Oxford Physics without further maths.

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Nihilisticb*tch
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Okay so basically I do 4 A levels (maths, physics, chemistry and biology) and I have decided I want to do a degree in physics. The only problem is that I don't have further maths because at the time I chose my A levels I didn't know that I wanted to do physics. Further maths is only really explicitly required for maths degrees and I knew I didn't want to do a maths degree so I didn't take it. I have never struggled with maths at all and I'm naturally quite good at it so I don't think I'd find it too hard to pick up. It isn't required for physics at any uni I've looked at however I am worried that not having further maths will hinder my (already slim) chances of getting in. I plan on self studying a lot of the further maths content because you need some of it for the PAT but I am mainly concerned that not having the exam will hinder my chances. I've heard of people getting in without further maths but I've also heard of people being told that they really want you to have done further maths so I don't know what to believe tbh. I haven't got the option to do AS further maths and I can't afford to do further maths as a private candidate (an option I have considered).
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Admit-One
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FM is not an essential subject for Physics at Oxford. They state explicitly that it might help but it’s not a requirement for consideration:

“Further Mathematics can be helpful to candidates in completing this course, although this is not required for admission.”

Concentrate on getting good results in the subjects that you are taking, rather than worrying about how you should’ve taken a different subject combination based on word of mouth.
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Nihilisticb*tch
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(Original post by Admit-One)
FM is not an essential subject for Physics at Oxford. They state explicitly that it might help but it’s not a requirement for consideration:

“Further Mathematics can be helpful to candidates in completing this course, although this is not required for admission.”

