What's the big deal? Watch

Obolinda
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If someone chooses to identify as something outside of male or female. I get that your allowed to criticise their beliefs but at the end of the day it doesn't really affect you, they don't deserve the bullying and harassment they receive. I mean I get there is no scientific backing on it, not because scientists concluded it doesn't exist rather lack of study.

Lot of ppl's objections is that it's based on a feeling which makes total sense, there is no objectivity in this. Although I mostly hear this from religious ppl who's whole faith is based on a feeling that God exists, religion has much more negative impacts but nobody seems to have a problem with respecting their belief.

Criticism is fine don't get me wrong but calling somebody "mentally backward" because they are "gender fluid" or whatever is not constructive at all.
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xoxAngel_Kxox
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I've always said as long as people's choices aren't hurting anyone they can do what they want - even if it's something other people don't particularly understand. What I hate is when people try to force their life choices down your throat (I had a friend who I loved to bits, but it's all he talked about), or when they assume that whenever people are mean to them it's because of their unusual life choice or state of mind, when in actual fact it's because they're complete idiots in other ways.
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Obolinda
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esralled
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The problem is that people don't have a sense of identity, so they create terms to stand out in a world where image is everything. Before, you would experience the same things because everyone does. Now, everything needs a label - "genderfluid", "demisexual", "transracial", whatever.

If someone wants to wallow in their own delusions, that's fine - there will only ever be two genders, but people can believe whatever they want.

When you have to accept child beauty pageants and child drag queens, other wise you're an eViL tRaNsPhObE, then there starts to be an issue.
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tazarooni89
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People can identify as whatever they like; it doesn’t affect anyone else. However it does become a problem when they start trying to force other people to recognise those identities and, in particular, expect different treatment on the basis of those identities.

When it is possible to get kicked out of a classroom, lose your job or in some cases even be guilty of a crime for “misgendering” someone or failing to agree with their chosen identity, that’s left-wing extremism gone too far.
Last edited by tazarooni89; 10 months ago
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ByEeek
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(Original post by esralled)
The problem is that people don't have a sense of identity, so they create terms to stand out in a world where image is everything.
Not at all. People do have a sense of identity. And it is an identity you don't understand so you tell them they are a problem. They are not a problem, nor is their identity. What is a problem is your lack of understanding and empathy. They are doing no harm to you. Why are they a problem?
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Axiomasher
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Attacking trans people is the current vogue for bigots it seems. A person asking to be referred to as 'male' or 'female' because of how they identify themselves is hardly a thing to get angry about, unless you're one of those 'fashionable' bigots in which case you can whine on about it endlessly at TSR.

In other news - the planet is dying.
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jason0597
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I think it goes too far when people have SRS. Dilation itself is a very chilling thought. It's literally a wound that people deliberately keep open.
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Axiomasher
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(Original post by Punch A Goat)
I know this is TSR but I have literally never encountered anyone who whinges as much as you do.
Yeah but whinging is so much cooler than whining.
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Obolinda
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(Original post by Axiomasher)
Yeah but whinging is so much cooler than whining.
Lol
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esralled
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(Original post by ByEeek)
And it is an identity you don't understand so you tell them they are a problem.
Proving my point exactly.

I never said transgenders are a problem. I said sexualising children is a problem, which has become more prominent with the acceptance of transgenderism and homosexuality. Don't you think that sexualising children is wrong?
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ByEeek
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(Original post by esralled)
Don't you think that sexualising children is wrong?
Absolutely. Does my nut in that boys are expected to play with cars and anything blue whereas girls are required to be pink and pathetic.

We should be allowing children to follow their own path towards making their own identify rather than forcing blue or pink on them based solely on whether they pop out of the womb with a willy or not.
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esralled
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Absolutely. Does my nut in that boys are expected to play with cars and anything blue whereas girls are required to be pink and pathetic.

We should be allowing children to follow their own path towards making their own identify rather than forcing blue or pink on them based solely on whether they pop out of the womb with a willy or not.
Why though? If you have a penis you're a man; there's nothing wrong with giving boys toys that are meant for boys, and girls toys that are meant for girls. Until they're teenagers - at least - they're not going to know anything about transgenderism
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ByEeek
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(Original post by esralled)
Why though? If you have a penis you're a man; there's nothing wrong with giving boys toys that are meant for boys, and girls toys that are meant for girls. Until they're teenagers - at least - they're not going to know anything about transgenderism
Why? Why can't boys play with dolls and girls play with cars. Just what exactly is it about the penis that qualifies you to be a mechanic? FFS! And you wonder why so many teenage girls have a lack of confidence?

Your attitude is partly responsible for the gender pay gap. Not because girls naturally choose low paid work, but because society (in the way you have voiced) dictates that they are only worthy of domestic type roles. Complete rubbish.
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tazarooni89
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Your attitude is partly responsible for the gender pay gap. Not because girls naturally choose low paid work, but because society (in the way you have voiced) dictates that they are only worthy of domestic type roles. Complete rubbish.
What is the evidence for that though? Where is the study that demonstrates that a significant number of women forego careers that they are otherwise inclined towards and suited to, for no other reason than to fulfil a gender stereotype?

Personally, I’ve never seen any way in which society tells girls that they are “unworthy” to become waste collectors or sewage workers. I’ve also never seen any toys aimed at boys which would encourage them to become either. I’ve also never seen any way in which society tells boys that they are “unworthy” to become librarians, and as far as I’m aware, children of both genders are heavily encouraged to read books. But for some reason, girls are far less likely to choose to become waste collectors or sewage workers than boys, and vice-versa for librarians. Why?


