to graduated and the moment i got my certificate i realised i fcked up the worst decision i ever made
Why do you think you fcked up the worst decision ever made ?
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