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69 year old man identifies as a 49 year old man

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Reply 60
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Eh? Are you seriously claiming that gender dysphoria isn't a medical condition? (Also, the WHO classes it as a sexual development disorder, not a mental one).


Whatever, it's a "medical" condition that wasn't recognised a while ago just like "age dysphoria" will be recognised in few decades
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Eh? Are you seriously claiming that gender dysphoria isn't a medical condition? (Also, the WHO classes it as a sexual development disorder, not a mental one).

Things have been rejected and then accepted for decades.

There was a time homosexuals were lynched and killed for being homosexual. There was a time when it was absurd to be trans. Now, these have been accepted.
Original post by e^iĻ€
Whatever, it's a "medical" condition that wasn't recognised a while ago just like "age dysphoria" will be recognised in few decades


No, it's not a "medical" condition (as if that weren't an obvious way of dismissing it), it's just a medical condition. Your ignorance doesn't change facts.

Except age and gender are self evidently not comparable. Gender and sex are a continuum of genetic, phenotypic, psychological and sociological factors which is then assigned by a quick judgement on external genitalia by a doctor at birth - obviously while trying to reduce a complex aspect of a person to a snap, reductive judgement we can occasionally get it wrong. Age (as applied in life) is not an aspect of a person, it's a measurement of time since birth.
Reply 63
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
No, it's not a "medical" condition (as if that weren't an obvious way of dismissing it), it's just a medical condition. Your ignorance doesn't change facts.

Except age and gender are self evidently not comparable. Gender and sex are a continuum of genetic, phenotypic, psychological and sociological factors which is then assigned by a quick judgement on external genitalia by a doctor at birth - obviously while trying to reduce a complex aspect of a person to a snap, reductive judgement we can occasionally get it wrong. Age (as applied in life) is not an aspect of a person, it's a measurement of time since birth.


Your arguement is still vague, they are comparable as that are both human defined things (the only universal truth is mathematics)

Using your logic people are not allowed to vote based on a number without considering all the other complexities involved.

People thought trans was absurd for many years, thse people are now labelled as "closed minded"

Are you saying we have now reached the point where we are as rational and open minded as possible and that age dysphoria will never be accepted?
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
No, it's not a "medical" condition (as if that weren't an obvious way of dismissing it), it's just a medical condition. Your ignorance doesn't change facts.

Except age and gender are self evidently not comparable. Gender and sex are a continuum of genetic, phenotypic, psychological and sociological factors which is then assigned by a quick judgement on external genitalia by a doctor at birth - obviously while trying to reduce a complex aspect of a person to a snap, reductive judgement we can occasionally get it wrong. Age (as applied in life) is not an aspect of a person, it's a measurement of time since birth.


This is just silly. Are you saying that you would not agree with age dysphoria until the ā€œexpertsā€ tell you to accept it??
Original post by e^iĻ€
Your arguement is still vague, they are comparable as that are both human defined things (the only universal truth is mathematics)


You could argue that if you had absolutely no intent of having an intelligent discussion or didn't have a clue what you're talking about, but obviously "defined by humans" is not a valid point of comparison


Using your logic people are not allowed to vote based on a number without considering all the other complexities involved.


If you don't know the first thing about logic maybe. If you were to actually follow the logic you'd understand that age is just a reference point against the calendar while gender is actually a complex aspect of our biology and psychology.


People thought trans was absurd for many years, thse people are now labelled as "closed minded"

Are you saying we have now reached the point where we are as rational and open minded as possible and that age dysphoria will never be accepted?


Given most people still seem to be openly transphobic (or transmisaic for those who want to try the etymologically unsound argument "I'm not afraid of trans people"), I'd argue they're not called close minded as much as they should be and society and tolerance can still progress. However, age dysphoria is nonsense, intended to be a parody of a genuine medical condition (gender dysphoria) because some people are just awful and revel in being so.

Original post by Wired_1800
This is just silly. Are you saying that you would not agree with age dysphoria until the ā€œexpertsā€ tell you to accept it??


I'm saying experts would laugh at your ridiculous suggestion that age dysphoria exists or would ever be accepted.
Why is it that right wing people seem to think acting like a prick .makes them look clever?
Original post by e^iĻ€
BBC News - Dutchman, 69, brings lawsuit to lower his age 20 years

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46133262

A statement from the guy in question;

"We live in a time when you can change your name and change your gender. Why can't I decide my own age?"

My personal views: This seems absurd to me but on the other hand it would be hypocritical to deny him if other exceptions like those made for transgender people. After all one could argue age is different from number of years lived just like gender is supposedly different from sex.

How do you feel about this?


[video]https://youtu.be/sFBOQzSk14c[/video]
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
I'm saying experts would laugh at your ridiculous suggestion that age dysphoria exists or would ever be accepted.

I think you are missing the point. The idea of gender dysphoria was laughed about. Many trans people were regarded as either stupid or with deep mental issues. Now, trans identity is the norm and those against acceptance are viewed as regressive imbeciles.

With that point, it makes logical sense for age dysphoria to become a thing. Obviously, not at this very minute, but with time it will become the norm.
Original post by mojojojo101
Why is it that right wing people seem to think acting like a prick .makes them look clever?