I don't think toy companies are responsible for stereotyping boys and girls and encouraging them into one career or another. They don't have any sexist agenda - they simply exist to sell as many toys as possible. I think it is the other way round: they market toy cars to boys and dolls to girls because these are the demographics that are already more likely to buy those products in the first place. If toy cars were the sort of product that fly off the shelves when they are marketed towards girls, I think the toy companies would have figured this out by now.

Every society in the world has some sense of differing inclinations and roles between men and women, not just ours. And they are very similar in each case. (In fact, a large proportion of other species in the world have this too). It is to be naturally expected; we have evolved from cave people living millions of years ago, where the physical differences between men and women (in terms of strength and childbirth) would have had an extremely significant impact on what sort of societal roles they were best suited for. It should come as no surprise that their natural inclinations still differ today, given how slow a process evolution is.
Last edited by tazarooni89; 10 months ago
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ByEeek
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(Original post by tazarooni89)
What is the evidence for that though? Where is the study that demonstrates that a significant number of women forego careers that they are otherwise inclined towards and suited to, for no other reason than to fulfil a gender stereotype?

Personally, I’ve never seen any way in which society tells girls that they are “unworthy” to become waste collectors or sewage workers. I’ve also never seen any toys aimed at boys which would encourage them to become either. I’ve also never seen any way in which society tells boys that they are “unworthy” to become librarians, and as far as I’m aware, children of both genders are heavily encouraged to read books. But for some reason, girls are far less likely to choose to become waste collectors or sewage workers than boys, and vice-versa for librarians. Why?
Have a look on the video on this page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05d9kmg

It is a shame that the whole series is no longer available, but the BBC ran a study in a primary school of 8-year olds and yes - all bar one girls when questioned said boys were better than girls. And this at an age when physiologically, developmentally and cognitively, there are no differences whatsoever. So you tell me - why do girls think boys are better when there is no evidence to support their assertion?
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tazarooni89
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Have a look on the video on this page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05d9kmg

It is a shame that the whole series is no longer available, but the BBC ran a study in a primary school of 8-year olds and yes - all bar one girls when questioned said boys were better than girls. And this at an age when physiologically, developmentally and cognitively, there are no differences whatsoever. So you tell me - why do girls think boys are better when there is no evidence to support their assertion?
It would help if there were some context available here. How many girls were there in this class? Is this one primary school class a large enough sample size to be representative of all children across the country? Is this documented anywhere, or are we just taking the presenter's word for it? And "better" at what/in what way, exactly?

And even if it's true that the majority of 8 year old girls believe that boys are just "better" than girls in general, why should we attribute this to the different sorts of toys that are marketed towards them? Who says playing with toy cards is "better" than playing with dolls, or that being a mechanic is "better" than being in a childcare profession?

Indeed, why is it that the majority of restaurant and hotel chefs (about 80%) are male, when pretty much every child's kitchen play set is marketed towards girls?

You might expect that there would be a link between what toys are marketed towards boys vs girls, and what they end up choosing to do later on in life; but I'm just not seeing any evidence for it. I mean, transgender people are often so insistent that they were "born that way" (preferring things that are stereo-typically associated with the opposite gender from that assigned at birth); why do we assume that the same is not also true of everyone else i.e. that they are just more naturally inclined to one type of activity than another?
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ByEeek
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(Original post by tazarooni89)
And even if it's true that the majority of 8 year old girls believe that boys are just "better" than girls in general, why should we attribute this to the different sorts of toys that are marketed towards them? Who says playing with toy cards is "better" than playing with dolls, or that being a mechanic is "better" than being in a childcare profession?
Because we dress girls in pink and tell them they are pretty. We dress boys up in blue and tell them they are clever and brave. But at the same time, we tell boys that boys don't cry and as a result of that, boys struggle to express their emotions and that often expresses itself in the form of violence. By the way - this is nothing new - it is all pretty well documented stuff.

So by telling girls they are pretty we are also subliminally telling them that they are lesser to boys. And when you look in society this is more or less what we have. Women in mainly domestic roles and men in all the leadership positions. There is no difference between men and women cognitively so you tell me, why is this the way - and please don't say "because that is what women choose".
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esralled
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Why? Why can't boys play with dolls and girls play with cars. Just what exactly is it about the penis that qualifies you to be a mechanic? FFS! And you wonder why so many teenage girls have a lack of confidence?

Your attitude is partly responsible for the gender pay gap. Not because girls naturally choose low paid work, but because society (in the way you have voiced) dictates that they are only worthy of domestic type roles. Complete rubbish.
1) They can, they just don't want to, and you shouldn't force it on them. And it's not the penis, it's the testicles - specifically, testosterone and a lack of oestrogen. I'm sorry that basic human biology gets in the way of your precious feelings

2) Not once have I ever said women should stay in domestic roles. You're getting angry at things I haven't said.

3) There is no gender pay gap.
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Obolinda
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(Original post by tazarooni89)
You might expect that there would be a link between what toys are marketed towards boys vs girls, and what they end up choosing to do later on in life; but I'm just not seeing any evidence for it. I mean, transgender people are often so insistent that they were "born that way" (preferring things that are stereo-typically associated with the opposite gender from that assigned at birth); why do we assume that the same is not also true of everyone else i.e. that they are just more naturally inclined to one type of activity than another?
I've seen some masculine trans female. It's her gender dysphoria that caused her a lot of discomfort being a "man".
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