Concentrate on getting good results in the subjects that you are taking, rather than worrying about how you should’ve taken a different subject combination based on word of mouth.
Okay I will. Thanks for the advice
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czardasz
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Nihilisticb*tch
It shouldn’t make that much of a difference up until interview, as generally the only way to get an interview is a high enough score on the PAT, no your personal statement or subjects studies as long as you fulfil the requirements which are only Maths and Physics
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seanladd12
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you need it or you will die
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Nihilisticb*tch
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(Original post by Mikolaj1109)
Nihilisticb*tch
It shouldn’t make that much of a difference up until interview, as generally the only way to get an interview is a high enough score on the PAT, no your personal statement or subjects studies as long as you fulfil the requirements which are only Maths and Physics
I've heard the PAT contains some further maths stuff on it so I'll have to learn that anyway. I think the best answer is to self study as much further maths as possible. As a side question, do you know of any popular science books that can teach me further maths content?
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Nihilisticb*tch
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(Original post by seanladd12)
you need it or you will die
Guess I'll have to die then 🤷🏼*♀️
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bingbong654
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Universities are practically crying out for further maths in respect to physics. Most waste at least a year teaching undergraduates how to do differential equations. You cannot understand university physics without further maths. In regards to Oxford, they will want to teach you hard physics quickly. Thus you will need to familiarise yourself with the further maths before going. From an admissions perspective, Oxford really don't analyse you that much early on. If you pass the PAT then you are good enough to do further maths. Then you go to an interview. Again you will do some maths and if you impress then great.
I know somebody who does the same subjects and is really good at physics. She would have done well in a level further maths and got an A*
My point is that you won't be discriminated for not being a maths genius right now - but you must have the potential to become a maths genius. This can be shown through the PAT and interview. You won't need further maths knowledge for PAT or interview. Thus, if you were good enough to do further maths but just didn't have the time, you will be fine. The system is well thought through! But you will need to catch up over the summer once you get an offer because otherwise your first year will be a nightmare!
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bingbong654
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Oxford are fully aware that in some schools there simply is not the expertise to offer Further Maths. They do not wish to loose out on applicants from these schools. But really if you are good enough for oxford physics, you should be able to do further maths with your eyes closed.
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Nihilisticb*tch
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(Original post by bingbong654)
Universities are practically crying out for further maths in respect to physics. Most waste at least a year teaching undergraduates how to do differential equations. You cannot understand university physics without further maths. In regards to Oxford, they will want to teach you hard physics quickly. Thus you will need to familiarise yourself with the further maths before going. From an admissions perspective, Oxford really don't analyse you that much early on. If you pass the PAT then you are good enough to do further maths. Then you go to an interview. Again you will do some maths and if you impress then great.
I know somebody who does the same subjects and is really good at physics. She would have done well in a level further maths and got an A*
My point is that you won't be discriminated for not being a maths genius right now - but you must have the potential to become a maths genius. This can be shown through the PAT and interview. You won't need further maths knowledge for PAT or interview. Thus, if you were good enough to do further maths but just didn't have the time, you will be fine. The system is well thought through! But you will need to catch up over the summer once you get an offer because otherwise your first year will be a nightmare!
Okay thanks for the very rational advice lol. I am not at all someone who struggles with maths. I got a grade 9 at gcse with no revision (I'm not bragging about having done no revision but it does illustrate the point). I know GCSE is different but yeah I have never had any problems with maths so I'm certain I would have been good enough to do further maths and I think I will be able to prove that. Whichever university I was going to I would definitely learn further maths over summer. I really enjoy challenging maths which begs the question as to why I didn't do further maths but as I have said I also like biology so I made the decision because if I didn't do biology I would be leaving biology completely whereas not doing further maths isn't leaving maths completely (if that makes sense). I've heard they cover further maths content but really quickly so I might find it hard to keep up if I don't do extra work beforehand.
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czardasz
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I’m in a very similar position, as I am wanting to apply next year for physics at oxford but i due to a timetable clash, i cant do fm in y12 so i am self teaching the entire A level syllabus this year, to join the fm class next year, with my school being aware of this. This is also the way my school teaches fm. Right now i am studying Maths, Physics, Chemistry and German, and will complete further math a level next year
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Nihilisticb*tch
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(Original post by Mikolaj1109)
I’m in a very similar position, as I am wanting to apply next year for physics at oxford but i due to a timetable clash, i cant do fm in y12 so i am self teaching the entire A level syllabus this year, to join the fm class next year, with my school being aware of this. This is also the way my school teaches fm. Right now i am studying Maths, Physics, Chemistry and German, and will complete further math a level next year
I don't think my school would let me do that as I already do 4 A levels and they're really touchy about people doing 4 nevermind 5 lol even if it's self studied. I think the best option for me would be to teach myself all of A level maths asap and then move on to further maths.
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username4313572
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(Original post by Nihilisticb*tch)
Okay so basically I do 4 A levels (maths, physics, chemistry and biology) and I have decided I want to do a degree in physics. The only problem is that I don't have further maths because at the time I chose my A levels I didn't know that I wanted to do physics. Further maths is only really explicitly required for maths degrees and I knew I didn't want to do a maths degree so I didn't take it. I have never struggled with maths at all and I'm naturally quite good at it so I don't think I'd find it too hard to pick up. It isn't required for physics at any uni I've looked at however I am worried that not having further maths will hinder my (already slim) chances of getting in. I plan on self studying a lot of the further maths content because you need some of it for the PAT but I am mainly concerned that not having the exam will hinder my chances. I've heard of people getting in without further maths but I've also heard of people being told that they really want you to have done further maths so I don't know what to believe tbh. I haven't got the option to do AS further maths and I can't afford to do further maths as a private candidate (an option I have considered).
Unless it says it's required then it's not a problem.
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czardasz
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Nihilisticb*tch
Yeah, that would be one way round it, my school is a high achieving grammar and i was like 1st/2nd in gcses so they dont mind me doing 5 at all, and let anyone who got a 7.5 average do 4. I’m also not the only one doing 5
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bingbong654
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(Original post by Mikolaj1109)
I’m in a very similar position, as I am wanting to apply next year for physics at oxford but i due to a timetable clash, i cant do fm in y12 so i am self teaching the entire A level syllabus this year, to join the fm class next year, with my school being aware of this. This is also the way my school teaches fm. Right now i am studying Maths, Physics, Chemistry and German, and will complete further math a level next year
This genuinely saddens me
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czardasz
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bingbong654
Why?
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bingbong654
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I don't think it's fair that some people have access to Further Maths and others have to teach it to themselves.
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bingbong654
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(Original post by Nihilisticb*tch)
Okay thanks for the very rational advice lol. I am not at all someone who struggles with maths. I got a grade 9 at gcse with no revision (I'm not bragging about having done no revision but it does illustrate the point). I know GCSE is different but yeah I have never had any problems with maths so I'm certain I would have been good enough to do further maths and I think I will be able to prove that. Whichever university I was going to I would definitely learn further maths over summer. I really enjoy challenging maths which begs the question as to why I didn't do further maths but as I have said I also like biology so I made the decision because if I didn't do biology I would be leaving biology completely whereas not doing further maths isn't leaving maths completely (if that makes sense). I've heard they cover further maths content but really quickly so I might find it hard to keep up if I don't do extra work beforehand.
Yeah
The only disadvantage I see it the PAT. It covers the A level syllabus. The problem is that the only people that have finished the single maths syllabus is further mathematicians!
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czardasz
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bingbong654
I agree its unfair that not everyone can do further maths, but thats down to their school’s facilities and is generally combatted by the further maths network, which allows those whose school doesn’t offer further maths, to do further maths albeit outside of school. This is unfair, but also why unis never require further maths officially as not every school can offer it. In my situation i am self teaching as i chose to do German, in which im in year 13 so im finishing my alevel when im in year 12, so i only have to self teach for 1 year.
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bingbong654
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(Original post by Mikolaj1109)
bingbong654
I agree its unfair that not everyone can do further maths, but thats down to their school’s facilities and is generally combatted by the further maths network, which allows those whose school doesn’t offer further maths, to do further maths albeit outside of school. This is unfair, but also why unis never require further maths officially as not every school can offer it. In my situation i am self teaching as i chose to do German, in which im in year 13 so im finishing my alevel when im in year 12, so i only have to self teach for 1 year.
Sure. You can understand it though can't you. Why would someone who is clever enough to teach further maths take a salary of 30,000 a year when they could be earning tripple that in banking or product development?
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