If his aim was to cause outrage, then he is a genius by all accounts.
Reply 70
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
I'm saying experts would laugh at your ridiculous suggestion that age dysphoria exists or would ever be accepted.


Yet again you have made a lot of statements that are not based on facts or logic. Experts didn't think gender dysphoria was a thing before 1980 (when it was published in the DSM). So I'm guessing gender dysphoria just didn't exist before 1980 then...

Ok so lets take my personal views out if this for a second.

It has been shown that human views change over time. homosexuality was once regarded as a capital crime and in fact still is in countries like Uganda. Things have changed and our society has become more tolerant. So why exactly can't you see age dysphoria becoming a thing? It would have been incomprehensible for people a few hundred years ago to think a man could become a woman and vice versa. It's quite arrogant of you to say it will never happen as you are saying we as humans (well the "progressive" ones at least) have reached our most rational open-minded. I bet homophobes (most people then) a hundred years ago thought they were progressive when women got the right it vote. just like those right now who think age dysphoria isn't a thing claim to be progressive because they embrace trans people.

You can make both age and gender seem as complex as you want. But ultimately the former is the number of years that you have lived (years is a human defined concept based on the natural observation of the period of the earth going around the sun) and the latter is the thing you were born as (another natural observation based on the shape of genitals)

Hard to know how genuine the guy in the article is but it's quite possible he does feel younger than he is and feels uncomfortable with the numbers society labels him with, just as a trans person does not feel comfortable with the label society has given them (note how these labels are both human defined but based on natural observance)

You have to be quite cynical to think the guy is attacking trans people and this is all a joke. I bet this is exactly the sort of discrimination that trans people faced a long time ago.

Please explain how age and gender are different?

Actually don't bother I know you'll just say gender is complex (without explaining why) and will then say age is just a number (despite the fact that the same logic can be used with both properties)
(edited 5 years ago)
if you identify as x years old then you are x years old

smh
Reply 72
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
You could argue that if you had absolutely no intent of having an intelligent discussion or didn't have a clue what you're talking about, but obviously "defined by humans" is not a valid point of comparison



If you don't know the first thing about logic maybe. If you were to actually follow the logic you'd understand that age is just a reference point against the calendar while gender is actually a complex aspect of our biology and psychology.



Given most people still seem to be openly transphobic (or transmisaic for those who want to try the etymologically unsound argument "I'm not afraid of trans people"), I'd argue they're not called close minded as much as they should be and society and tolerance can still progress. However, age dysphoria is nonsense, intended to be a parody of a genuine medical condition (gender dysphoria) because some people are just awful and revel in being so.



I'm saying experts would laugh at your ridiculous suggestion that age dysphoria exists or would ever be accepted.


Here is someone I found online who has age dysphoria

https://www.reddit.com/r/mentalhealth/comments/47tqd3/is_age_dysphoria_a_real_thing/

I really think the only reason trans is accepted nowdays is due to the amount of propaganda that has been forced upon us. It is natural to be hostile to people who dont confrom to normal behaviours (the degrees of hostility varies). The media obviously isnt pushing age dysphoria which is why you claim "it isnt a real thing" in a rather bigoted fashion
Reply 73
Original post by charco
[video]https://youtu.be/sFBOQzSk14c[/video]

Yep, we are living in a Monty Python sketch
Original post by e^iĻ€
There is no medical evidence for transgender a either? It's a mental illness and so cannot be categorised as either universally true or false.

Age is a human defined concept just like gender


I mean, there is, and research spanning many years. Until that's the same for age there's not really any argument here.
I identify as being 5,000 years old, someone give me a guiness world record for being the oldest man alive in history. :laugh::laugh:
Original post by shadowdweller
I mean, there is, and research spanning many years. Until that's the same for age there's not really any argument here.

When there is, then it will be a thing of the past. This is the point. The first stage is rejection until the ā€œexpertsā€ tell you how to think, then you accept it.
Reply 77
Original post by shadowdweller
I mean, there is, and research spanning many years. Until that's the same for age there's not really any argument here.


I mean the research is more surrounding the psychology of those with gender dysphoria, it doesn't dislodge that they are still biologically the sex they were born as as that cannot be undone.

The point I'm trying to make is that age dysphoria could definitely become a thing as it's logically the same as gender dysphoria and it would be arrogant to say that age dysphoria is absurd when the same was said of gender dysphoria a few decades ago (as another user says so)
Reply 78
'why not?' isn't a legal argument. does anyone know what the actual argument is? i googled it but couldn't find (please don't respond with 'because you can choose your gender', that's not an argument in law).

in OP's article -

'One of the judges wanted to know what would become of the 20 years that Mr Ratelband wanted to erase. "Who were your parents looking after then? Who was that little boy?"'

and...this is exactly why this case is a joke. you don't have to be a scientist to know that -- time is not a social construct; age is not a social construct. you can't choose your age because time is independent of you.

he says the reason for his lawsuit is because he so-call wants more opportunities in dating and work, that he feels discriminated against because of his age. we all know this reason is bologna, but pretending for a sec to believe him you can't be discriminated against 'in life in general'. there must be some law or policy or someone who acts discriminatory against you. please, someone tell me how this is going to trial? :frown:
why only 20 years? go down to 30, thats an age i'd like to stay at

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